Allman Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Tom Black said the charter of the IGC is not to hold contests. That leaves it open for others to run contests. Nick encourages others to run their own contests. I suppose if there are no official world championships then someone will have to be the first to hold them. Why doesn't David hold a World championships simultaneously with the British comps? Or why can't Nick hold a World championship? Someone has to show some leadership in the present situation where there are no such contests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Fulton Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 I'd like to clarify a couple of things regarding the contests that I have held. THe first year we did not adjust for age and bodyweight. The second year we did not adjust but we had a 95 kg. and over class and a 95 kg. and under class. Last year we DID adjust for age and bodyweight AND we used a ranking system AFTER we had done the corrections. Everyone competed against everyone. The reason for the ranking system after the adjustments is----it gives all the events equal importance instead of just using a total where some of the lifts carry more weight. As Brian stated above we did not adjust for bodyweight in two of the events and I asked the contestants for their input on this decision and they decided. These were events where bodyweight seemed to have little relevance. It actually worked against me since there were 4 lifters heavier than myself and it changed the outcome of the contest in favor of Matt Graham. I was glad because I truly felt he deserved to win. I try to be fair and not design the system to favor myself. I felt that last years system was probably the fairest. As you can see I have changed my methods each year. THese changes have always been a result of feedback from the competitors. I welcome their input BUT I never give consideration to feedback from people who have not or probably never will step onto the platform. I see no reason. We also have separate divisions for men and women and give identical awards. I very much believe in this as I train a lot of female lifters and always strive for equality. This last year we had 2 female competitors. We have not used novice and intermediate divisions like David does in our contests. My resaons for this are: 1) I spend a lot of money on awards. You can barely afford to do this with just one open division. I lost money on the first two contests and decided to just have one division and adjust on age and bodyweight last year. Since I have fewer awards to purchase, I can afford to give better trophies and I managed to break even last year. I even had food catered in. Our three grip contests have ranged from 7 to 12 competitors. It's not a very popular sport and this makes it hard to run a contest without losing money. 2). another reason for one division is that you have more people to compete against which makes things a lot more interesting in my opinion. If you place high you have actually beaten a few people. Someone mentioned above about the IAWA having too many weight classes. I agree but we run several USAWA/IAWA contests each year and only use the weight classes for record purposes. All placings and awards are based on the age and bodyweight formula with everyone competing against everyone. Other meet directors do this also. While the total number of competitors may be small, You can still feel good when you win and beat out 10 or 12 other lifters on the formula. I think the philosophy that everyone should get a prize or award in any type of competition is horseshit. Then the awards become meaningless unless you are a trophy collector. If you do not compete unless you think you can win or get a trophy, you are really not a true competitor in my book. Lastly, organizing a contest takes time, money and effort. For me the time factor is my biggest obstacle as I manage 3000 acres of farmland along with several other business enterprises. It's hard to even find a weekend that is open. You must accept that you cannot please everyone. You must choose a scoring system and pick the events among other things. These are all decisions that not everyone will agree with. David and others who have run contests know what I'm talking about. I do this because I enjoy competing, win or lose. I have also met a lot of great people doing this. I'm glad to see others trying to promote grip contests and wish you the best of luck and I hope that you will be supported by those on this board. Several people have recently contacted me for input as they are thinking of organizing contests. It would be nice if more interest was generated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allman Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Kevin said:"I welcome their input BUT I never give consideration to feedback from people who have not or probably never will step onto the platform. I see no reason." I understand this comment but constructive criticism can be valuable regardless of the source. About using formulas to bring fairness to grip competitions. How does one establish how to equalize performances in say the pinch grip? If we apply formulae that have no relevance to grip strength we are merely manipulating results with no justifiable purpose. I would prefer to see the events staged as individual events then an overall award given for best lifter. You can award medals in events to save money and have one trophy for the overall winner. That way specialists will be encouraged to enter particular events and place without having to enter all the events. I really can't see how powerlifting formulas are going to apply to all grip events. There doesn't seem to be many competitors in the grip contests. Perhaps that is why the rules are basically what the promotor/competitor decides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Kevin, Excellent points from SOMEONE who knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 115-1005574997 Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 I think there is an underlying issue thats being missed by the input of people that havent competed or organised meets. Money and time. To implament some of the suggestions proposed by non competitors, Kevin and David (and any other organiser) would have to be a professional, Douggie Edmonds, and do nothing else for a living. Allmans comment of "Why doesn't David hold a World championships simultaneously with the British comps? Or why can't Nick hold a World championship? Someone has to show some leadership in the present situation where there are no such contests." is insulting to the dedication, sacrifices and effort Dave, Nick and Kevein have and are continuing to make. Until the sport is as proffesional as the WSM then we have no right to critise or pick faults in the organisers. comment yes, offer suggestions, but not belittle their efforts! There is a wonderful tradition in grip lifting and to casualy disgard our history is aslo wrong. The inch dbell demands great upper body strength, you cannot clean a heavy thick handled dbell if your grip is weak. hook grips are not tricks and just because some cant deadlift as much as Dave and Jim can vbar,so what. shut up or train harder! Im not the worlds best grip lifter and i will never beat Jim, Dave, Jake or many other lifters in a competition. But i still compete and still strive to be the best i can becasue ive realsied there is something far more important than JUST winning. It seems that Dave's Kevs and Nicks attitude to the sport are the same as mine, winning is a bonus, but the camaradery, the banter, the effort, the challenge thats the REALLY important bit! Its like the proverb about money. Wheres the happyness in a pile of paper, the joy comes in sharing it with others. One interesting competition that David ran earlyer in the year (oh I also think we have forgotten that David is running about 5 contests a year! ) was the grip endurance event. I for one enjoyed the concept and was pleasantly suprised at the results. Its far easier to sit in a padded arm chair in front of a computer and bandy ideas around, but it takes effort and guts to get off your ass and compete and even more to organise a cometition. Just remember that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 115-1005574997 Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Ive been talking to Jim wylie and hes made an interesting point and made me think. Id like to share it with everyone. Firstly we should count our blessing there are people like arney, dave, kev and Nick. without them there wouldnt be any grip contests. we should be very greatful, period! Secondly, i wonder if its a sad symptom of modern society. My grilfriends brother has NO organised cometitive sport at school. everything they do equaly praises everyones efforts regardless if you came first or last. very comendable in a liberal, eutopia. but 3million years of evolution has programed people to be competative. business strives for excellence and is very competative. Jobs demand you to be competative and only the best candidate will be selected. Grip lifting contests should be no different. The point of a COMPETITION is really, really simple. to see whos the best. You go against other people of similar size and ability to determin whos the winner. people need to train hard, turn up and do their best. If you have some natural ability then good for you. if you didn't win or beat your previous best, train harder and come back next year. If you dont like the idea of competition, dont compete! And as for hook grips being a trick, (I hope Jim doesnt mind me quoting his words) "'trickery' eh? as if by magic the weight just floats up! Herman must have been a master magician when he used the hook grip to deadlift 330kg with one hand (one of the finest grip feats ever). " Jim that just about sums it up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allman Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 First of all I thought this was a discussion board. If we all agreed on issues there would be no point in debating such things. Scott Essery said, "I think there is an underlying issue thats being missed by the input of people that havent competed or organised meets." How does he presume to know who has competed or organized meets? "Money and time. To implament some of the suggestions proposed by non competitors, Kevin and David (and any other organiser) would have to be a professional, Douggie Edmonds, and do nothing else for a living." This is patently false. All I am suggesting is that David call his competition a world championship and start a precedent. It shouldn't cost any more or take any more time. I am insulting no one at all. I appreciate the time and effort to run competitions. "Until the sport is as proffesional as the WSM then we have no right to critise or pick faults in the organisers. comment yes, offer suggestions, but not belittle their efforts!" The sport does not have to be professional to have a world championship. Where is the criticism or fault picking? I did ask about drug testing and if David's contest was going to be held in a gym or hall. Surely that isn't picking a fault? "There is a wonderful tradition in grip lifting and to casualy disgard our history is aslo wrong." I am aware of some of the history of grip lifting. It seems to be unorganized and associated with strongmen of the past. "The inch dbell demands great upper body strength, you cannot clean a heavy thick handled dbell if your grip is weak." I don't consider a lift which demands great upper body strength a grip lift. Naturally one needs a super grip to get it off the floor. " hook grips are not tricks and just because some cant deadlift as much as Dave and Jim can vbar,so what. shut up or train harder!" I disagree. Hook lifts are not something that are practiced in gyms. Powerlifters and oddlifters are the only ones using it. I have no particular interest in torturing myself because someone has decided to include such a lift in a contest. When the