What's A "real" Close?

[egg_uk]

cheers for the comments mob, i have been trying to a couple of tns attempts every workout but not any inverted which i think i will, and did you refer to yourself in the third person

[Teemu I]

Very. Look at Martin. He's done a 3.65 or 3.85 with both hands using the push handles against the knee, pull hand up to show parallel set t a ref very briefly then close the gripper very quickly style many use - only in competition. Miles away on a 4.

Many are so far away from the intended use that anything they say regarding a close is to be compared to someone claiming to be the greatest squatter ever with three inches of knee bend.

Is it true that pushing the handles against the knee is (or has) been allowed in some competitions? I never knew that.

[mbcx6pmw]

I don't think there's any rule about how you do the set is there? just that the ref has to see that the handles are no closer than the specified distance before you start the close.

[mobsterone]

One thing I'll say and that is in the UK Steve is the best with a gripper period!

Best I've seen. Can go from whatever distance, and slow if needed. This is TOTAL COMMAND of the implement!

Coming from David that's a compliment and a half. If I wasn't so immodest I'd blush ha ha

cheers for the comments mob, i have been trying to a couple of tns attempts every workout but not any inverted which i think i will, and did you refer to yourself in the third person

Err yes - a sign that it's all gone to my head...

Very. Look at Martin. He's done a 3.65 or 3.85 with both hands using the push handles against the knee, pull hand up to show parallel set t a ref very briefly then close the gripper very quickly style many use - only in competition. Miles away on a 4.

Many are so far away from the intended use that anything they say regarding a close is to be compared to someone claiming to be the greatest squatter ever with three inches of knee bend.

Is it true that pushing the handles against the knee is (or has) been allowed in some competitions? I never knew that.

I don't think there's any rule about how you do the set is there? just that the ref has to see that the handles are no closer than the specified distance before you start the close.

True in both posts. I've seen Martin and others use this method at both the Europeans I attended in Sweden.

[dimmers]

Great thread! Very interesting read.

I agree with a lot of what has been said, and it is very true that there are certain techniques that allow you to close bigger grippers than you could otherwise with TNS or NS, but that is fine for whatever the rules are for certain comps or certs etc etc

Only recently have i done a few vids of my gripper closes, and it's clear after watching them that i set the gripper too deep (something i didn't think i was doing). After trying only a small set with the same gripper i find it a completely different beast altogether!

I think for a lot of guys (me included) the tempation to move up a gripper is so great you tend to lose out on the benefits of really dominating an easier gripper. Maybe sticking with an easier gripper and perfecting TNS and CCS closes (as Steve mentioned) will be of more benefit in the long run, than simply moving up to a bigger gripper too soon - trying to close it by any means possible.

(the squat analogy is kinda spot on whoever first mentioned that one)

[Teemu I]

One thing I'll say and that is in the UK Steve is the best with a gripper period!

Best I've seen. Can go from whatever distance, and slow if needed. This is TOTAL COMMAND of the implement!

Coming from David that's a compliment and a half. If I wasn't so immodest I'd blush ha ha

cheers for the comments mob, i have been trying to a couple of tns attempts every workout but not any inverted which i think i will, and did you refer to yourself in the third person

Err yes - a sign that it's all gone to my head...

Very. Look at Martin. He's done a 3.65 or 3.85 with both hands using the push handles against the knee, pull hand up to show parallel set t a ref very briefly then close the gripper very quickly style many use - only in competition. Miles away on a 4.

Many are so far away from the intended use that anything they say regarding a close is to be compared to someone claiming to be the greatest squatter ever with three inches of knee bend.

Is it true that pushing the handles against the knee is (or has) been allowed in some competitions? I never knew that.

I don't think there's any rule about how you do the set is there? just that the ref has to see that the handles are no closer than the specified distance before you start the close.

True in both posts. I've seen Martin and others use this method at both the Europeans I attended in Sweden.

What's the point in that? Now nobody shouldn't misinterpret me, this has nothing to with Martin or anyone else personally. I just don't see how allowing setting the gripper anyway you can has much to do with testing hand strength. I see setting a hard gripper with your off hand as a much more hand strength related way. Isn't that what it's all supposed to be about?

