Guest Harlan Jacobs Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Old guy, Did I understand you right when you basicly said anyone that don't does not have a problem with drug use is a user ?????????? Bold statement ! Well, sorry but I was check in October when I lifted in a USAPL bench contest where I broke the state record. I was the only one there without a shirt. I opened with one kilo over the record and passed on my next 2. Oh yea, I did them close grip to just to prove a point. You know this whole topic has gotten way out of hand. And I am partly to blame. I will also admit that I talked to a few guys about this and I am going to have to withdraw my statement about drugs not affecting grip strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Harlan, Congrats on your state record, no drugs, no shirt. Wonderful! If this topic has led you to change your mind about drugs relating to grip strength, then this thread is anything but 'out of hand', though you mentioned you talked to some other fellows about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Harlan, I said that I tend to suspect that. I made no statement that people who defend drug user are users themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Cenidoza Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 An ambivalent and apathetic majority will always be ruled by a zealous minority. I'm apathetic about steroid use. Some of you seem rather pationately opposed to all forms of performance enhancement. Until you decide to REALLY ACT nothing will change. Lip service on the internet won't do it. Outlandish behavior (such as Tom of Iowa suggests and Kim Wood DOES) may be the way to start.Mike M. I hear where your coming from on this, but I have to disagree. The internet has brought us together as a group of individuals with a common interest. Personally, I get to talk more training here [the internet] than I do at home, work or school. It really is a community (boy do I sound like a computer nerd LOL!) and where better place to express ones opinion? The topic seldom comes up in real life, but when it does you can bet I'm singing the same song. Also, I think by making your points for or against use here, will influence the way people view you later in life. If any of us here go on to be WSM or set any records or write articles for MILO or whatever, those people reading this thread will say "Yeah, I remember that guy from the gripboard, he's drug-free [or atleast argues against drugs]." Just like, as OldGuy has pointed out, the people arguing for drugs are now suspects. Nothing will change regardless. People will continue to use and there's nothing that can be done about that. Though by speaking out, whether it be on a forum or in person, you may be able to deter someone from drug use. If it's one or a hundred people that I influence away from drugs I feel that I've done a service for the game. -Cenidoza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Those that argue for drugs are automatically suspect?? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 For the same reason that those who argue strongly against them are assumed to be non-users. In either case it could be a ploy. Does not prove anything, but leads thought in a direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 For the same reason that those who argue strongly against them are assumed to be non-users. In either case it could be a ploy.Does not prove anything, but leads thought in a direction. But I've never thought that way. I get more peeved (by my own thought process) by the image of the most outspoken anti - or indeed pro - being innocent of never having ever committed a sin - be it speeding or whatever then spouting 'but its a misdemenor'. I mean double standards or what. I think that a lot of the reason why this thread has lasted so long is that use or the lack thereof is very devisive. As a long time fan of all things PC and liking all its aspects I will remind people that using doesn't a) mean your aren't a bodybuilder,weightlifter, whatever. On or off you workout, eat well and rest well. That 99.99% of being a champ isn't contained in a bottle or syringe but in their head and in the attitude. I'd also like it if we were able to ask thse heroes, whose names are oft quoted, of whom it is said 'they did it all naturally' as thought they would have never considered it - has anyone ever asked all of them? No. So why do some speak for them all. Joe is a historian - tell us Joe of the things the ancient Greek et al athletes did - bulls testicles anyone? Bucket of blood for you Mr Anderson? 4 pounds of beef at one sitting for you sir? No drugs then and yet look what some people have done in order to win. Some of the players of pro-football, apparently tested (yeah right), drugged up on pain killers cos of the $30M contracts with knee injuries etc when they should be resting. Just to clarify one more time. Every record I have, every feat of strength featured on video and or in the gallery was done on NOWT. Nada. Zilch. No drugs were consumed by me to have a better weaver stick record. I'm not saying I never have - but you'll make your own minds up as to whether or not I did as per the earlier premise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Personally I thought I was arguing for freedom to make your own decisions and that people ahouldn't judge others on one facet of their lives - now