fun goes out of a sport it can't be that attractive. "But i still compete and still strive to be the best i can becasue ive realsied there is something far more important than JUST winning. It seems that Dave's Kevs and Nicks attitude to the sport are the same as mine, winning is a bonus, but the camaradery, the banter, the effort, the challenge thats the REALLY important bit!" There are lots of reasons that people participate in sports and compete. You have listed yours. Yes, the grip community sounds like a group of mates with a few outsiders. "Its far easier to sit in a padded arm chair in front of a computer and bandy ideas around, but it takes effort and guts to get off your ass and compete and even more to organise a cometition. Just remember that! " It takes plenty of guts to sit on one's backside and take issue with you fellows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Allman, If you prefer to not use a hook grip, there is no rule that says you must employ it. But the hook grip is not a trick anymore than a one finger lift is a trick- both can be very painful. Trickery cannot be involved if straps/hooks etc are not employed. If everyone, using bodyparts only, competes, where can the trickery be (assuming weights are real). As to some of these matters not being practiced in gyms, that is virtually true of most of the feats discussed here: pinching, grippers, thick bar, so I fail to see the relevance of the point. We do not wait for the majority to accept what we do. The grip board is the vanguard, not the caboose. So in that regard I agree that David should herald his competition as the World Championships; he, and several others who compete are certainly world caliber, so it would hardly be a presumptive appelation (love that word!). Incidentally, your posts are thoughtful and it's enjoyable to read them. Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 115-1005574997 Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Allman Time to defend my reputation. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and im all for free debate (opinions and ideas are what the grippage is for) but i take issue with the way you word your ideas. You misquoted me "Someone has to show some leadership in the present situation where there are no such contests." thats the part i find insulting, the suggestion that David, Kev, Arne and/or Nick MUST organise contests to a set standard. The effort they put in, free of charge should not be critasised.... IMO. How do i presume things? well through common sence. Some of your comments apear that you have never entered a grip contest, had experience in its organisation, understanding of the time commitments or sympathetic about others responsabilities (work, family etc). So put the record straight Allman, how many comps have you entered? Do you contradict youself in this quote? "I don't consider a lift which demands great upper body strength a grip lift. Naturally one needs a super grip to get it off the floor" So IYO is the inch dbell a grip lift? also could you please clarify what you mean by "the grip community sounds like a group of mates with a few outsiders". Im not sure what you are getting at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersqueeze Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 I see a whole lot of competitive pride surfacing in just trying to discuss this topic. I have never competed in an ORGANIZED grip contest, probably never will. However, I have been competing in other sports and in the real world for the last 40 years (my whole life). At 40 I fear my motivation for competitive sport has about left me. I still enjoy spectating, training my body and discussing most things physical. Run your competitions. Enjoy them for what they are. Try not to worry about what others think or say. But be prepared for criticism ... THAT'S JUST WHAT PEOPLE DO. You gotta have thick skin to be good at anything. -Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Liz, (a long time ago- this post moves soo fast) i didn't mean to suggest that it is unfair for you to get a formula bonus because you are a women. i am simply curious as to whether the formula is correct or not. like i said before- if you are the strongest women in world grip, than your total with formula should equal that of the strongest man. since you're the strongest known (no flattery intended) you should end up no better no worse than a tie for first. After all, as the strongest you would be the one setting the formula- oh well, they could just have a women's division and give you a first for just showing up- that'd probly suck though scott and allman or everyone else... remember that this board is probly the best on the net becouse no one here is just sitting on their arse and critisizing. we all care a great deal about grip and we all have tremendous respect for the great lifters out there. i'd love to enter a grip contest no matter how it's judged and thank dave and nick and kevin and any others that take the time to put any meets together. everyone got an opinion on how to make the system perfect though... i say keep them comin'! (but nobody has to follow or even read any of these suggestions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 I know for a fact that Elizabeth would not compete in a class of only one competitor. Actually would anyone do this after the first time? Over the many years that I have competed in strength sports (grip, armwrestling, tug of war, strongman, powerlifting, all round lifting, strandpulling, and highland games) I have seen many ways of running events and competitions. The worst I found by far was to travel a long way to find that I was in a class on my own. It was soul destroying! All that training for what. When you came back with your trophy, and people asked how you did, you would reluctantly tell them you came 1st, because when they ask how many you beat you didn't want to have to say none! I have read all the points posted and some are interesting, and as Mike points out, I will