Edited August 24, 2007 by Teemu I

[mobsterone]

True and why I raised the point. It is the setting of the gripper - be that using a hand and a knee etc that takes away anything worthy from the question at the top of this thread.

[Teemu I]

I'm just glad this was brought up. All the more reason for me to concentrate more on the wider stuff. I've seen what my training has produced so far, an imbalance between MMS strength and wide set strength and it needs to be fixed.

[David Horne]

Personally I think the use of grippers for hand strength is very much overated. I've made super gains in hand strength in periods where I haven't used a gripper for say 12 months.

However, I did notice in the 17 week training run-up to the GGC, that I gained hand strength from repping the grippers all with a credit card start (credit card in on each rep). This will now be the only way I will train using grippers, and by the way I was closing the #3 with my small hands, so it can be done.

David

[PowerHouse]

Has anybody CCS a legitimate #3 with 7" hands??

I think CCS is silly for me. I now use the widest set my hand allows(just being able to get the pinky on) for me that is around 1.5".

[lifesnotfair]

This might be a subject for another thread, but someone mentioned momentum.... yes, it's not the same when you set and immediately after letting go off the setting hand, you squeeze, as to making a pause and then shutting it, regardless of the deepness/width of the set, it's always harder to pause. Is there a benefit to pause? Should it be asked to pause in competitions, like they pause the bench pressers at the bottom before pressing up?

[The Mac]

If sets are allowed it is nearly impossible to judge a gripper close without using a pause.

Even with it can be difficult.

[Teemu I]

This might be a subject for another thread, but someone mentioned momentum.... yes, it's not the same when you set and immediately after letting go off the setting hand, you squeeze, as to making a pause and then shutting it, regardless of the deepness/width of the set, it's always harder to pause. Is there a benefit to pause? Should it be asked to pause in competitions, like they pause the bench pressers at the bottom before pressing up?

I brought the point about momentum up because that's what you see alot on the videos. Many of the MM-cert videos included. It is necessary to pause in the competition, would be too damn difficult to judge othervise.

[gumpster]

Damn I love this board! I've been reading more here than any forum in the 10 years that I've had internet access.

I was beginning to think lloyd80s was just trying to bait folks (trolling) into arguing over whatever topic he started...but in the end, I think good discussions have come out in his controversial threads. My thanks to lloyd80s for starting this and others, so that we all may share our views and learn from the guys who have been there and done that.

Back to the topic at hand - I bought my gripper after running across an article somewhere on the net and didn't know anything about "setting" a gripper. "Closing" a gripper seemed to be without confusion - make the handles touch, right? After getting my gripper and reading a lot on this board about the different certification requirements/training techniques my view on closes became clouded. Even after I learned where the sweet spot was in my hand for setting my gripper it was obvious I could never get it there without some sort of a "set"...a no-set would require even more strength due to the poor positioning. Even with my 8.25" hands I can't get my fingers around the handle with the palm handle in optimum position (the gripper has to be closed partially by some other means). Now I fully understand the complaints by those with smaller hands (I can't imagine trying to do an Ironmind CCS cert with 7" hands...seems near impossible). My personal opinion is that I think competitions should have some way of setting the grippers by means of a choker of some sort so that the handles are at the required distance (whatever that may be - parallel, 20mm, etc...CCS seems a bit too wide). Then everyone has to close the gripper using the TNS style, eliminating the set by the competitors. I think this would make the smaller handed guys happy as well. I have never competed in a grip competition so I'm just a noob but these are the views formed from what I have learned so far.

P.S. On a side note, I have an idea for making a closed gripper easier to determine. This involves a watch battery or two, a little wire, some sort of thin contact pad and a LED...each time the handles touch they complete the circuit and the LED lights up. I'll probably mod my gripper sometime to try this out. Knowing when the gripper is closed can be hard to determine especially when the person is shaking using maximum effort or their pinky is slipping off the end blocking the view. Would work good for training I think also - there would be no doubt if you held a gripper closed for 10 seconds.

[Scott Styles]

Gumpster, scroll down on this page for a similar idea: http://home.insight.rr.com/strongman/devices.html

[jad]

Even the smallest handed athletes can set a gripper just enough to get all their fingers on and still be a 'mile' away from MMS and closer.

