For Us Handstrength- First Order Of Business

[Bob Lipinski]

The first thing I will do is put up a general list of rules for grip strength competitions. We will discuss the rules for a week, then vote on points of debate. Voting will be limited to those who promote or compete in grip competitions.

Why is this important?

For a strength sport, people enjoy having comparisons with others. Having a common set of rules will help ensure that we can keep proper records. Also, this helps enforce the legitimacy of our sport, so that we do not end up with a farce like "Mike The Destroyer's" event masquerading as a legitmate contest. When asked why it is not, we will have a list of rules to point to.

This is not about me being the boss. It is about setting some standards and getting things done.

On to the General Competition rules. Please debate.

------------------------------------------

General Competition Guidelines

A competition recognized by US Handstrength should follow these general guidelines:

1. More than three events in the contest.

2. Over half of the events must be from the generalized list of grip lifts, and all events must have a strong emphasis on hand strength. The contest must test at least three of the following categories of handstrength- Wrist strength, Crushing, Supporting, and Pinching.

3. Competent and objective judging must be present.

4. No hook grip allowed.

5. Standard gym chalk allowed- No rosin, tacky, spray grip, etc.

6. No straps or wrist wraps allowed.

7. No more than 5 attempts allowed per event.

8. Each attempt can consist of a no longer than one minute period where the lifters may make as many attempts to lift the weight as they choose. This does not apply to timed events.

Recognized Grip Feats

Note- The following feats are the most generally recognized and popularly accepted. As other feats become popular or regularly used, the event list will be accordingly updated.

1. Crushing

-Hand Grippers- No set, Credit card set, or Parallel Set.

2. Supporting

-Olympic bar deadlift/hold (one or two handed)

-One Hand Dumbell Deadlift, Clean, or Snatch

-Revolving Handle lifts

-Double Overhand Deadlift

-Vertical Bar lifts (1" diameter is the usual standard)

-Ring lifts

4. Leverage lifts

-Brick Lifts

-Short Steel Bending (Bars under 7" of length)

-Sledge Hammer Leverage

8. Pinch Lifts

-Plate pinching, 1 and two handed

-Hub Lifts

-Block lifts (various manufactured implements)

-Block weight lifts

Single Event Contests:

Single event contests are recognized. These events can help promote grip sports by being attached to larger events such as strongman competitions or powerlifting meets. All rules (besides # and type of events) are applicable, and records for these contests will be held seperately.

Edited April 5, 2006 by Bob Lipinski

[gamidon]

The first thing I will do is put up a general list of rules for grip strength competitions. We will discuss the rules for a week, then vote on points of debate. Voting will be limited to those who promote or compete in grip competitions.

Why is this important?

For a strength sport, people enjoy having comparisons with others. Having a common set of rules will help ensure that we can keep proper records. Also, this helps enforce the legitimacy of our sport, so that we do not end up with a farce like "Mike The Destroyer's" event masquerading as a legitmate contest. When asked why it is not, we will have a list of rules to point to.

This is not about me being the boss. It is about setting some standards and getting things done.

On to the General Competition rules. Please debate.

------------------------------------------

General Competition Guidelines

A competition recognized by US Handstrength should follow these general guidelines:

1. More than three events in the contest.

2. Over half of the events must be from the generalized list of grip lifts, and all events must have a strong emphasis on hand strength. The contest must test at least three of the following categories of handstrength- Wrist strength, Crushing, Supporting, and Pinching.

3. Competent and objective judging must be present.

4. No hook grip allowed.

5. Standard gym chalk allowed- No rosin, tacky, spray grip, etc.

6. No straps or wrist wraps allowed.

7. No more than 5 attempts allowed per event.

8. Each attempt can consist of a no longer than one minute period where the lifters may make as many attempts to lift the weight as they choose. This does not apply to timed events.

Recognized Grip Feats

Note- The following feats are the most generally recognized and popularly accepted. As other feats become popular or regularly used, the event list will be accordingly updated.

