Wider spring = Higher RGC?

[AdriaanRobert96]

So I’ve been told that spring width says a lot about a gripper, for instance a wider gripper = a higher RGC..

Took a look at my super heavy #3 with an RGC of 160-165, and the width was exactly 80mm/ 3.15 inches..

Feels like a dang brick

Edited May 18, 2023 by AdriaanRobert96

[jchapman]

2 hours ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

So I’ve been told that spring width says a lot about a gripper, for instance a wider gripper = a higher RGC..

Took a look at my super heavy #3 with an RGC of 160-165, and the width was exactly 80mm/ 3.15 inches..

Feels like a dang brick

Are you talking about the spread between the handles?

[AdriaanRobert96]

19 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Are you talking about the spread between the handles?

@jchapman Yeah exactly, spread at the bottom

[Fist of Fury]

It can be an indicator that the gripper is in the higher range but it's not a deciding factor, there are grippers in the lower range with wide spread as well. However a gripper with a wider spread will always be harder than a gripper with more narrow spread when the RGC is the same. So the spread is a very important factor but it does not always affect the RGC to any significant extent. The gripper you have is a very unusual #3 and the wide spread of it can actually be the reason it feels that hard, it might not even rate above 160. But because of the really wide spread it feels harder.

This is also the reason I think TSG's are not to be used in competition, it's more than just a rating number that matters. Much better to use adjustable, everyone uses the exact same gripper.

Spring diameter and handle mount is the most important.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Fist of Fury

[josé adalton]

The first factor is the variability of the thickness of the wire (error tolerance in the manufacturing process). In conjunction we have:

• alloy steel type
• coil diameter 
• spread of the wire

These are characteristics of the wire. And we have yet:

• the mounting depth
• the length of the handles 
• the thickness of the handles 

These factors change drastically the feel of the hand gripper. There are other factors that it is not possible to measure (RGC) but you can perceive some differences like:

• the sweep
• the knurling (or no-knurling) of the handles
• the direction of the spring ("left-turn" or anticlockwise)

I'm not sure if the "dog leg" can make a minimal difference in the RGC @Cannon could answer it, but a psychological fixture could be ok. 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by josé adalton
edit

[josé adalton]

13 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

TSG

Sorry, what's TSG?

[DoctorOfCrush]

Torsion spring gripper

[AdriaanRobert96]

41 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

It can be an indicator that the gripper is in the higher range but it's not a deciding factor, there are grippers in the lower range with wide spread as well. However a gripper with a wider spread will always be harder than a gripper with more narrow spread when the RGC is the same. So the spread is a very important factor but it does not always affect the RGC to any significant extent. The gripper you have is a very unusual #3 and the wide spread of it can actually be the reason it feels that hard, it might not even rate above 160. But because of the really wide spread it feels harder.

This is also the reason I think TSG's are not to be used in competition, it's more than just a rating number that matters. Much better to use adjustable, everyone uses the exact same gripper.

Spring diameter and handle mount is the most important.

I see, well nontheless it’s what I’ve read and heard so that’s why I thought I’d make this post and learn from you fine people

[Cannon]

3 hours ago, josé adalton said:

I'm not sure if the "dog leg" can make a minimal difference in the RGC @Cannon could answer it, but a psychological fixture could be ok.

Yeah, the dogleg is not a thing. Doesn’t matter at all. 

[Cannon]

7 hours ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Took a look at my super heavy #3 with an RGC of 160-165, and the width was exactly 80mm/ 3.15 inches..

That’s a pretty average #3 spread. I think you’ve mentioned before your #3 is not actually rated. 160+ is exceptionally rare. Like white whale rare. I think you might be wrong about the rating if you’re just guessing. Remind me what you’re basing the number on?