Uhhhh......NO, unless you're using one of those silly IM pinch grip type gripper closes or you have a very different definition of "fingers on".

[superfeemiman]

Even the smallest handed athletes can set a gripper just enough to get all their fingers on and still be a 'mile' away from MMS and closer.

Uhhhh......NO, unless you're using one of those silly IM pinch grip type gripper closes or you have a very different definition of "fingers on".

Agreed about that IM pinch thing. Maybe it's me, but for some reason I don't understand how maneuvering my pinky upwards during the close and/or setting the handle close to my thumb is going to help develop greater crushing hand strength than using a deeper set? I don't think IM always thinks these things through.

Edited August 25, 2007 by superfeemiman

[jad]

Even the smallest handed athletes can set a gripper just enough to get all their fingers on and still be a 'mile' away from MMS and closer.

Uhhhh......NO, unless you're using one of those silly IM pinch grip type gripper closes or you have a very different definition of "fingers on".

Agreed about that IM pinch thing. Maybe it's me, but for some reason I don't understand how maneuvering my pinky upwards during the close and/or setting the handle close to my thumb is going to help develop greater crushing hand strength than using a deeper set? I don't think IM always thinks these things through.

Good stuff I think CCS or TNS training grippers is a great way for those without large hands to train their card tearing grip. Probably good for climbing too...heck anything where a thumbless pinch grip would be desired.

[superfeemiman]

Even the smallest handed athletes can set a gripper just enough to get all their fingers on and still be a 'mile' away from MMS and closer.

Uhhhh......NO, unless you're using one of those silly IM pinch grip type gripper closes or you have a very different definition of "fingers on".

Agreed about that IM pinch thing. Maybe it's me, but for some reason I don't understand how maneuvering my pinky upwards during the close and/or setting the handle close to my thumb is going to help develop greater crushing hand strength than using a deeper set? I don't think IM always thinks these things through.

Good stuff I think CCS or TNS training grippers is a great way for those without large hands to train their card tearing grip. Probably good for climbing too...heck anything where a thumbless pinch grip would be desired.

The grippers have many uses.

[Autolupus]

wot, like promoting hand strength, no really!

[superfeemiman]

wot, like promoting hand strength, no really!

What's this hand strength you speak of?

[nockowt1]

I'm somewhat fortunate because I can't set a gripper to save my life. I've always trained with a CCS or wider because I can't do it any other way. This is probably going to slow me down on closing harder grippers (I'm almost there on the 2.5), but I know once I do get around to closing the #3 I will have worked for it. My hands are somewhat small (7.25"), but I'm making it work. The only disadvantage for me is when it comes to pinching large objects.

[Bob Lipinski]

Allright, I guess I will relate this for the 100,000th time:

Not to brag, but I was certified in the 3 a few years ago, back when the gripboard was on ezboard. I naturally closed a gripper with more than a CCS set, because that is what I needed to get my hands on the gripper.

CCS or TNS are the new games in town. I did what I could to get my hand around the gripper before I knew it was called a "set", and nobody really thought it was weird back then.

[hab34buy]

My personal thoughts on the matter is that one needs to train for what their goal is for getting strong. If you are interested in the short range movement of parellel or even beyond and that is what motivates you to get strong then go for it... but not everyone should expect carryover to closes in other sets. But again, if that is what serves as your goal and motivation, then have at.

For me, my personal goal is for no set or near to no set closes, and that is my own training choice. Even though I have small hands (a little under 7.19") I really only like the feel of the full range no set close. Sure it takes alot of effort to slowly close the gripper to the point that my pinkie fits on the handle before I can actually do a crushing motion, but that is the goal and purpose of my personal training (and though I am still weak at grippers, I feel that eventually this method will work for me).

I truely think it is up to the person what a close is or isn't based off of what they are wanting to accomplish. Yet if one is going for certs, or wants to compare their strength to others, that is obviously when closing details are going to be very important . It's about what training gives you personally rounded strength and motivation I think. Just my thoughts... but I am new ~J

[Autolupus]

Closing a particular gripper shouldn't be the be all and end all! Progression, getting stronger should be the aim. A big gripper close is just a measure of how you have progressed, same as a bigger bend. Try and aim to get stronger rather than just close or bend the next!