1. Crushing

-Hand Grippers- No set, Credit card set, or Parallel Set.

2. Supporting

-Olympic bar deadlift/hold (one or two handed)

-One Hand Dumbell Deadlift, Clean, or Snatch

-Revolving Handle lifts

-Double Overhand Deadlift

-Vertical Bar lifts (1" diameter is the usual standard)

-Ring lifts

4. Leverage lifts

-Brick Lifts

-Short Steel Bending (Bars under 7" of length)

-Sledge Hammer Leverage

8. Pinch Lifts

-Plate pinching, 1 and two handed

-Hub Lifts

-Block lifts (various manufactured implements)

-Block weight lifts

Single Event Contests:

Single event contests are recognized. These events can help promote grip sports by being attached to larger events such as strongman competitions or powerlifting meets. All rules (besides # and type of events) are applicable, and records for these contests will be held seperately.

I think this is really good. It allows promoters to make their own decisions and provides a framework we can build off of. I Agree with it as it stands.

[madss]

Thats a nice starting point for contest. Is it going to be 5 attempts or standard 4 we have been doing?

[Bob Lipinski]

If that needs to be voted on, let's do it!

Seriously, these are not set in stone. I just tried to lay something out that was very inclusive.

We need your input Scott!

And sorry, that should read 4 attempts, it is a point I forgot to fix.

[davetps]

I generally run no more than 3 attemps, and usually not more than 45 sec per attempt and sometimes only 30. Most of the grip events if you don't get them in the first couple of try's you not going to so there is no sense in wasting the time, makes the contest run alot faster and smoother.

[Bob Lipinski]

Thanks Dave, appreciate the input.

[Scott Styles]

Not to excuse madss, but I think this is an excellent start. I look forward to seeing more events added to the list.

Is finger strength another contestable category of hand strength? I'm thinking of events like:

Rim Lift

Bomb Lift

X Finger Ring lift

Middle Finger Deadlift

Or do those fall under supporting / pinching events?

What about odd object medley type events, say where there is a rolling thunder lift, blob lift, and odd object lift. How does that work with satisfying the versatility criteria?

---------

Dave, it looks to me the way you do things (3 attempts, 45 seconds per) fits under the rules Bob has set forth here.

[Bob Lipinski]

I don't have the Rim lift listed yet (cause I didn't know about it back when I first drew up that list), but I would put it under supporting.

Don't know where I would put the bomb- Probably pinch?

Ring lifts are under supporting, and I could definitely accept one finger lifts.

Don't know about how technical I would get with medleys and stuff re:versatility, I think that is something that I would wait to see if it needs to be addressed, no sense getting too technical yet.

Thanks Scott. I will update the events list.

Edited April 5, 2006 by Bob Lipinski

[Hubgeezer]

I have competed in 3, 4, 5 and unlimited attempt contests. If I were King, and I wanted to be fair, I would choose a 4 attempt structure. Three is not always enough.

Hubgeezer

[madss]

I feel that contest are more a testing pot for what guys like and want to see. We all have different view on what events should be in contest. I feel that experimenting with differnent ideas (event wise) is the way to go. 1 year from now who is to say that what we do now will even be wanted in a contest because a new event was used and everyone that attended loves it. We have 2 events that are "contest standard" 2-hand pinch and V-bar. All other events are up to the host and ,these are the events, that will move us forward in the years ahead.

I personally would prefer to do some thing different but it would be a change that would ripple the water. Not to offend anyone and don't want to start an international arguement but why can't the vertical bar be a 1.5" or 2" bar would that test grip better then the 1"? heck does a thicker bar tear your palm off? I don't know I have never tried. somebody could tell me. 2 hand pinch set up is great but slow to change for contest, could there be a different style? Grippers- vary alot in strenght, sets vary, why not make them for contest a set 2.25" and no set them. Leaves no questions about set. These are all thing I think about and don't want to argue over them and will not argue about what I said. These are thing I want to try at my contest and with my buddies, if they work out great if not back to the drawing board.