I find that any feat I might acheive in future (or have achieved in the past) is now to be held suspect? I wouldn't mind except for the fact that there are people who are now praying for my soul to be spared hell, questioning my manhood and who are probably scared of ever meeting me in case I explode into a roid fuelled rage - I am now a suspected steroid user after all. The scary thing is I am not joking here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I am not an expert on ancient Greek law, but I suspect the eating of bull testicles was not illegal. Unsafe if not detached from the bull... Drinking blood is stupid not illegal, etc. Comparing a speeding ticket to steroid use? Reminds me of a friend who said "If you steal a pencil from an office, you are as guilty as if you stole a computer". I doubt the accountant sees it that way. But whatever. Regarding adults: no one made you not take drugs; no one made you take them. Whichever you choose, accept the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Unsafe if notdetached from the bull... Surviving a "Mad Bull Balls Eating" would surely build some functionnal strength though ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Cenidoza Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I'm not saying I never have - but you'll make your own minds up as to whether or not I did as per the earlier premise. Assuming is different from accepting as fact, but all we have to go on is YOUR words. BTW, what's NOWT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Mobster, how do you know that your steroid use didnt contribute to your grip strength? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I've noticed a strong trend in every single controversial topic. Every one has their opinion, and every time the topic is brought up, the arguments and discussions begin. The sad part, is it's always the same argument, always the same discussion, and always the same conclusion: "I'm right, every one else just doesn't understand". Much more important than expressing ones opinion, is action. Steroids are good, bad, indifferent, safe, deadly, cheating or ineffective... It doesn't matter, what does, is that Something must be produced from this argument, or it shouldn't have been started. What can we of this gripboard do about steroids? It seems that there is a wide view of if steroids are moral, ethical or nobodys buisness. It also seems that there is a 100% agreement on juiceing and then entering a drug-free competition. If it's an open comp with no testing, then that pretty much says "use any means nessesary to train". Now it's on the competetor to decide what he does to his body. So what can become of this discussion? Is there a conclusion that can be reached? Or is this just another case of rampant opionion expressing where everybody finishes feeling that "I'm right, and everybody else doesn't understand". If a Grip contest is not drug tested and not mentioned to be "drug-free", then is it perfectly moral, ethical and normal to use steroids?... And if I may be so bold as to mention the original topic, does the extreme recovery ability of steroid use "tarnish" a closing of a #3 or #4? It seems that the #3 and #4 closings are personal accomplishments, and it is not a competition with others. There is no "drug-free" tie to the closing, so can we let it lie at "I may not agree with steroid use, but if you juice and close a #3... good for you. Good luck with your training."??? Again, what can we derive from this discussion. What can be learned and settled from this topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Maybe we would get more meaningful opinions on a juicers forum like T-mag. Personally, I am with Mobster, although, like him, my opinion is based on theory rather than practice. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Mobster, how do you know that your steroid use didnt contribute to your grip strength? I don't recall saying I used steroids so be careful not to misquote me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I've noticed a strong trend in every single controversial topic. Every one has their opinion, and every time the topic is brought up, the arguments and discussions begin. The sad part, is it's always the same argument, always the same discussion, and always the same conclusion: "I'm right, every one else just doesn't understand". Much more important than expressing ones opinion, is action. Steroids are good, bad, indifferent, safe, deadly, cheating or ineffective... It doesn't matter, what does, is that Something must be produced from this argument, or it shouldn't have been started. What can we of this gripboard do about steroids? It seems that there is a wide view of if steroids are moral, ethical or nobodys buisness. It also seems that there is a 100% agreement on juiceing and then entering a drug-free competition. If it's an open comp with no testing, then that pretty much says "use any means nessesary to train". Now it's on the competetor to decide what he does to his body. So what can become of this discussion? Is there a conclusion that can be reached? Or is this just another case of rampant opionion expressing where everybody finishes feeling that "I'm right, and everybody else doesn't understand". If a Grip contest is not drug tested and not mentioned to be "drug-free", then is it perfectly moral, ethical and normal to use steroids?... And if I may be so bold as to mention the original topic, does the extreme recovery ability of steroid use "tarnish" a closing of a #3 or #4? It seems that the #3 and #4 closings are personal accomplishments, and it is not a competition with others. There is no "drug-free" tie to the closing, so can we let it lie at "I may not agree with steroid use, but if you juice and close a #3... good for you. Good luck with your training."