Ego lifting in grip

[Londonjoseph]

Sorry this is my first topic I have posted, not sure if it's in the right place, Idk where else would be better. Just want to see a collection of ego-lifting through grip lol.

 

I found this guy the other day, and every video he posts does not include 1 real close. I tried talking to him about training MMS and CC closes, but he said "real men TNS" and he refused to believe negatives can hurt you

 

 

[Londonjoseph]

Also, quite frankly I don't think this guy ever squatted close to 650

[Vinnie]

As far as videos of closes, I have no problem with people being proud of how near they are to closing a goal gripper, and showing videos of attempts that are not full closes, if all they are doing is sharing progress and not trying to defraud anyone (he's not claiming to have closed the gripper all the way, so it's not dishonest).  So he can move a relatively hard COC 3.5 to almost parallel.  If he feels this is progress since last time he tried that, and it feels good to share, then good for him. 

As for how impressive it is to move a 3.5 from fully open to parallel, some people can't do that, but others can do far more.  It's not really noteworthy other than as a personal benchmark.  It's like if someone posted a bench press video of just barely moving 300 pounds off the bar and just barely locking it out, but never lowering it to the chest to try the press.  Some people wouldn't be able to budge it off the bar at all, and others can rep it easily from the chest.  So you'd post that if it's a personal milestone that makes you feel good about your own progress, not because it is remarkable in itself.  And it doesn't mean you're ever going to bench press that much (or that you won't).

I will add though that, based on the arrogance of his comments (without even knowing anything about his ability), I wouldn't bother engaging with him.  Who needs that.  I mean, maybe he's otherwise ok and was just a little defensive that your comment seemed critical of his workouts, and wanted to beat you down a little for saying what you did.  But still, I'd have just said thanks for the advice and ignored it if I disagreed.  

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Vinnie

[Climber028]

Why does any of this matter? As long as he isn't cheating on a cert or a competition people can train anyway they like. 

[Vinnie]

3 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

Why does any of this matter? As long as he isn't cheating on a cert or a competition people can train anyway they like. 

That’s a more succinct way of saying what I said, I think.  Lol

[Londonjoseph]

41 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

As far as videos of closes, I have no problem with people being proud of how near they are to closing a goal gripper, and showing videos of attempts that are not full closes, if all they are doing is sharing progress and not trying to defraud anyone (he's not claiming to have closed the gripper all the way, so it's not dishonest).  So he can move a relatively hard COC 3.5 to almost parallel.  If he feels this is progress since last time he tried that, and it feels good to share, then good for him. 

As for how impressive it is to move a 3.5 from fully open to parallel, some people can't do that, but others can do far more.  It's not really noteworthy other than as a personal benchmark.  It's like if someone posted a bench press video of just barely moving 300 pounds off the bar and just barely locking it out, but never lowering it to the chest to try the press.  Some people wouldn't be able to budge it off the bar at all, and others can rep it easily from the chest.  So you'd post that if it's a personal milestone that makes you feel good about your own progress, not because it is remarkable in itself.  And it doesn't mean you're ever going to bench press that much (or that you won't).

I will add though that, based on the arrogance of his comments (without even knowing anything about his ability), I wouldn't bother engaging with him.  Who needs that.  I mean, maybe he's otherwise ok and was just a little defensive that your comment seemed critical of his workouts, and wanted to beat you down a little for saying what you did.  But still, I'd have just said thanks for the advice and ignored it if I disagreed.  

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you Vinnie. Anyone can train in any fashion they like, regardless of how dumb or dangerous it is. He's not a guy bashing on other people, but his refusal to accept constructive criticism is what irks me. I told him he never actually TNS'd a 2.5, which is true. 

 

 

While there is no close here, it wasn't unimpressive or anything. In fact, I think that's not bad at all. I will say though, I think he is heading down a road of injury with how he is training. 

[Vinnie]

Well, he does not have to accept your criticism.  I think his arrogance is annoying, but it appears you are also annoying him.  I'd probably just stop following him.  There are people much more worth following for their knowledge and impressive feats.  You probably should both watch those folks instead of arguing with each other.