As for the standard rule, Bob you have worked hard to be fair and I feel these are great standards to follow. As for record events tight standards are to be used so that all contest are equal and it gives a fair chance to anyone competing. example- if caking chalk on makes an event easier does it make it unfair? should it be a bare metal with the normal chalk dusting? Like when you lift a blob, I have never seen one with a caked layer of chalk. Why is v-bar and pinch different? Just questions to think about for everyone.

[Mikael Siversson]

Not to offend anyone and don't want to start an international arguement but why can't the vertical bar be a 1.5" or 2" bar would that test grip better then the 1"? heck does a thicker bar tear your palm off? I don't know I have never tried. somebody could tell me.

I would be happy to tell you. In vbar lifting it is a huge advantage if you can apply pressure with the thumb across a finger or two. You don't need to go up in bar diameter much at all for this to start to become impossible for guys with shorter hands. Basically, at 1 1/2'' for example you turn it into two different lifts so to speak. One lift in which people can still apply pressure with the thumb and another lift where people can not. This is the reason why we chose a narrow and somewhat painful diameter.

With a 25mm vbar you would basically get a Bell curve distribution of the results whereas at 1 1/2'' (38mm) you would probably get a bimodal distribution.

As for record events tight standards are to be used so that all contest are equal and it gives a fair chance to anyone competing. example- if caking chalk on makes an event easier does it make it unfair? should it be a bare metal with the normal chalk dusting? Like when you lift a blob, I have never seen one with a caked layer of chalk. Why is v-bar and pinch different? Just questions to think about for everyone.

I could not produce a caked layer of chalk on my vbar and pinch even if I wanted to. It is too dry where I live. It makes a slight difference but I can live with that. Still much better than the window cleaning agent drama ala Vince.

Edited April 5, 2006 by Mikael Siversson

[bencrush]

The first thing I will do is put up a general list of rules for grip strength competitions. We will discuss the rules for a week, then vote on points of debate. Voting will be limited to those who promote or compete in grip competitions.

Why is this important?

For a strength sport, people enjoy having comparisons with others. Having a common set of rules will help ensure that we can keep proper records. Also, this helps enforce the legitimacy of our sport, so that we do not end up with a farce like "Mike The Destroyer's" event masquerading as a legitmate contest. When asked why it is not, we will have a list of rules to point to.

This is not about me being the boss. It is about setting some standards and getting things done.

On to the General Competition rules. Please debate.

------------------------------------------

General Competition Guidelines

A competition recognized by US Handstrength should follow these general guidelines:

1. More than three events in the contest.

2. Over half of the events must be from the generalized list of grip lifts, and all events must have a strong emphasis on hand strength. The contest must test at least three of the following categories of handstrength- Wrist strength, Crushing, Supporting, and Pinching.

3. Competent and objective judging must be present.

4. No hook grip allowed.

5. Standard gym chalk allowed- No rosin, tacky, spray grip, etc.

6. No straps or wrist wraps allowed.

7. No more than 5 attempts allowed per event.

8. Each attempt can consist of a no longer than one minute period where the lifters may make as many attempts to lift the weight as they choose. This does not apply to timed events.

Recognized Grip Feats

Note- The following feats are the most generally recognized and popularly accepted. As other feats become popular or regularly used, the event list will be accordingly updated.

1. Crushing

-Hand Grippers- No set, Credit card set, or Parallel Set.

2. Supporting

-Olympic bar deadlift/hold (one or two handed)

-One Hand Dumbell Deadlift, Clean, or Snatch

-Revolving Handle lifts

-Double Overhand Deadlift

-Vertical Bar lifts (1" diameter is the usual standard)

-Ring lifts

4. Leverage lifts

-Brick Lifts

-Short Steel Bending (Bars under 7" of length)

-Sledge Hammer Leverage

8. Pinch Lifts

-Plate pinching, 1 and two handed

-Hub Lifts

-Block lifts (various manufactured implements)

-Block weight lifts

Single Event Contests:

Single event contests are recognized. These events can help promote grip sports by being attached to larger events such as strongman competitions or powerlifting meets. All rules (besides # and type of events) are applicable, and records for these contests will be held seperately.

