Thoughts On The Double Overhand Push Style

[Mikael Siversson]

Today I decided to go all out trying Eric's overhand style. With the stock I was using I had a previous PR of 6 1/2'' with the double overhand without any push on the ends of the nail with thum pads during the initial part of the bend. I started with a 7'' rod and held my hands just like Eric demonstrated in his video photages; index finger slightly opened and pushed hard into the end of the rod while using the first two fingers as fulcrums. The nail melted like butter with very little strain on the wrists. Tried again with 6 1/2''; same thing. Next was 6'' which also was very easy. At 5 1/2'' things started to get very complicated as the index fingers where no longer clear of each other. I succeeded with the bend but realised that I would probably not be able to bend shorter stuff with this style. It now makes sence why people using this style prefers longer rods as it simply does not work well below 5 1/2'' if you have good sized hands. Overall, minimal stress on the wrists and not really much of a test of brute wrist strength unfortunately. The reverse grip style strains the wrist far more not to mention a double overhand (or underhand) non-pushing style.

[OldGuy]

Now try using David Ostlund's style of bending and report back to us.

[SqeezeMasterFlash]

Double underhand rocks!

[dubthewonderscot]

I would mention another bending style but it would get me banned. So, thanks for the report!

lol.

[austinslater]

You mention Erics name as the sole user of this style but others use it as well. I would be interested in what your thoughts of the underhand style are. Ive heard some say it doesnt rely on the wrists much but I disagree. Have you tried this style out as well?

Austin

Edit: I also tried "Erics style" and couldnt bend a timber tie. Strange.

[Mikael Siversson]

Now try using David Ostlund's style of bending and report back to us.

I have tried the underhand style and found it awkward for me but also hard on the wrists. I migth add that there was no way I could get my wrists into those freaky angles that David does, just before he switches to overhand. Anyway, the underhand style definitely hits my wrists hard (in an uncomfortable way) I would say.

Edited June 10, 2004 by Mikael Siversson

[OldGuy]

Mikael, how much of a factor do you think that handsize is in bending? I feel that for me it is a disadavantage having such a large hand as there is little room on a 60D for me to position the hands. One of my hands alone can cover over 5" of bar or nail. I like to bend with my thumbs together but always end up with a 60 40 bend, and not a centered 50 50 bend which is easier.

[kerbjr]

I bend double underhand and hate anything shorter than 6in, however when I do go to shorter stock I use Eric's style, I think everyone just has different leverages that work for them. All in all no style really seems to work that well for shorter stuff.....and for me anything over 7 in doesnt make a difference as I start with hands together...also does anyone out there, with any style really prefer the "shorter stock"?? We get the point Mike, You dont like this style of bending!!!!!! There is a saying out there about beating a dead horse.... Get off Erics back geeeeeeeezzzzzzz................Brett

[Mikael Siversson]

I think hand size matters in bending, which is why the length of the bars for the European championship is limited to 5 1/2-7 1/2'' (i.e., avoiding really short and long stuff). My preference for competitions would be that several stocks of various (rated) difficulty are available so that someone with large hands can go for e.g. a 7 1/2'' 250k bar while someone with smaller hands can choose a shorter bar rated at the same strength (e.g. a 5 1/2'' 250k bar). My hands cover about 4'' and I prefer lengths around 6-6 1/2'', but manage well with lengths down to 5'' so it is possible that one should, for competitions, consider going somewhat higher perhaps extending the range up to 8''. I don't think off centre bends have anything to do with the bars being too short as it happens to me more often on longer bars than on shorter ones.

[OldGuy]

I think off center bends happen when you grasp more of the nail with your dominant hand to try and gain more leverage. Then of course you lose leverage with the other hand. Center bends if you can do them are ideal. For me 7'' stock is a good length to bend. My best bend has been a blue, and breaking a yellow. Have not bent a 60D. Bolts of 5 to 6'' x 1/4'' less than a grade 5 are easy. I only bend about every 10 days as I am not fired up and into nail bending yet. (poor pain tolerance!)

[SqeezeMasterFlash]

I think larger handed people can bend short stock, it just takes a different technique. When I go for stuff under 5" with double underhand the hardest part is hanging onto the nail. My pinky and ring finger grip gives out before I am able to apply sufficient force, and since those are the only two fingers holding onto the bar, I can't bend it. The result? More motivation to train my last two fingers harder.

[Clay Edgin]

Mikael, your experiments with the double overhand are interesting. Do you plan on using it primarily, or can you do better with a different technique?

