EricMilfeld Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 (edited) I just want to share a personal experience in hopes that it might be helpful to someone out there in Bendland. Two days ago I struggled like crazy to bend my second ever Red Nail. In fact, it required a two hour rest in between attempts to finally finish it off. A big part of the problem was the nail bursting through the towel shortly after getting the initial kink. The torn flesh and blood was enough to subject poor Chris to a mini rampage on my part. Anyways, earlier today at work I was considering all of this (obsessing big time), and came up with a few possible solutions. And they worked! First off, I now not only first wrap the nail in Kevlar before applying the towel, but I've taken to cutting the Kevlar in two, to prevent binding in the later stages of the bend. Works like a charm. No bloody hands. Secondly, a minor technique modification. I really wish you guys were here so I could show you, but here it goes. When I take the nail up top, double overhand style, immediately after the initial slight kink, I now grip it slightly different. I still only grab it with my first two fingers of each hand, with the nail's tip pushing into my thumb pad, but now I've taken to loosening up my grip a bit. Or more accurately, instead of gripping it in such a way that my hands are forced to be positioned more towards a perpendicular alignment with the nail, I now tilt my hands off to the sides of the nail. So now my fingers are in more of an open position with the nail, though I still grip it very tight. The results blew me away. My wife caught me on camera bending a Red in about one minute and forty seconds. Which for me is fast. And yes, I'm arranging to have the video shown on The Number One Place for Grip! Edited March 29, 2004 by EricMilfeld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Awesome job Eric !! :rock Talk about fast as light progress !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJones Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Awesome progress Eric!! I was going to cut up a bit of kevlar this afternoon to add to the first few inches of towel that I wrap around the nail - noticed my wraps have been getting "torn" at the ends of the nail - haven't had a rip through yet and don't want to. Technique gets refined at higher and higher levels of performance - thanks for sharing your improvements - it will help us new guys a lot! Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bballdad Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Good stuff Eric!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the swiss Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 thanks for the tips. I have experienced the nail going through the rag into my flesh, no fun (even if it wasn't really bad). lots of blood. congrats on the red keep inspiring us!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Styles Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I use a coarse mill file to round the edges of the ironmind nails to prevent them from cutting through the cloth. It isn't an official bend, but it is easier on the hands. I got the file from Menards for about $8. It takes 1-2 minutes to well round both sides of the nail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekx Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Eric, with the loosening of the grip after the intial kink, aren't you worried about the nail slipping and causing injury. Great idea about the Kevlare underneath the rag, btw. Have you considered using leather? I can't wait to see your video. Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I use a coarse mill file to round the edges of the ironmind nails to prevent them from cutting through the cloth. It isn't an official bend, but it is easier on the hands. I don't think there's any reason to disallow this, you are "shortening" the nail and not lengthening it or otherwise making it easier. I think filing the ends is the fine and no reason to take away the 'official' status of a bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strongmitts Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 It's really ironic because I was thinking about that very same thing just the other day. When we were bending together on friday and I was attempting the double over portion with that 350lb 60D and you were telling me to "grip it tight". I was thinking to myself then and later, that I don't in fact grip it tight, but have more of an open hand position. I didn't purposely do this but this is just how it felt "right". With my previous pec injury I like to have the humerus adducted (in towards body) as much as possible to eliminate pec involvement in in that fully abducted (away from body) range of motion. With a tight grip on the nail you must abduct the humerus to a greater degree to start the crush down, than with a more open grip. Another thing is, this technique is probably not as common in guys that use clothes as opposed to the kevlar pads because the cloth doesn't have enough padding on the very end of the nail/bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted March 29, 2004 Author Share Posted March 29, 2004 Eric, with the loosening of the grip after the intial kink, aren't you worried about the nail slipping and causing injury.Great idea about the Kevlare underneath the rag, btw. Have you considered using leather? I'm not really worried about slipping because the nail is being pushed into my thumb pads directly. I've been assuming that filing the ends would not be allowed for certification. I've been hesitant to ask Randy, as I've been buggin him a lot lately about the certification process. But once I get certified, you can bet I'll be taking my grinder to the Reds. The leather may be considered cheating. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Excellent progress Eric! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Edgin Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I still only grab it with my first two fingers of each hand, with the nail's tip pushing into my thumb pad You know, this could be the missing link in my own bending progress. I have been putting my hands so close together on the nail that my index fingers touch and fighting like hell to get anything bent. It makes the bend harder, but not in a good way! lol I will have to wrap some 60d nails and have a go at them. Anyone want to get rid of their kevlar cloths? As for leather, I don't think they are cheating but that's just me. Woodchuck made this little leather sleeve that fits over the tip of a nail and I never get poked in my palm anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorman Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 RE: It makes the bend harder, but not in a good way! What's wrong with that? You don't want to be caught doing "baby bends" now, Clay..