The list of general guideless looks great Bob!

I don't think anyone takes this as you trying to be the boss...just trying to get stuff done.

I would like to see at least 4 attempts allowed per event. Some people like me tend to get warmed up slowly and/or aren't sure of their strength levels on contest day. That will probably change the more contests I go to but I've already gone to 5 (2 were only minorly grip-related contests) contests and still have a hard time figuring out how many attempts I should take or where to start. 4 or 5 attempts would definitely help drive the records up too. And that's always a good thing!

I didn't see any hand size categories listed either. I don't want to start yet another huge debate about hand size but with GGC having the 7.75" and under category I think that made a lot of sense. Because we all know that a man with 7" hands deadlifting the Inch is a world apart from a man with 10" hands doing the same thing.

Will there be any differentiating between DO and DU bending? Since DO benders rule all or most of the top spots (except for Big Steve) on the Top 50 List it might be interesting to keep records of the best DU bends and have them in a separate category than the DO bends. I'm not saying that it's necessarily harder, it's just a different style of bending. One that some people excel in and others can't do anything with. Same for DO of course.

Always glad to see the TNS in that list. Here's a question: If a contest organizer had a Double TNS event, would it be recognized by US Handstrength as a legitimate contest event? Reason I ask is that by this time next year I plan on changing careers and would have enough time to organize a grip contest. That would be my choice of gripper event. Among others...

Would a certain brand of vertical bar have to be used to be recognized? FBBC? LGC? I think that is fair. But it might not be fair to include the records of a contest that used a homemade vbar.

[Bob Lipinski]

Thanks for comments. So much of this stuff are things that are things that might have to be tackled as they come up.

Ben, you brought up a point about "standard" events. I would not be picky here. Experiment! Double TNS may not really be "standard", but if you look at what I propose, only 3 events out of 5 need to be "standard". Experiment and have fun!

Hand size classes is something I want to tackle in the future. Not sure if the GGC is going to have them this year. While I like them, they just may not be popular enough to mess with. The only reason I hesitate to include them is that I would rather things be a little "unfair" in that regards than water down the competition too much.

With regard to blobs, I have seen them coated with chalk! Some blobs are much harder than others. A few blob lifters have tried my blob and couldn't do anything with it. I have gotten one blob a foot or two off the ground, but can't even budge my 45.

[climber511]

Aurg - my internet has been down all day! So I'm playing catch up. I'd like to hear from more people - I know a lot of you really do care about this stuff. It's a shame that WHSA didn't make it but I think what Bob is doing can lay a good framework for a contest system here. A lot of this is really just book keeping I think - just writing down rules or guidelines that are really fairly standardized already. As for adding new events - we just need to write things down so others know how it was done - and then what the promoter/competitors thought of it - did everyone like it - is there something different you would try if you used it again - it may be a good event that just needs a couple small changes made to make it a great event. Will we get it completely right the first try - maybe not - but I think it's a good idea to try anyway. I know Jedd and Smitty, Dave at TPS, Bob, Scott etc have learned from each contest they put on, and that helps the next one they do be even better. More popular events - easier and better ways of judging, quicker scoring methods, etc, etc. If people can share thier experiences, right and not so right, everyone will benefit from it. If we can write down what these people have learned and apply it to other contests, we can have a safer, fairer, more efficient contest experience. So come on, open up and say what you think.

[Scott Styles]

I think there should be a simple process for a promoter to have an event added to the list of "standard" events, which may be more comprehensive than the list of events on which records are kept. Maybe run the event twice and provide a write up of the setup / rules / judging process.