run the competition the way I want to. If I didn't run a grip comp here in England then there would be none, and I couldn't compete in my favourite strength pursuit. Anyone who knows me, and who have been to my house know what a collection of strength memorabilia (not just grip related items I have). I am a true strength fan. Regarding me running a World Championship; firstly there are not enough counties involved in the sport for it to be truly called a 'Worlds', maybe International. In fact I've already had a chat to Nick about a proposed postal International tournament between Britain v U.S.A. v Australia. Finally I don't think it is fair for me to run a 'World' contest that does not include the best from around the world ie. Sorin, Brookfield, White, McKinless, Fulton, etc. A win in this tournament would be as empty to me as it would be for Elizabeth winning the Ladies champs as the one and only female competing. Another trophy destined for the box in the shed! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allman Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 David, you most assuredly can run any contests exactly how you want. That is what is possible in the current situation where we do not have organizations that control our sport. No one is knocking anything you have done. It would be better for everyone if contests were run by people who were not competing, but that is unlikely to happen in grip contests until they become more popular. About calling your contest the World Championships. No one can stop you from doing that. Second, you seem to have a mandate to do it. You have earned this from the respect you have obtained from competing and lifting remarkable poundages in different events. Whether the others you mention show up to challenge you is unknown. However, if you stage a World Championship you will have a time and place for the best to assemble. The best would have a contest to train for. At the moment there is no such contest. You publish a magazine called Iron Grip and you have listed the best efforts of grip men and women in the past. Who else has the status to promote such a show? Perhaps you could personally invite the likes of Richard Sorin to compete there. You could do the same for the others you mention. It is clear that no matter where a contest is held it will be a long way for most people. It is possible to invite sponsors and individuals to donate money or a trophy to help stage the event. Perhaps you could stage the first contest and then Kevin the next in America and Nick the third in Australia. Anything is possible. I recall that they had squash racquet contests in England for decades. This usually was considered the world championships if you won the event. The same thing would happen at your contest. You do not need to listen to me. I am merely making a suggestion. If you have a vision and a dream it is possible to make them come true. I know you might have concerns about staging a "World Championships" and not having many show up and then the winners are world champions but might not deserve to be so. It is up to others to attend and see if they can win any events. I take it David is the uncrowned world grip champion for men and Elizabeth is for the women. In my opinion you both deserve the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Hmmm, is that you Vince? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth talbot Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 I'd love to be the best, but I have nobody to compete against and so I will never know if I really am, not until someone shows up to prove it or otherwise. I'm just the best I know of at the moment (I think!) David was right, if I was the only one in my class then I would not compete. A trophy that you win by beating yourself is a very empty one. I know, it's happened before. It didn't take long before that trophy (never did like it much anyway) was relegated to a lot further away than the garden shed. Everyone who organises a competition is obviously a dedicated person (for whatever reason). There are no truly altruistic motives in life anyway. Everyone who attends, participates in or spectates at competition is helping our sport. Everyone on this board MUST be interested, or they wouldn't be here. They are all furthering the sport: talking to their friends at the pub, helping each other to build a bigger future for grip. My main point is this: we all want competitions to be held, for fun and for our (unfortunately) competitive natures, and the idea of a world championships is a very fine one. But I believe that it is an idea for the future. In real terms, grip is only just beginning to walk, whilst other strength sports such as powerlifting are already in full stride. We're better off staying in reality for the moment, and yes, one day I'm sure we'll find our world champion. We have to learn to walk before we can run... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Powerlifting is in full stride alright..into the dumper IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 A World championship is not worth the paper it is written on if it does not include the best athletes around. For those who don't know, Elizabeth is only 18, and has already competed in two World championships at TWO different sports. She has armwrestled against the Russian legend Vika Gabakova (11 times World Champ, 16 times Euro champ) for a bronze in the Worlds in Poland. Competed in the Worlds Strongest Woman event in Callander against the WSW Jill Mills (who she beat in an event or two if my memory serves me correct), and other great strongwomen---both of these at the age of 17!! What this shows is that she wants and needs to COMPETE against the best, and unfortunately there are no real contenders for her to go against in the grip field. But with the sex allowance (introduced by I.A.W.A. a few years ago ) she can. For those interested to know these formulas were formulated by mathematicians, so who am I to question them, and why should I as they seem to work quite well. