Culmination Of The Evolution

[EricMilfeld]

"2) we will also have a section for the Challenge Bars that will ONLY allow you to use the two small 2" x 2" pieces of leather, that you can get from us, or cut off an ordinary weights belt.

This sounds like a fine idea. But with it only being two inches in length, if you have a little hanging off the nail's end to prevent hand punctures, would this allow for enough of the leather to be available on the nail to grasp? What about, say, 2X3 or 3X3"? This wouldn't be so much of an issue for me personally, but for the guys who prefer to place more hand on the bar it may prove troublesome.

[jad]

3)As for the 'NORMAL' bending, then we will either use two pieces of material, or one piece that doesn't extend beyond an inch of the bar. I favour that if we use one piece of cloth and it is two large you have to fold the sides in before you wrap. I'm sure that either of these rulings will stop any problems occuring.

Mr. Horne,

Is this a separate category or will this replace the current challenge bar certifications? Clear as mud I'm sure. Regarding individuals that have already certifed on certain challege bars but did so with more than 1 inch of material hanging over the bar: what is there status? Are they still certified? Certified with an aterisk? I just wasn't sure if the rules were being changed midstream or if a new category was being created. Thanks in advance.

Josh

[David Horne]

Eric,

The 2" x 2" is chosen, and the leather is quite tough (weights belt thickness). It really is a bend without any wrapping, as the leather is small and stiffish. It can be done, but is a lot harder. This will stand seperately from the wrapped certification, and will give something else to go at.

Josh,

Of the performances given so far on certification bends, I don't think anyone has yet gained any significant advantage from extra length of material. This new rule is to prevent any problems as such. So the record list stays the same. I do believe the ruling will not cause any problems.

The new ruling will be sorted soon, probably for after the British Grip Champs in 2 weeks time.

David

[Rob Vigeant]

I see no reason why I can't use a towel that extends no further than one inch per side. I will try this in my next workout and report my findings.

I already know your findings..... you will still kill it! I bend the same way as you

and also thought i was using the rag as an advantage so i only used a rag with 1''

inch hanging off the end and it made NO difference. A BIGGER advantage is using 2 rags as it stops the "RAG BIND" and if you bend with 2 rags and you were using

the rags as leaverage they would slip off but they won't because your also PUSHING INTO you thumb pad......Eric GREAT JOB! keep it up.

[Mikael Siversson]

Maybe using a standardized leather piece is the way to go, with no material extending beyond the ends of the bar at all. I would gladly buy one if someone manufactured them. From my own experience I would say that the gain optained from the cloth extending way beyond the ends of the bar is highly significant if one choses to fully utilize it, especially in the double overhand position. I can't see the point of bending a bar at all costs, including the respect from many of your peers. Shrug and Terminator, to mention a couple, can bend hard steel by applying massive amounts of wrist power, hands firmly on the bars. You want to be compared to these guys, so why use a technique that many of us consider a violation of the rules outlined on this board?

Please note that my one inch suggestion may need modification. It may be best not to allow any material extending beyond the limit of the bar, other than the mm or so covering it. If you can still bend it holding your hands like Eric then fine. I think it is time to get rid of those cloths.

Edited April 19, 2004 by Mikael Siversson

[OldGuy]

Could it not be somewhat dangerous using small pieces of leather? If they slipped inward from the ends of the nail, you could pierce the palms.

[gazza]

Mikael

Shurely then it becomes more pain tollerance than wrist strength meaning that alot of people would not be able to bend due to the pain factor getting to them before there wrist strength is used,does this sound right

I am with you all the way for standards that are world class and in competition,plus for the RED and cert bars as it levels the playing field.

I think like Eric says we would have to have a few cloths to suit bigger handed people and longer bars.

Maybe oneday someone will be tough enough to do a cert bar or even RED bare handed ouch!

[austinslater]

Im with Josh and Rob Vigeant on this. I tried the same thing this afternoon and it make NO difference. Awesome bending and looking forward to seeing more out of you in the future!

Austin

[jad]

Shrug and Terminator, to mention a couple, can bend hard steel by applying massive amounts of wrist power, hands firmly on the bars. You want to be compared to these guys, so why use a technique that many of us consider a violation of the rules outlined on this board?

Gavin Holle's hands hang well off the bar in the pics in MILO. It looks like he's only got about 2 fingers on it, initially. Is he not in the same league as Shrug and Terminator?

When Brookfield's article implied that the Gavin's double overhand bend of the Red was easier and thus inferior to his technique, several people got upset. They were quick to point out that just because Gavin had developed a better technique he shouldn't be criticized. Techniques improve and records fall and some comparisons were made to the evolution of different O-lifting techniques. Now assuming we believe that Eric does indeed have a leverage advantage with his technique(which I don't) we're quick to point out that his bend isn't as good and that if he want's to be in the same league as Terminator and Shrug then he needs to bend like them, with his hands firmly on the nail. Seems a little hypocritical to me.

[austinslater]

Great post Josh!

[jad]

Thanks Boss.

[JS27]

good post jad. you said what was on my mind.

[EricMilfeld]

Well, I couldn't wait any longer, and decided to put some of this to the test. I cut a piece of towel to exactly nine inches wide, placed two three inch strips of the IM pads directly over the cloth, and wrapped up a Red with exactly one inch of cloth extending on both sides. I did feel different, probably because my pinkies weren't grasping cloth, but I still bent a Red. It felt a little tougher than usual, but this could simply be due to the fact that I trained max bends only 24 hours prior. I will say it's a lot more tedious wrapping in this fashion, but I don't really see it affecting my performance to any significant degree. Now as to using two seperate pieces of leather, I do know this would be much harder for me. I've never liked using only two seperate cloths, as they seem to slip around on me.

