How would you train grip without any grip equipment?

[Gripperer]

11 minutes ago, C8Myotome said:

Pull ups are not nearly as good, first of all you have less weight to work with, you have less and smaller muscles being used, these muscles are going to become the limiting factor more than your grip will be, when the grip isn't even getting taxed that much to begin with. Your pullup set will be done due to fatigue of these muscles much before due to being limited your grip, therefore not training your grip that effectively

This is why I said deadlifts...you get to use just about every single muscle in your body, and you can keep loading plates. Grip absolutely will become the limiting factor in this, and tax/train is the most.

I wouldn't even put pullups 2nd on the list.

Depends what you're pulling up on. If you really have ZERO equipment then pull-ups from a variety of branches and ledges would provide ample stimulus. 

[C8Myotome]

Just now, Gripperer said:

Depends what you're pulling up on. If you really have ZERO equipment then pull-ups from a variety of branches and ledges would provide ample stimulus. 

I agree for zero equipment, which is why I asked to clarify what question he was actually asking...he meant if other gym equipment was allowed, but did not specify that at first. If other equipment is available, pull-ups are not the best option...if you're on a deserted island, pull-ups might be the best thing available

[AdriaanRobert96]

29 minutes ago, C8Myotome said:

Pull ups are not nearly as good, first of all you have less weight to work with, you have less and smaller muscles being used, these muscles are going to become the limiting factor more than your grip will be, when the grip isn't even getting taxed that much to begin with. Your pullup set will be done due to fatigue of these muscles much before due to being limited your grip, therefore not training your grip that effectively

This is why I said deadlifts...you get to use just about every single muscle in your body, and you can keep loading plates. Grip absolutely will become the limiting factor in this, and tax/train is the most.

I wouldn't even put pullups 2nd on the list.

Well said and I most certainly agree, pull ups was just one thing that came to mind for me.. especially weighted pull ups.

I totally get your point☝

[Gripperer]

9 minutes ago, C8Myotome said:

I agree for zero equipment, which is why I asked to clarify what question he was actually asking...he meant if other gym equipment was allowed, but did not specify that at first. If other equipment is available, pull-ups are not the best option...if you're on a deserted island, pull-ups might be the best thing available

Yep agreed. I drew my own "no man-made stuff" parameter to make it easier to think about.

[Climber028]

1 hour ago, C8Myotome said:

Pull ups are not nearly as good, first of all you have less weight to work with, you have less and smaller muscles being used, these muscles are going to become the limiting factor more than your grip will be, when the grip isn't even getting taxed that much to begin with. Your pullup set will be done due to fatigue of these muscles much before due to being limited your grip, therefore not training your grip that effectively

This is why I said deadlifts...you get to use just about every single muscle in your body, and you can keep loading plates. Grip absolutely will become the limiting factor in this, and tax/train is the most.

I wouldn't even put pullups 2nd on the list.

You're not using enough  imagination. You can add weight to pull ups, and you can do pull ups on objects other than an easy to grab bar. You can absolutely make pull ups purely a grip exercise, this is the foundation of the majority of training for climbing, making a pull up super hard. You don't even need fancy equipment, simply use blocks of wood or wrap a towel around a bar until it's extremely hard to hold. 

[C8Myotome]

16 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

You're not using enough  imagination. You can add weight to pull ups, and you can do pull ups on objects other than an easy to grab bar. You can absolutely make pull ups purely a grip exercise, this is the foundation of the majority of training for climbing, making a pull up super hard. You don't even need fancy equipment, simply use blocks of wood or wrap a towel around a bar until it's extremely hard to hold. 

That's true but only using the arms and lats is never going to provide as much strength and endurance as all of the muscles in the body together can, to increase the force and time spent using that to train grip. Yes I know about weight pull-ups, I still consider them inferior to deadlifts if the focus is grip training. I know you can use different implements to do a pull-up when you're now limited by how much upper back strength you can do to do pullups with, whereas with deadlifts you can stand there locked out and let grip be the limiting factor.

If you the argument was for a weighted dead hang where grip strength is the only limiting factor and back strength to do pullups was not considered, I'd consider that on the same level or close with deadlifts

[climber511]

1 hour ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Truth, not only strong base but further development of the body and grip

I personally went from training a 6 day split to 3 days per week and the other 3 days is walking for 80min and grip..

Been at it for a decent 14 years now☝

Keep it up - it's not the days you workout but the decades - stay the course.  64 years of lifting for me.

[Blacksmith513]

If I’m stranded on an island I could care less about grip tools. I wanna be like Gilligan and be stranded with the movie star and Mary-Ann

Edited April 18, 2023 by Blacksmith513

[EmilBB]

I would do dead hangs for sure, especially 1 handed.

[EmilBB]

44 minutes ago, C8Myotome said:

That's true but only using the arms and lats is never going to provide as much strength and endurance as all of the muscles in the body together can, to increase the force and time spent using that to train grip. Yes I know about weight pull-ups, I still consider them inferior to deadlifts if the focus is grip training. I know you can use different implements to do a pull-up when you're now limited by how much upper back strength you can do to do pullups with, whereas with deadlifts you can stand there locked out and let grip be the limiting factor.