I'm in favor of any v-bar that is approximately 25mm or 1" being allowed. Keep it simple.

[bencrush]

Bob, have you heard from Kevin Fulton on any of this? I haven't talked to him in quite some time now...

He has had some very good grip contests. Good talent. And some very unusual grip events. Like the double Olympic bar farmer's walk for one.

He would probably have a lot of good stuff to add. Especially since he's held the grip contests since 1999 I think. Although last year's didn't happen for some reason.

[jad]

First of all, hats off to you Bob for forging ahead!

I'd like to see a plate wrist curl added at some point if it becomes more popular. I think it would be very easy to judge, plates are pretty easy to get access to, and you could have different increments. For example, a 25, 10kg bumper, 35, 15kg bumper, 45.

I really like your idea of single events. The 100m dash record isn't held by a decathalete and nobody seems to have any problems with it. I too would like to see a handsize category, especially at any contest including CCS, TNS, wide pinch, and/or thickbar. Granted, it would need to be a good size contest or it would be watered down. I think it would be neat to have record categories for handsize as well, at least in events largely dependent on handsize.

Edited April 6, 2006 by jad

[John Beatty]

The rules are great - just what they should be, clear & easy to understand.

As far as standard events - can we possible add a "if you choose to have less than the 3 standard events, it must be pre approved"? I've got a 7-8 year history of running comps that try to bring off the wall events in to play. The Snowman has always had offbeat events & that's part of the draw. That's what I want to do with the BBB, too. Not a problem this year, as I'll have Vbar, Bomb & Blobs, but if I come up with a bunch of oddities, I'd like to throw them out there.

Also, can we add Hercules Hold to Standard events? No big deal if no go, but it is about the purest Grip event from Strongman.

[Bob Lipinski]

John, your addition sounds good. I think that as long as a majority of the other promoters agree that a contest is "sanctioned", there is no reason it shouldn't be.

Farmers walk and Hercules Hold may as well be standard events, unless someone objects.

[EricMilfeld]

First off, I commend you, Bob, for your productive efforts! I think you're on the right track. I do think it's a real shame that the WHSA has disbanded, though. Ideally there should be one ruling body for all gripsters worldwide.

I think that any grip related event that can be contested under standardized conditions should become a standardized event. Events involving a 2.5" round bar or handle could have, perhaps, three different hand size divisions. Something like 7" and under, 7" to 8", and 8" and over might work. But I don't favor the idea of having different hand size divisions in grip contests, save this one category.

And, of course, I'm willing to lend any help with your association that you may need.

[Bob Lipinski]

I appreciate the support Eric! Thanks.

After some of the basics get hammered out, I would like to set up a process that proposals can be made, and decisions on them arrived at in a timely fashion.

Once a reasonable level of organization is achieved here in the US, setting up organization on the world level will be much easier.

If anyone feels the need, I would enjoy more record lists. Compiling thick bar events by handsize, top ten lifts in a given event, and so on.

[madss]

I like the ideas, guys! It #1 thing I hear from contestants is hand size divisions. On some events its not important, grippers, 2-hand pinch , v-bar, but some it is critical-like blob lifts(top or by face), RT, thick-bar, etc.. As long as there are enough competitors I feel hand size divisions levels the field.

[gamidon]

We will need a method of voting as well. Somehow we need to tally votes for things. A poll will not work as anyone could vote even those from other countries.

Thoughts?

[Scott Styles]

Does it really matter of those from other countries can vote? Their input is as valid as any. It doesn't really change whether or not an idea holds merit.

[gamidon]

Well the Vbar was a real issue and the several outside the US were dead set against it. If we put up a vote on US use of vbars should we factor in what the people outside the US think?

If this was the international comittee then all should vote, but I don't think I should be voting for Euro rules. I welcome any comments they have in the US rules but I don't think they should be voting on them either.

Edited April 6, 2006 by gamidon