2023 International King Kong Grip Challenge - REVISED RESULTS

[sbogotopov]

I understand that the "testimony" of the inhabitants of this site is exceptional evidence. As for me, I only believe in what I saw with my own eyes. And I never dispute the recognized results. If someone has deceived someone, let it be on his conscience

[Vinny F]

11 minutes ago, sbogotopov said:

I understand that the "testimony" of the inhabitants of this site is exceptional evidence. As for me, I only believe in what I saw with my own eyes. And I never dispute the recognized results. If someone has deceived someone, let it be on his conscience

What do you attribute the huge increase in performance to, specifically?  And what is the yellow substance on the block? Is there a link to buy yellow magnesium carbonate?

[sbogotopov]

1 minute ago, Vinny F said:

What do you attribute the huge increase in performance to, specifically?  And what is the yellow substance on the block? Is there a link to buy yellow magnesium carbonate?

firstly, I don't see any huge increase in all movements and in all athletes. here, look, this is a link to the top results in jug: https://www.gripsport.org/lists.php?list=1&gender=1&event=287&country=all&measurement=

in 2018, Ivan, weighing up to 93 kg, lifted 127. 5 years have passed, he increased his own weight and lifted 167. at the same time, all his other results also increased. secondly, the competitions were held in two days. I personally was not present when Ivan, Ilya and Dmitry lifted. so I can't say why the block appears yellow

[Vinny F]

6 minutes ago, sbogotopov said:

firstly, I don't see any huge increase in all movements and in all athletes. here, look, this is a link to the top results in jug: https://www.gripsport.org/lists.php?list=1&gender=1&event=287&country=all&measurement=

in 2018, Ivan, weighing up to 93 kg, lifted 127. 5 years have passed, he increased his own weight and lifted 167. at the same time, all his other results also increased. secondly, the competitions were held in two days. I personally was not present when Ivan, Ilya and Dmitry lifted. so I can't say why the block appears yellow

Explain Makarov pinch block insane increase in 1 yr...

 

Assuming then you were there 1st day and block was white...it doesn't raise the question to you as to why yellow would be on an implement that people use white chalk on?  Did you ask if your so close to those who were there?

 

 

[sbogotopov]

2 minutes ago, Vinny F said:

Explain Makarov pinch block insane increase in 1 yr...

 

Assuming then you were there 1st day and block was white...it doesn't raise the question to you as to why yellow would be on an implement that people use white chalk on?  Did you ask if your so close to those who were there?

 

 

I also have a lot of questions. one of them is where to see the record lifts for men (top 3), for women, and also for children? or, should I trust only the final protocol?

[insane.warrior]

Dmitry Lappalainen results summary (the third guy from Gatchina, Russia) :

2.25” Crusher

KK 2022 - 80.04 kg

KK 2023 - 101.40 kg

 

Finnish Ball

KK 2022 - 30 kg

KK 2023 - 42.30 kg

 

Pinch blocks

KK 2022 - Flask (±56 mm) - 30.3 kg

KK 2023 - IM Block Buster (76 mm) - 62.20 kg (while IronMind WR by Harri Tolonen is 51.4 kg)

https://www.ironmind.com/certification/blockbuster-pinch-grip-block/rules-world-records/

 

V-bars

KK 2022 - LBH - 62 kg

KK 2023 - 2.5'' Jug - 116.75 kg

 

Impressive strength, I'd say.

Edited October 31, 2023 by insane.warrior

[sbogotopov]

Yes, he's making good progress, I agree. I think he could add a couple more kilograms to the Finnish ball, his pinch grip is very good

[insane.warrior]

2 minutes ago, sbogotopov said:

Yes, he's making good progress, I agree. I think he could add a couple more kilograms to the Finnish ball, his pinch grip is very good

No, he does not 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by insane.warrior

[sbogotopov]

6 minutes ago, insane.warrior said:

No, he does not 

 

Okay, let's get this sorted out. have you seen for yourself that he can't do it? is there glue applied on the block, and the fingers do not come off? is there sandpaper glued there? It's like a joke. 
the husband says to his wife: — Your logic should be sent to war.
- why?
— She kills... you just have an iron logic: it can't be, because it can't be. . I understand you

[insane.warrior]

have you seen for yourself that he can do it?

have you seen someone adds 15+ kg to their PR in 3 months on pinch grip implement not being a newbie?

something's wrong with your logic

Edited October 31, 2023 by insane.warrior

[Vinny F]

26 minutes ago, sbogotopov said:

I also have a lot of questions. one of them is where to see the record lifts for men (top 3), for women, and also for children? or, should I trust only the final protocol?