If you the argument was for a weighted dead hang where grip strength is the only limiting factor and back strength to do pullups was not considered, I'd consider that on the same level or close with deadlifts

Definitely agree with this, I love my dead hangs. I do them more for a stretch / grip endurance though, so I hang longer than you would need to for building strength.

[Climber028]

1 hour ago, C8Myotome said:

That's true but only using the arms and lats is never going to provide as much strength and endurance as all of the muscles in the body together can, to increase the force and time spent using that to train grip. Yes I know about weight pull-ups, I still consider them inferior to deadlifts if the focus is grip training. I know you can use different implements to do a pull-up when you're now limited by how much upper back strength you can do to do pullups with, whereas with deadlifts you can stand there locked out and let grip be the limiting factor.

If you the argument was for a weighted dead hang where grip strength is the only limiting factor and back strength to do pullups was not considered, I'd consider that on the same level or close with deadlifts

There just isn't a difference if grip is the only goal, I can make a deadlift or a pull up where only the grip is a limiting factor and your back/arms/legs whatever are irrelevant. If you add in total body strength as a goal, then of course the deadlift is king but we're just talking grip in this hypothetical.

If anything for purely grip the pull up is better since your elbow goes through a full range while a deadlift can only develop grip in a straight arm position

[AdriaanRobert96]

3 hours ago, climber511 said:

Keep it up - it's not the days you workout but the decades - stay the course.  64 years of lifting for me.

Want to do this as long as I possibly can

[AdriaanRobert96]

3 hours ago, Blacksmith513 said:

If I’m stranded on an island I could care less about grip tools. I wanna be like Gilligan and be stranded with the movie star and Mary-Ann

Haha

[AdriaanRobert96]

3 hours ago, EmilBB said:

I would do dead hangs for sure, especially 1 handed.

That for sure willl be challenging, especially with weight.. I personally can’t hold any longer than 45 seconds 50 tops with one hand.. 

I weigh 220 atm

[EmilBB]

14 hours ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

That for sure willl be challenging, especially with weight.. I personally can’t hold any longer than 45 seconds 50 tops with one hand.. 

I weigh 220 atm

That's around the same time I can get right now at 125kg BW, aiming for that 1 minute.

[AdriaanRobert96]

5 hours ago, EmilBB said:

That's around the same time I can get right now at 125kg BW, aiming for that 1 minute.

Dang, that’s crazy strong!

What was your height?

[climber511]

I wouldn't call hangs that you can do for 45ish seconds a "strength" workout so much as strength endurance.  When I do my "hang board" for climbing I do a target of 7 to 10 seconds but add weight to keep that time number.  Hanging is certainly a good exercise - I just believe when you can hang a longish period of time it is no longer pure strength work.

[AdriaanRobert96]

57 minutes ago, climber511 said:

I wouldn't call hangs that you can do for 45ish seconds a "strength" workout so much as strength endurance.  When I do my "hang board" for climbing I do a target of 7 to 10 seconds but add weight to keep that time number.  Hanging is certainly a good exercise - I just believe when you can hang a longish period of time it is no longer pure strength work.

You’re definitely right about that, just to specify.. 

I don’t do hangs on a regular basis, it was just a fun thing to try

I have myself a homemade hangboard with the depth of 2 finger joints from the tips.

On that I can barely hang for 10 seconds

[Climber028]

39 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

You’re definitely right about that, just to specify.. 

I don’t do hangs on a regular basis, it was just a fun thing to try

I have myself a homemade hangboard with the depth of 2 finger joints from the tips.

On that I can barely hang for 10 seconds

That's the perfect difficulty, once you get past 10 to 12 seconds you can start adding weight. You can do only this and it will increase your hold time on a normal bar, no need to do super long boring endurance training and it is less effective anyways

[EmilBB]

4 hours ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Dang, that’s crazy strong!

What was your height?

191cm, 99% bodyfat.

[EmilBB]

4 hours ago, climber511 said:

I wouldn't call hangs that you can do for 45ish seconds a "strength" workout so much as strength endurance.  When I do my "hang board" for climbing I do a target of 7 to 10 seconds but add weight to keep that time number.  Hanging is certainly a good exercise - I just believe when you can hang a longish period of time it is no longer pure strength work.

Totally agree, that's what I said in my earlier comment as well. 

[AdriaanRobert96]

3 hours ago, Climber028 said:

That's the perfect difficulty, once you get past 10 to 12 seconds you can start adding weight. You can do only this and it will increase your hold time on a normal bar, no need to do super long boring endurance training and it is less effective anyways

Yup yupTrue, long holds are boring

[AdriaanRobert96]

1 hour ago, EmilBB said:

191cm, 99% bodyfat.

JeezMy man’s made out of jelly

[Blacksmith513]

38 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Yup yupTrue, long holds are boring

They still have their role in a training routine though. But if you are training for strength, if you can get few sets of 10 seconds its time to move on. 7 or 6 and under and you are working too hard.

 

Been doing that with my RGT and it can be crazy what just .25 makes some days.

[AdriaanRobert96]

11 hours ago, Blacksmith513 said:

They still have their role in a training routine though. But if you are training for strength, if you can get few sets of 10 seconds its time to move on. 7 or 6 and under and you are working too hard.

 

Been doing that with my RGT and it can be crazy what just .25 makes some days.

It’s all a balance, like with everything