[Londonjoseph]

5 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

Well, he does not have to accept your criticism.  I think his arrogance is annoying, but it appears you are also annoying him.  I'd probably just stop following him.  There are people much more worth following for their knowledge and impressive feats.  You probably should both watch those folks instead of arguing with each other.

You are correct Vinnie. I am wasting my time with this. I'll put it towards better things

[Climber028]

People have a right to injure themselves, if someone actually doesn't know or you're concerned it might be nice to mention something once but after that just move on because it's on them to behave in any way they see fit, and either get injured or not by their own accord. 

[Vinnie]

20 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

People have a right to injure themselves, if someone actually doesn't know or you're concerned it might be nice to mention something once but after that just move on because it's on them to behave in any way they see fit, and either get injured or not by their own accord. 

Yes, that too.  The first time it's thoughtful, after that it's intrusive.  Hopefully you are both following some more established folks for educational purposes.

[Bigfoot Grip]

@Londonjoseph

Hey man you're not alone in your curiosity about ego lifting in grip. I don't see it on the grip board(except for the ego maniac medial thigh a-hole who thank god left) much but I have stumbled across this person's channel in the past. Anybody who says "why does it matter?!?" I don't find these people to be down to earth people. My own grip journey has involved $1,000's of dollars spent, an injury(wrist wrench) that had me doing my physio literally in the same building as a safe inject site absolutely plagued with crime in the genral area, tons of trail and error, networking with better gripsters etc. all this to be able to reach a meh level lol. So when someone starts claiming absurdities it makes total sense why it could rub a person the wrong way if that person has given so much dedication to improve in their sport. My issue is less so them being close minded know-it-alls, actually that's great news for us because they will likely progress slower than us and be more vulnerable to injury. It is with the 100% false claims of..."I closed XYZ gripper" yet every video shows a poverty ROM. Don't tell me your best RT numbers and neglect that it was dragged up your thigh or lifted like a mm off the ground  like c'mon dude be honest not only with yourself but with other gripsters. That is what makes grip comps & certs so awesome. Not just the comradery but you actually have to prove you did it! No smoke & mirrors. 

Lastly not to make excuses for these people but I have noticed what could be severe mental health issues. Tbh they remind me of the stolen valour or fake police videos I have scene. It's easy for us to be upset by these people for obvious reasons but we have to remind ourselves we don't know what's going on upstairs. i.e. a full deck of cards may not be what they're working with. And that's ok because we all have our problems and I know I'm not working with a full deck either lol. So maybe it's best to let them learn the hard way, but I absolutely will hear out anybody who needs to vent about these peoples lies and false claims. You're only human and you're curiousity and frustrations are imo absolutely valid. 

[Climber028]

I really don't see how it is a valuable use of time to cause yourself stress by being angry at strangers who have nothing to do with your life or your training.

Its very easy to find intelligent people to discuss training with, there's no need to spend any effort into convincing fools that they aren't training the "right" way which doesn't even exist. 

I'm not saying ego lifting isn't a problem, it's just not my problem so why stress about it. 

[Vinnie]

5 minutes ago, Bigfoot Grip said:

@Londonjoseph

Hey man you're not alone in your curiosity about ego lifting in grip. I don't see it on the grip board(except for the ego maniac medial thigh a-hole who thank god left) much but I have stumbled across this person's channel in the past. Anybody who says "why does it matter?!?" I don't find these people to be down to earth people. My own grip journey has involved $1,000's of dollars spent, an injury(wrist wrench) that had me doing my physio literally in the same building as a safe inject site absolutely plagued with crime in the genral area, tons of trail and error, networking with better gripsters etc. all this to be able to reach a meh level lol. So when someone starts claiming absurdities it makes total sense why it could rub a person the wrong way if that person has given so much dedication to improve in their sport. My issue is less so them being close minded know-it-alls, actually that's great news for us because they will likely progress slower than us and be more vulnerable to injury. It is with the 100% false claims of..."I closed XYZ gripper" yet every video shows a poverty ROM. Don't tell me your best RT numbers and neglect that it was dragged up your thigh or lifted like a mm off the ground  like c'mon dude be honest not only with yourself but with other gripsters. That is what makes grip comps & certs so awesome. Not just the comradery but you actually have to prove you did it! No smoke & mirrors. 