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allman Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Mathematics is surely used to calculate a formula to apply to events to make performances comparable. A mathematician can use only the information and data that is presented to him. If there is only one woman competing in grip contests then I doubt if any formula could be made since there are not enough competitors. That means using formulas created for powerlifting or weightlifting. Are these formulas valid for grip contests? David seems to think they work. I find it hard to believe that is it valid or desirable to compare women with the men. Is Elizabeth competing against the men in the events or does she lift separately with other women and then compared via a formula? For the record, does bodyweight or age make a difference in grip events such as pinch grip or closing grippers? Just wondering. Perhaps the formulas might introduce distortions in events when deciding who the winners are. I should hope that the people who deserve to win are in fact also the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allman Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 About the World Championships for grip. David feels, "A World championship is not worth the paper it is written on if it does not include the best athletes around." Yes, I recall armwrestling championships in the past that were national titles. Where were the natural strongmen? Only a few actually showed up to compete. The truth is you can claim to be the champion of any contest if you win. Does that make you the best in a state, country or world? Maybe not, because there might always be others out there who are better. However, are we going to wait for all the strongest to assemble first before we have such a contest? Surely the egg (A world Championship) has to be hatched before any such assembly is possible. Championship contests are the only way anyone is going to attract the best. Someone has to start this off. I disagree with your statement. It all depends on who wins and what the performances were. If the lifts are world bests then the title means a lot. I would like to see all the best compete. How likely is that? When is it ever going to happen? I think we are going to have to accept that only a few will venture forth at first. Once these contests are a regular thing many more will train for them in the future. If we look at the CoC list we see that Richard Sorin was the first and not much happened for several years. Today, because of interest, there are many closing a number 3 every few months or so. Would we have this happening if we did not have Ironmind's list in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 You know, I kinda thought I'd put enough information forward regarding how our grip comp ran. Surely it must be plain to see that Elizabeth is the only female competing recently, so why write " Is Elizabeth competing against the men in the events or does she lift separately with other women and then compared via a formula? ". Allman, your ramblings are boring me. Why don't you run a world championship? I certainly am not going to. If anyone out there does want to please give me a shout, and I may come over and compete. I am hopefully coming over to the U.S. in November for the World armwrestling champs. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Fulton Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Allman- I have no problem with you expressing your opinion but why would you expect someone like myself or David or others to give serious considerations to some of your suggestions? You are telling David the how's and why's about running a world championship contest?? Maybe you've competed at a world championship level but if I kinda doubt it. David, Nick, myself and a few others here have and we have gained valuable experience from it and the other hundreds of competitions we have been involved in. It doesn't mean we have all the answers but we must choose advice carefully and look at the issues from all angles. You stated that constructive criticism can be valuable regardless of the source. That can be true but most often isn't. The source has everything to do with how most people evaluate criticism and/or advice. My suggestion is that you enter a contest or even host one and learn more about what it entails. For me, handling criticism is easy. I just ignore those that talk to hear themselves think. I listen and learn from those who have gained wisdom from similiar experiences. I have consulted with numerous people regarding my contests. All of them are competitors and/or meet directors. I can see why David would have reseravations about calling his meet the "World Championships". Someone once suggested that I call our meet the U.S. Championships. We ususally have a dozen entries from 4-5 states but that hardly constitutes a national championship contest in my mind. I know there are some powerlifting organizations that have a gym meet and call it the National or even World championships but I don't think David or others like myself want to put ourselves in that category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Allman, your ramblings are boring me. See! See! It is Vince. I traced your IP to Australia as well Vince. Come clean Vince or you are gone and your new ISP will be for not! As usual, providing nothing positive and inciting negative feelings on this board. We won't have anything of it. You can go back to talking to yourself on your board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 OK! I had a feeling this would happen, really we are going around in circles here. Thanks for ALL your comments. I will be running the first Australian Grip Championships later this year (probably in December when I am guaranteed time off). This will be held in either Queensland where I live or at a designated venue in Sydney. The main reason I may go to Sydney, for those interested, is that Arm Wrestling Australia are going to do a sister