What's A "real" Close?

[lloyd80s]

Hi,

I'm in training to get the #3 closed and am just wondering,at what point you should say that you've closed a gripper? I want to be able to TNS or CCS the #3 but I'm a while from doing that. At the moment I'm using a deep set to try and get it closed.

It's been my goal since I first saw Captains Of Crush to close a #3 and #4. I'm now very near the #3. What I want to know is what would most of you say is a close. I mean.....most of us could grab a #3 and slam it shut with a "little press on the knee" eh?? But you can't say you've closed it really....can you? Also let's say a "deep set", just how deep can a set be on a close?

The main reason I'm asking you guys this is because I feel that to say you've closed a gripper it should be with a small set. I've seen lots of videos on youtube with people saying that they close a #1, #2 or #3 but when you see the set, it's so deep that the gripper handles are only about an inch apart.

Like I say my aim is to do it with a ccs or tns and then I'll be happy that I've done it but in general it'd be nice to hear what all of you guys would be enough to say you've close it?

Can everyone be honest with me on this

Thanks

[maidenfan]

Whats your goal with the gripper? MMS? IM cert? If so, a close it what their rules say. Other than that, call whatever you want a close, because it really doesnt matter.

[Alawadhi]

For me it's when you can get your pinkie (sp?) in th right positionc(just around the handles).

[PowerHouse]

When the handles touch.

[superfeemiman]

Exactly what PowerHouse said. I think that most people will expect when you say you "closed" a gripper and do not specify any further that it isn't any deeper than a parallel set or at the most a half-inch set, but most literally, all a close means is that you made the handles touch.

[jad]

totally depends on who you ask and when you ask them

[tja]

I'd be happy with a parallel set and it's the standard with the Mash Monster certs. I like the fact that it evens out the hand size advantage quite well.

[climber511]

I'd say a close is when you touch the handles IN THE MANNER YOU CHOOSE - after all, this is all about YOUR close, not someone elses!

[lifesnotfair]

To me, it's when you use the widest possible set, without making it ridiculous. CCS is ridiculous for my hand, I should post a picture one day, even with the gripper very far in my palm, I can't get my pinky and BARELY get the tip of my other fingers... just don't fool yourself into thinking that MMS is the widest you can do, because even with my short hands and fingers I know I have no excuse not to use a set bigger than just 3/4" (which I think is parallel). I think I'd be happy with a gripper if I can close it from a 1.5", give or take a fraction.

Edited August 24, 2007 by lifesnotfair

[hab34buy]

I'd say a close is when you touch the handles IN THE MANNER YOU CHOOSE - after all, this is all about YOUR close, not someone elses!

Well said, and totally agree

[mobsterone]

But wrong, wrong wrong.

[The Mac]

I appreciate the point about the set being what you need (ie. parallel for MM etc is fine if that is what floats your boat), but to be really honest, at the risk of being ridiculously hard line on this, TNS. The challenge is to shut the gripper from open to close with one hand. I think you would have to have TINY hands to not be able to get a TNS on the average gripper.

But hey, I'm sure we've been through all of this before.

[TelegraphKey]

imo the first baby step would be to hold the handles closed after assisting them shut in any manner then removing the assistance. But ultimate probably is TNS

[Teemu I]

In my opinion the most commonly used set in the competition would qualify as a "real" close. It's parallel if I'm correct. But I do agree, that the most satisfying way to close a gripper is NS or TNS (practically the same thing IMO). It took more work for me to no set all my #3's than it took to MMS my 3,28 Elite. I feel it is good to incorporate all the styles in to your training.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Teemu I

[mobsterone]

I appreciate the point about the set being what you need (ie. parallel for MM etc is fine if that is what floats your boat), but to be really honest, at the risk of being ridiculously hard line on this, TNS. The challenge is to shut the gripper from open to close with one hand. I think you would have to have TINY hands to not be able to get a TNS on the average gripper.

But hey, I'm sure we've been through all of this before.

We have. People are looking to get the handles to touch anyway possible and choose to cert in the scheme that suits this. For anyone who considers themselves vaguely interested in grip strength to walk into Walmart et al and pick up a typical store type gripper and MMS or worse would be laughed right off this site. Yet we grand tons of kudos to those doing so with CoC2 to CoC3 strength grippers - whatever make.

I'm the first to appreciate that there are techniques we use - setting the thumb, getting the pinkie on - and that's just with TNS. But to claim that getting the hand however we like - with silly sets - so that the handles touch is pathetic in the extreme and missing the whole point of grippers at the least.

Do not move so far away from why you picked up and became interested in grippers and grip work in general. It was to develop open handed and closed handed strength. Even the smallest handed athletes can set a gripper just enough to get all their fingers on and still be a 'mile' away from MMS and closer. As above it would be ridiculous to do any setting of the weaker grippers yet we (and I've met some of these guys) throw pundit after pundit at guys setting the SE and CoC 4 to a 1/4 inch and blow enough smoke up their behinds to set the poor buggers on fire claiming they will CCS a 4 'any day now'.

Regarding competition sets - they were introduced to provide a standard depth to work from. In the same way that squat stands and bench uprights can be adjusted for height and arm length then using the paralell or 20mm set evens things out. It is the 'fair bar' of the gripping world. But one small mans MMS is a massive difference for them when using a CCS. No big handed men are using these sets like Nathan Holle said - start from that and work outwards - no - everyone seems to be starting from that and staying with it just adding harder grippers.