Lastly not to make excuses for these people but I have noticed what could be severe mental health issues. Tbh they remind me of the stolen valour or fake police videos I have scene. It's easy for us to be upset by these people for obvious reasons but we have to remind ourselves we don't know what's going on upstairs. i.e. a full deck of cards may not be what they're working with. And that's ok because we all have our problems and I know I'm not working with a full deck either lol. So maybe it's best to let them learn the hard way, but I absolutely will hear out anybody who needs to vent about these peoples lies and false claims. You're only human and you're curiousity and frustrations are imo absolutely valid. 

I'm not sure it bothers me much that people make fake or inflated claims as long as they aren't getting certified or beating me in a competition with their fraud.  And I think most of those fraud-prone types get outed anyway, because they don't know enough about the sport (or are not smart enough) to do the fraud convincingly -- like the guy a while ago who kept posting vids of himself supposedly closing COC 4 like a trainer.  Everyone knew it was fake and there was nothing at stake but the guy's credibility, which he tossed away by publishing his fake vids.  And here it's not even fraud, but just ignorance - the guy he's showing us reports that he is TNS closing these grippers, but the guy posts a video to document his claim showing him closing it only to about parallel.  In other words, he's not trying to tell you he touched the handles.  He just doesn't know that he didn't actually "close" the gripper.

I think the reason people can't help but engage is the same as this meme I will try to find and post, where a woman calls to her husband, "Honey, come to bed!" and he calls upstairs to her, "I CAN'T!  Someone said something WRONG on the INTERNET!"

[Vinnie]

8 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

I'm not sure it bothers me much that people make fake or inflated claims as long as they aren't getting certified or beating me in a competition with their fraud.  And I think most of those fraud-prone types get outed anyway, because they don't know enough about the sport (or are not smart enough) to do the fraud convincingly -- like the guy a while ago who kept posting vids of himself supposedly closing COC 4 like a trainer.  Everyone knew it was fake and there was nothing at stake but the guy's credibility, which he tossed away by publishing his fake vids.  And here it's not even fraud, but just ignorance - the guy he's showing us reports that he is TNS closing these grippers, but the guy posts a video to document his claim showing him closing it only to about parallel.  In other words, he's not trying to tell you he touched the handles.  He just doesn't know that he didn't actually "close" the gripper.

I think the reason people can't help but engage is the same as this meme I will try to find and post, where a woman calls to her husband, "Honey, come to bed!" and he calls upstairs to her, "I CAN'T!  Someone said something WRONG on the INTERNET!"

 

[Londonjoseph]

I'm definitely gonna put my energy elsewhere

[Bigfoot Grip]

@Climber028@Vinnie

I hear what you guys are saying 100%. My take is many of us here are grip nerds so it serves to reason why someone would be curious about frauds in the community. I find no shortage of monster posts from many on here so the come to bed analogy can be applied almost anywhere. Actually grip is my main "me time" these days because I have a family and career. It always seemed like a funny field to be fraudulent to me. The stolen valour crowd I can see the motive a little better. Who wouldn't want to be called a "war hero"? Funny if the topic is about Kinney folks are willing to chime in at great lengths though. On a side note many of these youtubers have nothing on Kinney imo in the fraud department. Perhaps they should claim "I CCS my GHP 10!"

[Climber028]

I've been involved in dozens and dozens of communities, various sports, hobbies, and games all sorts of silly things and I've never seen any that are free from liars and cheaters. It is a human universal that people will lie about anything and everything. Identify these people quickly, and then ignore them completely and go on with your life. It only becomes a problem if they try to compete, then just hope for good judging. 

[DAVE101]

I'll concede. There's some part of human nature that wants to right the wrongs, fix injustices, and give "no-reps" for bad lifts. However, like the others I've learned to become more selfish and not give a hoot about what others are doing. Plenty of people tell me about how they squatted 500+ lbs in high school. I let them have it.

[Terry Conjugate Iron]

He comments on my videos frequently and at times I'll do the same. I see what you mean but don't really care about how he does things honestly. 

I do understand how you'd want to give him a heads up regarding his approach, but after 1 shot I'd just walk away. 