[Cannon]

3 hours ago, josé adalton said:

The first factor is the variability of the thickness of the wire (error tolerance in the manufacturing process). In conjunction we have:

• alloy steel type
• coil diameter 
• spread of the wire

These are characteristics of the wire. And we have yet:

• the mounting depth
• the length of the handles 
• the thickness of the handles 

These factors change drastically the feel of the hand gripper. There are other factors that it is not possible to measure (RGC) but you can perceive some differences like:

• the sweep
• the knurling (or no-knurling) of the handles
• the direction of the spring ("left-turn" or anticlockwise)

I'm not sure if the "dog leg" can make a minimal difference in the RGC @Cannon could answer it, but a psychological fixture could be ok. 

 

This is a good post. 

When grippers are made in a uniform way, like same handles and assembly etc, the wire size will initially divide them into strength levels. 

Within those levels, the spring preload (the angle which ultimately determines the spread) is the main factor for resulting strength. By far. 

[Justin Baumann]

I feel like grippers that have a wider spread at the end are usually harder because they are less broken in but I don't think most of them have a big enough variance to tell really.

[Cannon]

3 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

So the spread is a very important factor but it does not always affect the RGC to any significant extent.

I disagree and would say the opposite. The spread will always have a significant effect.

Easy examples of a gripper are narrow almost without exception. Hard examples are wide almost without exception. 

I’m not saying there couldn’t be exceptions, but for example if you found a wide HG300 that was “easy” then it would have to have a comically shallow mount or something. There would be some explanation that presented as a borderline defect  

After spring size, spread is king. Mount is kind of like a dumpy fiefdom lord. 

[Cannon]

4 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

Spring diameter and handle mount is the most important.

One example of why my experience has led me to believe wire size and spread are most important are the wide Iron springs. We could not salvage them by changing the mount. It was insurmountable (that’s an excellent pun). With the default Fe mount the widest springs approached 170. With a goofy shallow mount we got some of the narrowest springs into the 140s. So you can make big swings with mount, yes, but most grippers within their own line have a “decided” mount. So it doesn’t end up being the thing that matters, spread does. In other words, despite the potential for mount to affect the rating, the ways in which production grippers actually vary make spread variances matter more. 

[slazbob]

If it makes any difference, I have an rgc 152 and rgc 160 and they both are the same spread. Both no.3’s both rated by Matt. They feel very similar at the close, but the 152 has a tiny bit more give in the sweep. 

[Fist of Fury]

8 hours ago, josé adalton said:

Sorry, what's TSG?

Torsion spring gripper. But I should have just said that I think adjustable grippers should be used. A TSG can also be adjustable.

[Fist of Fury]

5 hours ago, Cannon said:

I disagree and would say the opposite. The spread will always have a significant effect.

Easy examples of a gripper are narrow almost without exception. Hard examples are wide almost without exception. 

I’m not saying there couldn’t be exceptions, but for example if you found a wide HG300 that was “easy” then it would have to have a comically shallow mount or something. There would be some explanation that presented as a borderline defect  

After spring size, spread is king. Mount is kind of like a dumpy fiefdom lord. 

I've had two different #3's with the same spread (77) mm, one was 158 and the other 146, so no it will not always affect the RGC result. 

I've also had #2 on the harder side with very narrow spread. So I have experience in this. Go ahead and disagree but I know this from experience.

Also I didn't say it doesn't affect the RGC I said it doesn't always do that.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Fist of Fury

[Fist of Fury]

5 hours ago, Cannon said:

One example of why my experience has led me to believe wire size and spread are most important are the wide Iron springs. We could not salvage them by changing the mount. It was insurmountable (that’s an excellent pun). With the default Fe mount the widest springs approached 170. With a goofy shallow mount we got some of the narrowest springs into the 140s. So you can make big swings with mount, yes, but most grippers within their own line have a “decided” mount. So it doesn’t end up being the thing that matters, spread does. In other words, despite the potential for mount to affect the rating, the ways in which production grippers actually vary make spread variances matter more. 