event on the Sunday making this a weekend of arm related sports. This will generate more interest and each sport can feed off each other. David has been trying to get me inlvolved in arm wrestling for some time now and it has now happened I think. Richard Aplin is just starting this sport here in OZ but it will be good to get them going together. They are a little way ahead of me but I am up to the challenge. It will NOT be a World Grip Champs. It's a ridiculous idea when I know I can't have Kevin, David and many other great grippers involved. In years to come we will have this comp and no doubt it will be held in the US first, then perhaps the UK and hopefully then in Australia. My personal main concern is getting the great Bruce White to the competition. He lives on the other side of Australia and might not be able to attend. That said I will do everything possible to have him there. This makes the percentages for bodyweight and age (and sex, since my wife will be 'having a go' too, to support me) all the more important. Why go up against a great like Bruce and not have the percentage allowances? He deserves them and it truly enable me to go against one of the best EVER! Bruce is 70lbs lighter than me and 36 years older but still is lifting outrageous numbers particularly in deadlifting and pinching. I want to go up against this - win or lose. I am hoping for 10 competitors - it's not many but it's a start - anymore is a bonus. For this reason we will use the same formulas as the British Grip Champs that have worked so well over the years. IF we ever get up to 20 competitors then we may introduce the other catagories (open, intermediate, novice) but until then we'll stick with one open catagory. I am surpirsed that the IGC isn't interested in the competitons that really started much of this grip thing we enjoy and also keep us pushing the limits. However, I couldn't care less really and I don't think Kevin or David could either. We run the comps for our enjoyment and regulate them as best we can. If you don't like it then fine but don't criticise until you have actually 'had a go'. I REALLY hate all this bickering! PUT UP OR SHUT UP!! Get your arse to a competition or stick to trying to shut the no.3 gripper if that's the co called pinnacle of grip strength. AS IF! Recently, Jim Wylie equaled David Horne's Vertical Bar Lift of 228kg. I remember David doing this lift and I remember how I felt - astonished! To do what Jim has done is WAY better than closing the no.3 gripper. That goes for other feats too - David's 300kg Table Top Wrist Curl (if you can't figure out how it's done it's because you can't fathom it not because it's a partial lift or a 'trick'), Phil Pfister's Farmer's Walk's (or runs really with weights most can't even lift) and Valentine Dikul bending a 50 pence piece (just mind boggling!!!). Grip competitons will go on being enjoyed by those who bother to 'have a go' and those that don't will continue to miss out. Nick PS Allman is Vince Basile! Vince I know you mean well but you do tend to push people buttons. You should be happy we are having this competition and welcome the allowances as you will benefit as you have some age percentage which can really help. In the next few weeks I will post the lifts for this exciting competion and development in Australia. Tell your friends - it's gonna be a good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allman Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 No, folks, Allman is simply someone who is interested in grip sports and is not advocating any personal agenda. I would appreciate that others keep to the issues and not slip into talking about and criticising personalities. Well, at least it is not clear who will hold contests and what those contests will be called. It remains open to anyone at all to stage the first World Grip Championships this year. Perhaps an announcement will be forthcoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 An announcement 'David Hornes competition will remain being called -The British Iron Grip Championships'. OK? I trust Mr Horne will be ok with me saying this. Kevin Fultons will be called as it was. Ditto. Personalities aside are you, Allman, Vince or not? Regarding said arguement/semantics. If we were all to sit down in a room (I believe this is called a forum), with Mr Black making notes and directing the discussion, I would expect suggestions and a sketched out criteria. So, Allman, rather than push those that have no good reason, other than you wanting them to, into changing the name of their shows why not suggest a laid out, number by number, point by point means and method for a world championships to be held. While you are at it (and yes we can all do this) you can begin the process of standardization and send these suggestions to Mr Black. I can as guilty as you in real life of enjoying an arguement for itselfs sake. However, here on a gripboard, such arguements seem to drag on and on. Getting more and more petty... I'll get the ball rolling. Pinch Grip: In Mr Hornes competition he uses 2 15-kilo olympic plates. I'm guessing the overall thickness to be about 2 and 1/4 to 2 and a 1/2 inches. The original trick lift was to use 2 45-pound plates. These will be about three inches overall. Ironmind make a pinch grip block (don't know what the dimensions are). Lets settle, for arguements sake, on David's set up. If it proves impossible to get 2 identically sized discs for use in other competitions, then measure Daves and have a block or 2 blocks made to the same size and use these. The IGC approves this for use in all competitions - local, national etc. Then and only then would the arguement be sorted. So and to make it easy for Mr Black and other IGC commitee members tell us, all of you, what set up you would prefer. It doesn't matter if this is not recognized as a standard feat of grip strength (as in the Grip masters posting) its a start. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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