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Edgin Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Jesus Christ, you make one joke about a guy's love of the Powerpuff Girls and he never forgives you...get over it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcham Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 This technique of having the hand slightly open and pushing inwards on ends of the bars is what I find myself doing too.... but I'm not sure if I feel good about it It works, but feels like a chest crush the whole way... after initial kink of course. And I have to pad the ends of the nail pretty heavily or I'd hurt myself. I find myself wishing I could do it with pure wrist strength... then, if I were game, I could probably bend it without the padding. Using an "open hand" and pushing inwards wouldn't be possible without padding unless you had skin like steel! How did the old timers bend short bars? Did they use wraps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Nice bend! I am however, against the use of multiple materials in one and the same bend. The combination of kevlar and a soft outer material like a cloth may take away an element from the bend that has always been part of it; pain when substituting wrist strength with pectoral strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJones Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Mikael, The purpose of a small addition of kevlar is for safety - it takes none of the pain away - except that which may happen when a nail goes through your hand. The pieces of kevlar cloth I used were less than 3"x3" (more like 2"x3") - Safety first. Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Instead of potentially open up a can of worms (what is preventing us from using three different types of approved materials in one bend or even more?); would it not be better to file off the sharp edges, like the challenge bars? I think we are moving around in a grey zone as far as the rules are concerned. I mean, why stop at kevlar+a towel padding the ends? Why not kevlar, then a towel and then perhaps kevlar again? Or a specially home made towel with multiple layers of various fabrics, each one approved on their own merits. It may sound far fetched right now but we may be there sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I think what we're forgetting is that the more materials or padding one uses the less force they are applying to the nail/bar. So while the pain factor might be taken out with more padding the strength level will have to go up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJones Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Mikael, I think I get the spirit of what you are saying - in that we don't want bending to become something "equipment" dominated like other situations - but taking a precaution against injury is not an issue in my mind. You cannot train and get stronger if you are injured. And the variety of bending styles - not all of them are wrist dominated styles - are they "lesser" bends? As long as the bend is unbraced - above the waist and less than 2" - that is a "legal" bend. Hope this comes across in the spirit it is intended - not a flame - just continuing a good discussion. Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I would disagree. With elaborate padding, mixing kevlar and cotton towels, you will be able to apply maximum pectoral force straight after the initial wrist induced kink. Without the kevlar you will have to rely more on wrist strength and less on pectoral strength to get the bar moving towards a safrer angle as you will not be able to apply all your pectoral strength by pushing with your palms almost at a right angle as described by Eric, without hurting yourself. Especially not with the rough ends on IM's bars. Eric basically found a way of substituting some of the wrist strength with pectoral strength. I see no problem with this in itself. However, I do see a bit of a problem if this shift from wrist to pec power, was brought about by use of a combination of different materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ostlund Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I don't think people will start using tons of wrapping on their bends for two reasons. First, when there is a lot more padding, the bar will have a greater tendency to slip or not stay put in the position you want it. Secondly, during the last pahse of the crushdown you want as little padding as possible so that the excess does not bunch up between the ends. Getting graded bolts to 2" can be almost impossible if there is too much towel getting in the way of the ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 If you have several layers of kevlar mixed with towel you could still remove a desired number of layers for the final crush down. People will find a way around the rules if they are not very strict, especially with bending becoming a permanent part of grip competitions (not to mention competitions with price money). However, if all of you are happy allowing a mix of two or more materials in a bend, then I suppose we don't have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJones Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 The Kelvar towel I received (in my Ironmind bag of nails) is anything but soft and does not add any "padding" - but the nail will not go through them. Enhanced safety is the goal. One towel, two towels, wash rags, tea cloths, etc. Wrist, Pec, etc... the force produced to bend the nail still travels through the arms - through the wrists and to the nail - just different ways to get there. Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 The Kelvar towel I received (in my Ironmind bag of nails) is anything but soft and does not add any "padding" - but the nail will not go through them. Yes, they are clever. First they offer bars with very sharp and rough edges and then they want you to also buy the much needed kevlar (no you are not getting it for free). Maximizes profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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