Handle mount is another thing that also affects the feel. Having handle mounted further down the spring will make the gripper feel easier than if you mount it further up on another spring that gives both grippers the same RGC. The gripper with with handles further down the spring legs will feel easier. At least to me.

I don't know about what type of tolerances the big manufacturers have when they mount the handles so I can't say anything about that. I'm just saying, strictly out of a technical standpoint that the handle mounts is more important.

[Scottex92]

17 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

I've had two different #3's with the same spread (77) mm, one was 158 and the other 146, so no it will not always affect the RGC result. 

I've also had #2 on the harder side with very narrow spread. So I have experience in this. Go ahead and disagree but I know this from experience.

Also I didn't say it doesn't affect the RGC I said it doesn't always do that.

are both #3 handles mounted at the same distance? that might be a factor that is making one harder than the other like @josé adalton said

Edited May 19, 2023 by Scottex92

[AdriaanRobert96]

8 hours ago, Cannon said:

That’s a pretty average #3 spread. I think you’ve mentioned before your #3 is not actually rated. 160+ is exceptionally rare. Like white whale rare. I think you might be wrong about the rating if you’re just guessing. Remind me what you’re basing the number on?

I talked about it before and the person that sent it to me said it was one of the hardest #3..

(I might be wrong about the rating).. but

I’ve been working with an average #3 for a while now and I can do 7 wide reps on a good day, but with this heavy #3 I can barely get 2 reps so it’s just based on what an average #3 is compared to my heavy #3 so of course I can be wrong but I’ll have it rated and see for sure

Oh also I was shocked by the spring with of 80mm since none of my other grippers are that wide, they all stand between 70-76mms

Edited May 19, 2023 by AdriaanRobert96

[Fist of Fury]

3 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

I talked about it before and the person that sent it to me said it was one of the hardest #3..

(I might be wrong about the rating).. but

I’ve been working with an average #3 for a while now and I can do 7 wide reps on a good day, but with this heavy #3 I can barely get 2 reps so it’s just based on what an average #3 is compared to my heavy #3 so of course I can be wrong but I’ll have it rated and see for sure

Oh also I was shocked by the spring with of 80mm since none of my other grippers are that wide, they all stand between 70-76mms

Don't know what he's talking about to be honest. 80 mm spread is not average at all. That's why you don't have any other gripper that wide.

[AdriaanRobert96]

6 hours ago, slazbob said:

If it makes any difference, I have an rgc 152 and rgc 160 and they both are the same spread. Both no.3’s both rated by Matt. They feel very similar at the close, but the 152 has a tiny bit more give in the sweep. 

Hmm I see, well I don’t really know what’s up with my #3 but it’s so much harder all the way from start to finish.

Being able to do wide reps on my average #3 and only 2 on the heavy #3 really shocked me

[AdriaanRobert96]

Just now, Fist of Fury said:

Don't know what he's talking about to be honest. 80 mm spread is not average at all. That's why you don't have any other gripper that wide.

That’a what I felt too, it’s visible to the eye compared to my other grippers

[AdriaanRobert96]

2 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

I've had two different #3's with the same spread (77) mm, one was 158 and the other 146, so no it will not always affect the RGC result. 

I've also had #2 on the harder side with very narrow spread. So I have experience in this. Go ahead and disagree but I know this from experience.

Also I didn't say it doesn't affect the RGC I said it doesn't always do that.

Also the #2.5 you sent me is mad toughI started using it recently and compared to my #2.5 yours a brick!

Can do wide reps with mine but only 7-8 with yours.

[Fist of Fury]

39 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Also the #2.5 you sent me is mad toughI started using it recently and compared to my #2.5 yours a brick!

Can do wide reps with mine but only 7-8 with yours.

I think the #2.5 I sent you is probably around 132 RGC if I would take a guess. So maybe slightly over average. I also noticed it was a bit harder than usual but I was very weak when I trained with it as well.

It's nowhere near the hardest #2.5 I've tried though. They have one at a gym in my town which is at least 140. That's a brick of a #2.5.