Red Herring Fallacy

[dubyagrip]

here's my block lift

here is a 47.7kg locked out block lift on a less seasoned block than what was used at competition 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by dubyagrip

[sbogotopov]

4 minutes ago, Vinny F said:

Red Herring Fallacy

sorry? do I understand correctly that the Red Herring Fallacy is that the videos are not uploaded?

[sbogotopov]

3 minutes ago, dubyagrip said:

here's my block lift

 

Yes, no questions at all. I already wrote that I found this video

[insane.warrior]

1 minute ago, sbogotopov said:

sorry? do I understand correctly that the Red Herring Fallacy is that the videos are not uploaded?

google

[dubyagrip]

Just now, sbogotopov said:

Yes, no questions at all. I already wrote that I found this video

Good. Thanks.

[Eric Roussin]

Sergey, the decision I made was not taken lightly. I am aware of Krivykh and Makarov’s success in Armlifting – they are very strong individuals. Perhaps strong enough to win King Kong legitimately. But not by the margins they set over the weekend. Their historic results simply don’t bear this out – the increases are too large in too short of a time. Even with mechanical differences considered. It’s not impossible for me to believe that they can break world records, but it’s very hard for me to believe that they could break them by such amounts, given the number of extremely strong individuals who have lifted these same implements over the years. It’s not normal to beat overall world records by 10, 20, or 30+ kg. Even if competitors gain body weight. 

I was very torn on Sunday, as my initial review of the videos provided by Dima looked good to me from a technical standpoint. So because I couldn’t see anything wrong, I decided to post the results, even though I felt it was very likely that there was something I was missing. Looking back, it was a mistake for me to rush to release them and I regret doing so. Within a few hours, several others reviewed the videos and noticed something interesting about some of the lifts. The biggest indication of usage of some type of adhesive was noticed on Krivykh and Makarov’s pinch block lifts. If you look closely when they set their hand on the device, you can see that their fingers move in an unnatural way – like they were sticking to the device. With the sound turned up, you can even hear it. Of the four events, this is the event where some sort of adhesive would have the greatest effect. Three men at the Gatchina venue lifted weights close to 10 kg over the world record. And, as far as I’m aware, none of these individuals had a history of lifting similar weights in this type of exercise. While I cannot 100% prove that there was foul play (and it’s impossible for me to do), I feel very confident that there was.

I sincerely doubt that everyone at the Gatchina venue was involved in or even aware of the deception that was occurring. You’ve indicated in a post that the competition was run over two days, a detail that wasn’t communicated to me. If Lappalainen, Makarov, and Krivykh competed separately from the rest of the group, then this further makes me believe others were unaware. Unfortunately, because I can’t know with certainty what was done with the equipment and when it was done, I felt excluding the entire venue’s results was necessary.

It is very unfortunate that your family and others’ results may have been excluded through no fault of your own. But given the circumstances, I think your disappointment should be directed at the main suspects, more so than at me.

Did I make the right decision? I feel that I did. Am I 100% certain about exactly what happened. I am not. Am I disappointed with how everything unfolded? Absolutely.

I’m going to need to give a lot of thought about how to proceed with future contests, because clearly improvements are required.

Sergey, I wish you well and am sorry you and your family experienced this.

[sbogotopov]

10 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

Sergey, the decision I made was not taken lightly. I am aware of Krivykh and Makarov’s success in Armlifting – they are very strong individuals. Perhaps strong enough to win King Kong legitimately. But not by the margins they set over the weekend. Their historic results simply don’t bear this out – the increases are too large in too short of a time. Even with mechanical differences considered. It’s not impossible for me to believe that they can break world records, but it’s very hard for me to believe that they could break them by such amounts, given the number of extremely strong individuals who have lifted these same implements over the years. It’s not normal to beat overall world records by 10, 20, or 30+ kg. Even if competitors gain body weight. 

