chrisof4 Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 I recently started doing squats and deadlifts. My weights are pretty low (+/- 100lbs), and I have been really trying to use good form. I am looking up, trying to keep my back straight, and lift with my legs. I have not been wearing a belt, because I have read that they are not really necessary, and you back will get stronger without one, especially at the lower weights. Of course with really heavy weights, more support becomes necessary. Anyway, my back went out on me today while I was doing deadlifts. My lower back just buckled on the way down, and I could not even stand up. The whole story is in my training log. I am trying to keep this from happening again, and I have some questions. Any advise is welcome. 1. Should I be wearing a belt? 2. The weight I was lifting felt good, and I thought I could have done more. However, my back disagreed. I don't know how I could have known my back was getting ready to give. My form was good on the way up, and I thought it was good on the way down, but I don't have anyone to workout with that can monitor my form. I am concerned about the next time I lift, how to know if the weight is too much. I don't want to be lifting too light, but I definately never want to go through today's pain either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianders1 Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 (edited) Chris, I'm not a doctor or anything, but that really doesn't sound good. Either your form is still bad (try a video camera as a witness) or you've really injured your back and you're not ready for deadlifts, etc. Where are you feeling the pain (upper,lower,middle back)? Also, lower weights, while good that they weigh less, increase the range of motion because the bar is lower to the floor. You may want to try putting the bar/weights up on something to raise them. Honestly, though, if you're having pain with 100lbs, I'd drop squats, deadlifts, standing calf raises, sit-ups, leg press, etc., - pretty much anything that stresses the lower back. I'd rest, ice, and take anti-inflammatories for a while, then start with supermans on the floor, then work up to back (hyper)extensions, although unlike the name, be sure not to hyperextend. From there, I'd slowly add weight until you can do them with a 25lb plate. Once you can do that without pain, then I'd think about resuming stuff. If you're back is hurting several days after your workout, I'd strongly urge you to see a doctor, or at the very least a chiropractor. If I remember, you're a young guy and you don't want to have a bad back for the rest of your life. Be very carefull. I threw out my back when I was 18 doing heavy standing calf raises, and it took me at least 6 months of back extensions to get back to having a healthy back again. Good luck. Edited April 11, 2004 by ianders1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisof4 Posted April 11, 2004 Author Share Posted April 11, 2004 Thanks for the feedback, Ianders. The pain is all in my lower back. The idea about the supermans and hyperextensions is a good one. Once I am recovered, I will try these. I am 35 years old, and I have always had problems with my lower back. It is one of the reasons I decided to begin an overall program of body strengthening. I have been to the doctor in the past, and x-rays show I don't have any spinal problems. I guess the muscles there are just not that strong. Almost a day later, I feel a lot better already. Once I recover, I will slowly begin strengthening that area. Then, when I am ready for deadlifts and squats again, I will have one of the personal trainers at the gym help me with my form. Thanks for the ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianders1 Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Chris, I guess I had you confused - my bad. I'm sorry to hear about the continued back troubles. Another thing you'll want to keep in mind is the muscle balance between the abs and back extensors. If they are out of balance, that will make things much worse. To work the abs without back pain, there are a couple of things you can do. Start by laying on you back, flat on the floor. Flex your abs, so that the small of your back touches the floor. This works your abs with virtually no lower back strain. Then you can work up to crunches, incline crunches, and swiss ball work. I highly recommend The Complete Book of Abs. It's got a whole chapter on the lower back, and it rates all of the exercises in relation to their risk on the lower back. It's also got great nutrition and fitness tips. It's a good read, and you can find it at most bookstores, so there's no need to buy it if you don't have the cash. Just drop by Borders and read Chapter 6. Again, good luck and be patient. To be honest, after throwing out my back, it was months before I could sit in a chair comfortably, but it took at least a year before I was comfortably lifting heavy weights. Also, with a history of back trouble, I'd really advise staying away from deadlifting and squats until you are confident that your back is strong. You're really just asking for trouble with both exercises. They are really hard on the back even for people with strong, healthy backs. Trust me, back extensions (while not looking as manly) will build up the back extensors just as well, if not better because of the extended range of motion. Just take your time - start with the floor exercises, then slowly work up to crunches and back extensions. If you feel pain, rest, then back off the weight/tougher exercise, and slowly try to work back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisof4 Posted April 11, 2004 Author Share Posted April 11, 2004 I will check out that book. It sounds useful for me. I guess I was just trying to do too much too soon. Honestly, I started doing squats and deadlifts with the intention of strengthening my back, but it looks like I will have to start with something less stressful. It looks like my hopes of doing any type of strongman stuff are a few years off. Fortunately, this does not happen to me very often. It has been at least a year since I last threw out my back. I really believe if I just find a way to strengthen my lower back muscles, this will continue to happen less and less. Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. This is exactly the type of feedback I was looking for when I posted this message. I knew the gripboard would be able to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianders1 Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. This is exactly the type of feedback I was looking for when I posted this message. I knew the gripboard would be able to help. No problem - I mostly get advice, but I try to give back when I can. That's what makes this place so great . If you're spine is Ok, you'll do strongman someday, it's just something you'll have to work up to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Cristo2 Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 1. Should I be wearing a belt?2. The weight I was lifting felt good, and I thought I could have done more. However, my back disagreed. I don't know how I could have known my back was getting ready to give. My form was good on the way up, and I thought it was good on the way down, but I don't have anyone to workout with that can monitor my form. I am concerned about the next time I lift, how to know if the weight is too much. I don't want to be lifting too light, but I definately never want to go through today's pain either. Hyperextensions and ab work are very good ideas. I would do some of each before squating or dead lifting. They will warm up the core for heavier work. Since you are fairly new to squats and deadlifts. I think a belt could help you. There are several reasons. When you use a belt you take a breath and expand your abs pushing into the belt. This splints and supports the lower back and keeps it straight. For a new squater or dead lifter it is difficult to automatically tighten the proper muscles for support escpecially when lifting without support. A belt will actually help you develop this skill. As you develop the ability to properly set yourself and pre tense your muscles it will be easier to safely lift without a belt. If you have a belt, you should use it and concentrate on pushing you abs against it as you lift. As a matter of fact it would be a good idea to always use a belt for squats and deadlifts. At 35 or over with cronic back problems it is a good idea for safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danegarreau Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Chris, sorry to hear about the back troubles. As far as not getting injured again i really only have a couple of good pieces of advice. 1. Make sure your form is perfect -watch videos of powerlifters and other strength athletes on the internet. Take a good look at their form. Bad form is often the cause of injuries while lifting. If i had it all to do over again this is the one thing i would change in my lifting career. When i first started i lifted at school and nobody knew what they were doing, neither did i, and we all used pretty bad form. I wish i could go back and get somebody that knew something about lifting to teach me the correct form. 2. Stretch -Make sure you are flexable enough to be able to use the correct form. Hope this helped, hope you can get through this injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I recently started doing squats and deadlifts. My weights are pretty low (+/- 100lbs), and I have been really trying to use good form. I am looking up, trying to keep my back straight, and lift with my legs. I have not been wearing a belt, because I have read that they are not really necessary, and you back will get stronger without one, especially at the lower weights. Of course with really heavy weights, more support becomes necessary. Anyway, my back went out on me today while I was doing deadlifts. My lower back just buckled on the way down, and I could not even stand up. The whole story is in my training log. I am trying to keep this from happening again, and I have some questions. Any advise is welcome. 1. Should I be wearing a belt? 2. The weight I was lifting felt good, and I thought I could have done more. However, my back disagreed. I don't know how I could have known my back was getting ready to give. My form was good on the way up, and I thought it was good on the way down, but I don't have anyone to workout with that can monitor my form. I am concerned about the next time I lift, how to know if the weight is too much. I don't want to be lifting too light, but I definately never want to go through today's pain either. the same thing happened to me when i was dead-lifting. it just gave, i layed on the floor for 10min. my wife came and picked me up. like yours, it was light weight, i was doing reps when the eight one stoped me. well i went to the chiropractor like, 10min.' later. x-ray's showed i have a tilted pelvis. i dont know how i got it? could be from lot's of golf swings, or dead-lifting itself. but it healed the pain going to him and getting adjusted. i haven't had a problem since, but it always feels like i'm one lift away from doing it again. at work i deliver beer, and the halfs are like 155lbs. or so. my back get's alot of work and is still holding up! so go to the doc, and nip it in the bud. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Chris, Standing ab work is also a good way to train abs without putting tto much pressure on your back. Just grab a pulldown bar/cable crossover setup facing the weight stack and contract the abs while standing. You can add some weight with this move that helps you to progress from light to heav(ier). Also, do the squats hurt your back? If not, when you get stronger, squats could be a good movement to add in that will help strengthen your back and provide a good base for heavier work. Its hard giving advise because we don't know where exactly you are weak at. For instance hyper extensions are good but if you simply lock your low back it might end up working your hamstrings only. So personally, my advise would be (after you've rested for a little while longer and seen a doc) try to cycle in a few different types of back/ab excersizes. For example, do hypers for a few weeks, do pullthroughs, maybe squats, maybe partial range deads. Each for a few weeks trying to work the back differently and to build a base, with light weights and enough rest and all that. If any feel bad, don't do them and work to something else. Pulldowns themselves are also a good way to strengthen the whole back/abs without stressing the lower back too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Parker Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Chris, I feel for you. I have had back problems for a while now, and about 8 months ago I pinched the cyatica (not sure on the spelling) nerve in my back. It put me flat on my back for a week without moving, and then another 3 months before I could pick up anything heavy. Well, I decided I had enough hurting my back and tried to do all kinds of exercises to strengthen my back, but it would still get hurt again as soon as I went back to deadlifting. Finally I hit on what the problem was. My abs. When I was hurting my back, I could hardly do 10 situps on the decline situp board. Now I can do them for minutes at a time while holding a 35er. Since then I have never even had a twinge! I would suggest trying to get your abs as strong as you can. Stick in there pal, I know its frustrating to not be able to do anything, but the longer you wait to go back to lifting, the better it will be for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisof4 Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 Thanks to everyone for the replies. I have gotten a lot of good information. AP, The squats don't appear to hurt my back, however, I did not experience any discomfort with the deadlifts either, until my back went out. I do feel stronger with the squats, and since I am using a sliding rack, my range of motion is a little more limited. That may help me keep better form. I have had several people mention that my abs might be the problem, and they might be right. It certainly won't hurt to add some ab strengthening exercises into my routine. My recovery is progressing quickly. I could not bend my back at all on Saturday, and today, I can actually demonstrate the position I was in when the injury happened. I can also bend over and pick up my keys if I drop them. I am continuing to wear my back brace, and treat with ibuprofin, and heat packs. Thanks again to everyone for your input and suggestions. Hopefully, once I recover from this, I can put together a plan to keep this from happening again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan McMillan Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Chris, My back is wonky too, usually goes out as you described once or twice a year on me. I've slowly learned over time that if I only focus on one of those lifts at a time my back is stable for longer training periods. Knock on wood but I think it's been over a year since my back has gotten really screwed up/there's been a few days when I have been close though. So here's some ideas in point form from my Point of view. -maybe try alternating squats one week deadlifts the next -use a belt for your heavy sets -do some partial range lifts to get the body use to the weight with a belt -if I could do it all over again I would get a qualified coach to train me in the olympic lifts so that lack of functional flexibilty wouldn't be an issue with injurys. Jon@han Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisof4 Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 Those are great ideas and suggestions, Jonathan. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroman Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Chris, I used to throw my back out too doing squats and deadlifts. There were three things that helped me. 1. Learn proper form. I don't have anyone to watch me either but I read as much as I could from the www.elitefts.com sight. They suggest, among other things, to arch your back as hard as you can when you do the lifts. This has helped me a lot. 2. Strengthen your posterior chain. More to read about on the above sight. 3. Most important: Seeing a chiropractor who practices the NUCCA technique. Go to www.nucca.org to read about it and find a practitioner in your area. I think so highly of this technique my wife and I drove 360 miles round trip about every other month for 2 years to see one of these chiropractors until one started a practice in my home town. I had back surgery seven years ago on my lower back and with the chiropractor have not had any problems since. I don't lift huge weights like some of these guys but I can squat 250lbs deep with no belt and deadlift 275 with no belt and not have any problems. Hope this helps, Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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