I'm a member of the "fat hands nail bending club" too. On really short bends, I will use my right (dominant) hand to really clamp onto the nail in an overhand position and use the heel of my left (stupid) hand to try to push down on the other end of the steel. My left hand is usually open when I do this so my fingers don't get in the way of each other.

[Rick Walker]

Edit: I also tried "Erics style" and couldnt bend a timber tie. Strange.

That is very strange.

I just went out and wrapped up a grade 2 bolt, then put it away in a few seconds using this method. I dont dare try anything harder as the pec strain is enourmous and I do not need another pec problem this far from a contest.

Considering your extremely strong bench press and chest crush Austin, I would think this method would suit you to a "T".

Rick Walker

[austinslater]

Yeah I agree I figured that would be my style. I just feel too bucnhed up while in the double overhand. Might need to work on my flexability.

[SqeezeMasterFlash]

Try touching your palms behind your back. I've been working on it and it helps wrist flexability alot. Still not quite there, but my girlfriend got it on her first try. Now I just have to convince her that makes her a natural bender

[deaner]

not much seems to get said about the over/under style, like david horne uses.

i watched the "how to bend a challenge bar" when i started and this style works great for me and it feels like it hits the wrists plenty.

[Mikael Siversson]

I use that style to kink the bar (as shown in Horne's video, except I use a split towel). In fact, I can get a good kink on bars around the 300k mark and above only to fail when I switch to double overhand (non-pushing style). Using Eric's style will without doubt enable me to bend fairly hard steel with some practise. However, I still believe this style should not be allowed for allround grip competitions where bending is used as the wrist event, as the style is largely a test of pectoral strength. The problem is how to do this without banning all double overhand styles or causing pierced palms.

[OldGuy]

I see in that video a very large towel with a great deal of material extending past the nail. I also see that after the initial kink, the bend is finished mostly with chest strength. I do not see how the bending of nails can be restricted to purely wrist strength.

[jad]

However, I still believe this style should not be allowed for allround grip competitions where bending is used as the wrist event, as the style is largely a test of pectoral strength.

If bending in a competition is supposed to be a demonstration of wrist strength then why not make everyone bend Slim style and be done with it? That's pure wrist strength. Am I missing something?

[Mikael Siversson]

I do not see how the bending of nails can be restricted to purely wrist strength.

My objection from day one has been to a style which to a large extent eliminates wrist strength as the main factor for the INITIAL part of the bend. For most of us, the final chest crush is not where we fail (unless is it that horrible 8mm HRS stock Horne offered earlier on). Bending will never be purely wrist strength as, for a starter, you have to sort of grab it with your fingers but I would like it to be a wrist/chest event rather than a chest/chest event.

[Mikael Siversson]

If bending in a competition is supposed to be a demonstration of wrist strength then why not make everyone bend Slim style and be done with it? That's pure wrist strength. Am I missing something?

Organising grip strength competition requires a lot of compromising. Including bending is a compromise as it involves pectoral strength as well but given the alternatives (all other wrist events I have seen are either a nightmare to judge [far worse than bending] or extremely boring [do I dare mention weaver stick?]) and its popularity I can live with it being a standard feature in allround grip competitions. The Slim style would certainly be a purer test of wrist strength but I was not and I still am not in a position to dictate the rules for the European Championship.

[CMunger]

I'm not sure I understand the obsession with "how much wrist usage". I mean why not have them not bend anything, and just do wrist curls, if we are attempting to measure wrist strength.

Unbraced bending is unbraced bending.

[Mikael Siversson]

I mean why not have them not bend anything, and just do wrist curls, if we are attempting to measure wrist strength.

I thought I just explained that above.

[CMunger]

Well, I typed it out long before I hit the submit button (god bless ADD), but I guess my point is that style, schmyle, bending is what it is. Wrist strength is just a component of bending, and the level of involvement can be affected by any number of subtle changes in angle, position of wrists when starting, etc. "Your elbow was 2" too low when you started. No bend!"

My personal opinion is that we just deal with it, or else we're gonna have to get a lot fussier on lots of things, especially anything supposedly grip related that involves heavy weights. Is bending a compromise? Yes, as long as it is done without arms strapped to a table fully extended, it sure is. Is the d-ring lift a compromise? Yes, as long as it requires effort from the legs and back.

I mean lets face it, if we want "pure" grip/hand strength competition, we have grippers and tabletop wrist curls. And that's about it.

Edited June 11, 2004 by CMunger

[SqeezeMasterFlash]

I agree with Chris. Grip strength contests are about lifts where grip is the primary factor in success of the lift. Grip does not have to be the only factor in the lift. Cleaning and pressing the Inch requires leg, arm and back strength, but I don't think anyone would say that doesn't make the act a feat of hand strength.