I was very torn on Sunday, as my initial review of the videos provided by Dima looked good to me from a technical standpoint. So because I couldn’t see anything wrong, I decided to post the results, even though I felt it was very likely that there was something I was missing. Looking back, it was a mistake for me to rush to release them and I regret doing so. Within a few hours, several others reviewed the videos and noticed something interesting about some of the lifts. The biggest indication of usage of some type of adhesive was noticed on Krivykh and Makarov’s pinch block lifts. If you look closely when they set their hand on the device, you can see that their fingers move in an unnatural way – like they were sticking to the device. With the sound turned up, you can even hear it. Of the four events, this is the event where some sort of adhesive would have the greatest effect. Three men at the Gatchina venue lifted weights close to 10 kg over the world record. And, as far as I’m aware, none of these individuals had a history of lifting similar weights in this type of exercise. While I cannot 100% prove that there was foul play (and it’s impossible for me to do), I feel very confident that there was.

I sincerely doubt that everyone at the Gatchina venue was involved in or even aware of the deception that was occurring. You’ve indicated in a post that the competition was run over two days, a detail that wasn’t communicated to me. If Lappalainen, Makarov, and Krivykh competed separately from the rest of the group, then this further makes me believe others were unaware. Unfortunately, because I can’t know with certainty what was done with the equipment and when it was done, I felt excluding the entire venue’s results was necessary.

It is very unfortunate that your family and others’ results may have been excluded through no fault of your own. But given the circumstances, I think your disappointment should be directed at the main suspects, more so than at me.

Did I make the right decision? I feel that I did. Am I 100% certain about exactly what happened. I am not. Am I disappointed with how everything unfolded? Absolutely.

I’m going to need to give a lot of thought about how to proceed with future contests, because clearly improvements are required.

Sergey, I wish you well and am sorry you and your family experienced this.

Eric, thanks! I think after a time everything will fall into place

[Vinnie]

20 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

Sergey, the decision I made was not taken lightly. I am aware of Krivykh and Makarov’s success in Armlifting – they are very strong individuals. Perhaps strong enough to win King Kong legitimately. But not by the margins they set over the weekend. Their historic results simply don’t bear this out – the increases are too large in too short of a time. Even with mechanical differences considered. It’s not impossible for me to believe that they can break world records, but it’s very hard for me to believe that they could break them by such amounts, given the number of extremely strong individuals who have lifted these same implements over the years. It’s not normal to beat overall world records by 10, 20, or 30+ kg. Even if competitors gain body weight. 

I was very torn on Sunday, as my initial review of the videos provided by Dima looked good to me from a technical standpoint. So because I couldn’t see anything wrong, I decided to post the results, even though I felt it was very likely that there was something I was missing. Looking back, it was a mistake for me to rush to release them and I regret doing so. Within a few hours, several others reviewed the videos and noticed something interesting about some of the lifts. The biggest indication of usage of some type of adhesive was noticed on Krivykh and Makarov’s pinch block lifts. If you look closely when they set their hand on the device, you can see that their fingers move in an unnatural way – like they were sticking to the device. With the sound turned up, you can even hear it. Of the four events, this is the event where some sort of adhesive would have the greatest effect. Three men at the Gatchina venue lifted weights close to 10 kg over the world record. And, as far as I’m aware, none of these individuals had a history of lifting similar weights in this type of exercise. While I cannot 100% prove that there was foul play (and it’s impossible for me to do), I feel very confident that there was.

I sincerely doubt that everyone at the Gatchina venue was involved in or even aware of the deception that was occurring. You’ve indicated in a post that the competition was run over two days, a detail that wasn’t communicated to me. If Lappalainen, Makarov, and Krivykh competed separately from the rest of the group, then this further makes me believe others were unaware. Unfortunately, because I can’t know with certainty what was done with the equipment and when it was done, I felt excluding the entire venue’s results was necessary.

It is very unfortunate that your family and others’ results may have been excluded through no fault of your own. But given the circumstances, I think your disappointment should be directed at the main suspects, more so than at me.

Did I make the right decision? I feel that I did. Am I 100% certain about exactly what happened. I am not. Am I disappointed with how everything unfolded? Absolutely.

I’m going to need to give a lot of thought about how to proceed with future contests, because clearly improvements are required.

Sergey, I wish you well and am sorry you and your family experienced this.