I say have the rules as they are now written, with perhaps the "one inch rule added", and then start the additonal classification for the leather pad bends, as has apparently already been done.

[bballdad]

Good job Eric! I cut down my rag today and bent with it. Same results as yours.

[EricMilfeld]

You want to be compared to these guys, so why use a technique that many of us consider a violation of the rules outlined on this board?

I don't recall asking to be compared to these great athletes. I'm not asking for anything. I've only bent bars according to the existing rules at that time. Where in the rules, Mikael, does it say you can't push into the nail's end with your hands? What existing rules do you say I've broken?

[austinslater]

Eric like said in an earlier post I had the same results as you did and it seems like others have found this out as well. As sad as it sounds I really question some peoples motives on the board.

Austin

[austinslater]

Sorry for the double post but with the 2x2 inch piece of leather, guys who bend with an underhand style and require more of the hand on the nail would be at a disadvantage and would be forced to bend with part of the hand directly on the nail. Doesnt seem fair to cross a whole group of benders because of this, although Im sure something can be worked out.

[austinslater]

Yes, you have certainly missed something. Let Eric try with a cloth that only extends a little bit beyond the ends of the nail and you will see a different result. Then you can ask yourself how on earth can bending a nail become much harder by removing parts of a cloth that has no direct contact with the bar if no significant leverage was gained by the extra length of the cloth.

Mikael looks like this was done and the results were the same.

Maybe you should test the theory as well and wrap a red up in a beach towel like Josh sugested and bend the red. Good Luck!

[OldGuy]

4. Hand padding can be of any suitable material, cloth, canvas, towel, nylon, etc. but cannot contain any rigid components to add leverage. These will be inspected by referee for compliance. *Material is to protect the hands of the competitor, not to assist by adding leverage. Nail must be wrapped immediately prior to competitor’s attempt in plain view of referee in charge. Allotted time period begins on referee’s start signal, and is up to discretion of contest organizer. ***Record attempts outside of contest should not be subject to time limits as extended rest may be needed between efforts. All other rules are in effect, and nail must be in referee’s plain sight at all times.

As the rules are currently written, nohing is being violated.

[gazza]

At the end ofd the day its upto Dr.Strossen tosay what cloth can and cannot be used for a RED cer.Eric has proved himself with an official RED cert and the rest were/are for the fun of it,so its upto him how he wants to rap his bars.If he wants to compete or do a challenge bar then he will obviously have to use the same rules,bars /equipment etc as are laid out,but if he just wants to have fun,which judging by his face on the ERIC the RED video,then i see no problem in this,he should not have to feel peer pressure or have to work his bending style around the gboard members.

This is part of the reason why the Holles choose not to come on the board or video things,they do it for the fun of it and for themselves and friends,they aint bothered with all the bickering,they just have fun and enjoy accomplishing something for themselves and not for us here on the gboard.

Eric as far as i am concerned,i tip my hat off to you on doing something that i have wanted to achieve for along time and thats bend a RED.

Hell it wasnt long ago that John Brookfield was the king and it was forbidden to even say a bad word about him,now like Joe Kinney it is did he didnt he,can he,cant he,next it will be did Gavin use too much cloth,were enough of his hands on the bar.

I look forward to the day that i too can bend a RED like ERIC,that will be something i will be proud of,and if that day comes and i get laughed at,ridiculled etc,then TOUGH!.

[gazza]

And another thing,my dad always used to say you measure a man by whats inside him,not his accomplishments and ERIC the RED has a MASSIVE HEART

Who else would annalize his bending technique and share his findings with us all,too bad he got such alot of NEGATIVE press.

Eric you keep on enjoying your bending buddy,cause at the end of the day thats all that matters

[austinslater]

Gazza as usual great post. I think its easy to lose focus on what really matters and peer aproval is at the bottom of the list. I comend Eric for putting himself out there and taking the challenge of trying to do it differently even though as others have said his original style wasnt the cause of his success. Numerous people have backed Eric on this. Enough said. Great Job Eric for bending reds 2 days in a row by the way!

[EricMilfeld]

I think we see who has the massive hearts. You guys are great friends, and make this board a lot more meaningful than just a place to swap training ideas. Thank you.

[David Horne]

Eric,

Good on you, bending the Red with the shortened towel.

As everyone knows I have to get the rules good for contests, as with the grippers which we have made harder by putting the 20 mm block in to start with.

As I said in a previous post, there will be the 3 different types 1. Kinking, 2. Normal and 3. Leather pads only. Plenty to go for, and of course no one has to do any of them, and can bend bars and nails in any fashion they want to.

David

[nils]

After a day away from the net I was a bit surprised to see how this has evolved.

There isn't really any doubt that almost all of us wish that we could bend as well as Eric!

But still, Mikael is quite focused on comparisons and contests.

And for any new sport, analysing the great ones and trying to figure out early what can become judging problems and to try to make a set of fair rules that won't need to be changed too often is an important task for those that create a *competitive sport*

This is happening and should continue with all those parts gripping where we wish to have competitions. I don't think that it should be regarded as trying to pull down the great men that we study!