??? Again, what can we derive from this discussion. What can be learned and settled from this topic? "I'm right, every one else just doesn't understand". I agree that this does always appear to be the case, certianly in this thread. You are either in my camp or you are a cheat - no gray areas allowed!! Obviously I don't follow that thought pattern. Joe: Ref the accountant - he isn't the law maker and theft is theft be it a pc or pencil according to law. Mild juice use or over the top use is illegal. The arguement for goes that, compared to socially acceptable drug use (booze), roids are way down the list in terms of crime but much higher in terms of profile and drug status (class 2 or 3 here in the UK - on a par with weed use). Joe again: my ref of the 'bulls testicles'. I was asking that a historian, who ought to know, look at what people have tried, possibly stupidly, to do to get an edge. If they were prepared to drink blood (a la the story about Anderson) or eats bulls balls, a al the greeks, what makes us think they wouldn't have used roids. My premise hopefully either weakens arguements or at least says 'don't quote what oldies would have done when u can see what they did'. Nowt means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:02 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I have dabbled - theres a shock for some. I can state therefore that Dianabol does not affect grip strength at all. Not one iota. I'm stronger without it and all of my best efforts have been off. It has been over a year and as it stands I doubt if I'll give it another go. I will say, however, that i was very, very careful and took all the precautions." _________________ from "TheEd" who Im assuming is steve Gardner --on http://musclemob.com/ I only ask because this is what was stated previously on your board.-JW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminator Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Busted..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:02 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I have dabbled - theres a shock for some. I can state therefore that Dianabol does not affect grip strength at all. Not one iota. I'm stronger without it and all of my best efforts have been off. It has been over a year and as it stands I doubt if I'll give it another go. I will say, however, that i was very, very careful and took all the precautions." _________________ from "TheEd" who Im assuming is steve Gardner --on http://musclemob.com/ I only ask because this is what was stated previously on your board.-JW Ya got me. I had hoped that discussion would enable me to set the point straight without me having to fess up and have myself be judged. So to clarify - yes I have used and no I didn't feel any gains in strength. I recovered quicker and added some bodyweight, lost most afterwards. I knocked it on the head (ie stopped) when I decided to go 'all grip'. Each and every best lift, feat of strength et al was done without any roids. I was doing some grip work and without discussing cycles etc here (other forums and places for that) it DID NOT make my grip stronger. Right now I am as strong, if not the strongest I haver ever been and will NOT be using again. Now lets see what response I get now (SINNER!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Busted..... YEP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 So you didnt make any gains at all while using? It was just a flat line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Anyone else have a different experience than Steve's? I was convinced by the logic of his argument, even without the anecdotal evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 So you didnt make any gains at all while using? It was just a flat line? Yep. I had been stronger before and since (2 cycles in total both 8 weeks long and low dosage). I gained size but not strength. My biggest grip lifts have and I say this catagorically, all been done clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 If you had gained strength including grip strength, would you have continued to use. What were you hoping for when you did take them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I know next to nothing about steroids. Don't want to know, will not waste time learning to know. I feel the same way about recreational drugs (illegal ones). I have some general knowledge about steroids- when they entered the bodybuilding literature etc., but I pay no more attention to them than I do to drinking motor oil. There are five answers: 1. I use steroids 2. I have not used steroids 3. I have, but do not now use steroids. 4. I have not used, but plan to 5. None of your business 2 and 3 have merit; 5 is a non-answer answer This thread will continue without me- it is becoming circular, and non-productive, and unless something new is injected, it's more than I can swallow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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