Eric is extremely gracious in his approach.  I would be a little more blunt.  The evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that the top lifts were invalid.  It is obvious that organized cheating took place.  Given what evidence we CAN see, just in the videos and in noting the much lower lifts these athletes were posting not long ago, I suspect (and would bet money, if there were a way to be assured of the result) that the cheating was actually more widespread than just what we see on the video.  The fact that you are so forcefully defending the obvious cheaters brings you under that suspicion as well.  I have NO evidence that YOU cheated, and I am not accusing you of it, but your reaction does not seem to line up with how a person would feel if they had been unwittingly betrayed by cheaters.  Why defend them?  As Eric said, you should direct your anger at your son losing out on his first competition at the obvious cheaters for tainting the venue, not at Eric for disavowing the venue that they spoiled.  The promoter should have stopped that from happening.  I have had my own results in a competition (for money) disallowed because the promoter did not judge the lifts correctly, and I was mad at the promoter, not at the organization.

Eric made the right decision.  I would hope that he bans that promoter from future competitions as well, although he may be more generous than that.  This was shameful.  You should distance yourself from it, not defend it.  Eric has my support and I hope most of the grip community as well.

[Vinnie]

22 minutes ago, sbogotopov said:

they are very strong individuals

My comments above about the cheating are not meant to imply that these guys are not strong.  They may even have been strong enough to win without cheating.  They should have tried it!

[Vinnie]

34 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

Sergey, I wish you well and am sorry you and your family experienced this.

Me, too.  If you and your son were just competing honestly, and excited to see how you did, I am very sorry you lost that opportunity and you certainly did not deserve to be betrayed that way.  If you know the people involved you should be wary of competing with them again, so that this does not happen in a future year.  I know how it feels to have results cancelled.  It feels like a waste.

[Vinnie]

8 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

I have had my own results in a competition (for money) disallowed because the promoter did not judge the lifts correctly, and I was mad at the promoter, not at the organization.

In that case, it wasn't even intentional and no one there thought they were breaking records - it was just the promoter not knowing how to judge a new lift.  It was still disallowed, and no one thought it should have been counted.  This was just ignorance, without even trying to cheat.  What happened in KK was much more sinister.

[sbogotopov]

1 minute ago, Vinnie said:

In that case, it wasn't even intentional and no one there thought they were breaking records - it was just the promoter not knowing how to judge a new lift.  It was still disallowed, and no one thought it should have been counted.  This was just ignorance, without even trying to cheat.  What happened in KK was much more sinister.

look, there will always be people who are jealous. I remember when I officially closed coc3, people immediately came up and demanded to cancel the result. Because I didn't swipe the card. OK, I talked to Randall, he allowed me to try again. I closed it without set, just swiped the card and closed it again. when I picked up Inch's replica (silarukov) and posted the video on the Internet, there were immediately people who began to say that it was fake,because I had never tried before. there will always be envious people. this is the nature of people. fortunately, not all people

[dubyagrip]

17 minutes ago, sbogotopov said:

look, there will always be people who are jealous. I remember when I officially closed coc3, people immediately came up and demanded to cancel the result. Because I didn't swipe the card. OK, I talked to Randall, he allowed me to try again. I closed it without set, just swiped the card and closed it again. when I picked up Inch's replica (silarukov) and posted the video on the Internet, there were immediately people who began to say that it was fake,because I had never tried before. there will always be envious people. this is the nature of people. fortunately, not all people

I believe 60kg pinch block lifts are possible, and I hope to break that barrier soon.  My concerns were not about losing.  My concerns were that the implements were obviously sticky, and I was not alone in recognizing it.  Dima, Ivan, and Ilia are strong men, no doubt, which is why this was even more distressing.

I will apologize for seemingly accusing everyone at this venue of deception.  It was my understanding the three men competed separately, as you stated.

Edited October 31, 2023 by dubyagrip

[sbogotopov]

4 minutes ago, sbogotopov said:

look, there will always be people who are jealous. I remember when I officially closed coc3, people immediately came up and demanded to cancel the result. Because I didn't swipe the card. OK, I talked to Randall, he allowed me to try again. I closed it without set, just swiped the card and closed it again. when I picked up Inch's replica (silarukov) and posted the video on the Internet, there were immediately people who began to say that it was fake,because I had never tried before. there will always be envious people. this is the nature of people. fortunately, not all people

when at kk 2021 my eldest daughter at the age of 14 lifted 45 kg on rolling, I thought that the result would be annulled. Because a girl can't let more than a woman! But, we must pay tribute, everything was fair there and the result was entered in the table of records. and he was in first place in the category of women up to 63 kg. this year I was afraid that they would not believe in the result of my son, who is 6 years old and who lifts more than his sisters at 10. but, fortunately, everything turned out to be much easier and I don't want to be more dependent on whether they believe in the results or not.