We are days away from a GB member putting a gripper in a vice getting their hands on it and removing it with 2mm between the handles and closing it and being elevated to something special when they'd actually be the most pathetic of us all. History has shown us (google if not sure) how many problems the suits, wraps and belts as well as poor refereeing has given Powerlifting - the squat (mono lifts, squat suits and depth issues) and bench (shirts, shirts, shirts and then arch, foot placement and hand spacing) yet the more we set the more we follow their pattern.

Try and remain faithful to the honesty of a TNS or CCS close.

[The Mac]

Fine post, Steve.

Something you see a lot is not just deep but what I call "explosive" sets - ie. the handles are set in motion with two hands and the final half inch is shut with one hand, all in the same motion.

[Teemu I]

Many good points there Steve. Makes you think.

[Teemu I]

Steve, apparently you train grippers strictly with wider than parallel sets. Do you train as deep as MMS at all, for example when there is a competition coming up? And in the competiton, when there's a parallel rule, do you even then set to the distance of 30-35 mm (as you say you do in training on the harder grippers in your training log)?

Edited August 24, 2007 by Teemu I

[Autolupus]

I just try to progress, bringing everything on from TNS to narrow set and choked. Getting stonger's the key but a close is just getting the handles to touch!

Otherwise it's just performing well enough within the set requirements, be that TNS or MMS!

...my narrow set's pretty poor!

Edited August 24, 2007 by Autolupus

[egg_uk]

a close is getting the handles to touch, and be able to tns it is to dominate the gripper. ive been thinking that i should work a little more on wider sets, as i generally just train mms, i seem to change what i do every time i hit a sticking point, and may just be approaching my next one. i have just been aiming to always close the next gripper rather than dominate the one im on, so my full range power isnt great, and i have zero power inverted, and as i want to be generally stronger it could be worth doing. does anyone think i should work on inverted closes, i know sam likes them?

[mobsterone]

Steve, apparently you train grippers strictly with wider than parallel sets. Do you train as deep as MMS at all, for example when there is a competition coming up? And in the competiton, when there's a parallel rule, do you even then set to the distance of 30-35 mm (as you say you do in training on the harder grippers in your training log)?

For competitions I use the competition set. With the last British many 'great gripper closers - woo hoo you're awesome etc' failed miserably because they had not practiced it. Dunkster gave me a 20mm square steel tube and I had a few sessions just getting the gripper between as a ref would want - probably 4.

[mobsterone]

a close is getting the handles to touch, and be able to tns it is to dominate the gripper. ive been thinking that i should work a little more on wider sets, as i generally just train mms, i seem to change what i do every time i hit a sticking point, and may just be approaching my next one. i have just been aiming to always close the next gripper rather than dominate the one im on, so my full range power isnt great, and i have zero power inverted, and as i want to be generally stronger it could be worth doing. does anyone think i should work on inverted closes, i know sam likes them?

In your sig line you have a series of targets. In reality and using Sam as a reference point you should ask your self what you want.

1. Do the set needed if using a cert scheme as your target
   
2. Ditto if training for competition
   
3. Does doing a harder gripper with an even closer set than before make my hands stronger
   
4. Does using sets on hard grippers mean that one day I'll be able to TNS a 4 or is my strength gonna be all in that fraction of an inch I use now.
   

It seems, by your own admission, you have no power except over anything but the small range of motion yet you are keen to ask Sam who trains in a similar manner whether or not to invert a gripper.

Why has Steve not lost a British Championships using a 20mm set for years? I've only been beaten inverted and on my left hand when we did strap holds since the first competition I entered (I think I lost the gripper portion then but not since). It isn't just having big hands but doing the 30-35mm or better 'sets' that has meant when I do set I win.

I'm not superhuman or some freak - I'm just patient. Those that have shut a 4 have something to teach us and using various techniques and sets isn't the best lesson we need to learn. Every single time a GB member has met a 4 closer they've said something like 'I was amazed at their hand power'. While they may have indeed set a gripper all have a good ability to demonstrate strength over a greater range.

[Teemu I]

Steve, apparently you train grippers strictly with wider than parallel sets. Do you train as deep as MMS at all, for example when there is a competition coming up? And in the competiton, when there's a parallel rule, do you even then set to the distance of 30-35 mm (as you say you do in training on the harder grippers in your training log)?

For competitions I use the competition set. With the last British many 'great gripper closers - woo hoo you're awesome etc' failed miserably because they had not practiced it. Dunkster gave me a 20mm square steel tube and I had a few sessions just getting the gripper between as a ref would want - probably 4.

OK, so I thought, thanks for the reply.

It makes heck of a lot difference when you have to properly show the set instead of just blasting through with momentum (the style that can be seen on lots of videos).

[mobsterone]

Very. Look at Martin. He's done a 3.65 or 3.85 with both hands using the push handles against the knee, pull hand up to show parallel set t a ref very briefly then close the gripper very quickly style many use - only in competition. Miles away on a 4.

Many are so far away from the intended use that anything they say regarding a close is to be compared to someone claiming to be the greatest squatter ever with three inches of knee bend.

[David Horne]

One thing I'll say and that is in the UK Steve is the best with a gripper period!

Best I've seen. Can go from whatever distance, and slow if needed. This is TOTAL COMMAND of the implement!