It was his choice in the first place, you made an attempt and it backfired. All good, farewell lol

[Terry Conjugate Iron]

1 hour ago, DAVE101 said:

I'll concede. There's some part of human nature that wants to right the wrongs, fix injustices, and give "no-reps" for bad lifts. However, like the others I've learned to become more selfish and not give a hoot about what others are doing. Plenty of people tell me about how they squatted 500+ lbs in high school. I let them have it.

Especially when you lift weights!! Man do they insist! Haha relentless 

[Terry Conjugate Iron]

11 hours ago, Bigfoot Grip said:

@Climber028@Vinnie

I hear what you guys are saying 100%. My take is many of us here are grip nerds so it serves to reason why someone would be curious about frauds in the community. I find no shortage of monster posts from many on here so the come to bed analogy can be applied almost anywhere. Actually grip is my main "me time" these days because I have a family and career. It always seemed like a funny field to be fraudulent to me. The stolen valour crowd I can see the motive a little better. Who wouldn't want to be called a "war hero"? Funny if the topic is about Kinney folks are willing to chime in at great lengths though. On a side note many of these youtubers have nothing on Kinney imo in the fraud department. Perhaps they should claim "I CCS my GHP 10!"

Don't wanna trail off from the convo, but I'm also a bit confused about Kinney. I've read articles, seen Jedd's video about him. Don't really get why they'd criticise him so much. I'm fairly new to grip history though. So any solid input would be greatly appreciated 

[Terry Conjugate Iron]

6 hours ago, Terry Conjugate Iron said:

 

       @Fist of Fury

Edited February 1, 2022 by Terry Conjugate Iron

[Cannon]

5 hours ago, Terry Conjugate Iron said:

Don't wanna trail off from the convo, but I'm also a bit confused about Kinney. I've read articles, seen Jedd's video about him. Don't really get why they'd criticise him so much. I'm fairly new to grip history though. So any solid input would be greatly appreciated 

I’ll take a shot at the finer points of this:

* He is certified by IronMind so that’s that. It’s their list and he passed according to the rules at the time. 
* He clearly had a high level of grip strength and documented numerous elite feats. This was in the time before cell phones. 
* He made a video called “Get a Grip” where he described his training in his own words. He proved to be innovative and thoughtful in his approach to get a stronger grip. I feel this video is often misquoted. For example, his volume is often cited without the clarification that he himself said it was “split each side”. 10 negatives each hand is very different than 20 negatives. There is no mention of the secret weapon and he says of the truck rim grip machine “this is where the real work is done.”
* Later, his training was featured in the CoC book which feels both like more content was needed and editors got involved. Suddenly there is talk of tonnage and high rep squats, all absent when he summarized his own training. Still, his name is on the article. 
* The squats are often misquoted. It was homemade concrete weights with a safety bar which freed the hands to assist the lift with handle bars mounted, I believe, on trees. As he did chores around his property, he would stop and bang out some reps and go back to work. The entire day’s volume is often referenced as if it were one set or something. 
* He eventually registered at the IronMind forum and became more accessible. However more controversy seemed to spring from his efforts to answer questions. Replies felt defensive. He even seemed to take up cussing despite the “NO CUSSIN” sign visible in his original video. Still, all his replies are there to read and I suggest you take them in if you’re interested. 
* Get a Grip was redone by John Wood with additional interviews and content. There were new clarifications and now a “dumpster spring” monster gripper in play. Personally, I don’t doubt he experimented with this and the secret weapon, but I feel the role they played in his training is overstated. 

I would encourage you to take in the content yourself. Watch the original video “from the horse’s mouth”. Buy the CoC book and read it. Check out the postings over at IronMind. Form your own opinion. There are also endless threads here at the GripBoard which date back much further.  

I believe it has become a bit of a past time to get in the weeds about Kinney. The sensational and misquoted urban myth content has taken on a life of its own and is frequently quoted as facts where it began as commentary. I probably didn’t get the quotes I referenced exactly right. 

If you’re asking me, I feel he had clever training ideas, innovative equipment and superb grip strength. I personally incorporated takeaways from his original video into my own training. I found his grainy gripper video inspiring. For me there was value in his content that paid out regardless of criticism or doubt. I don’t need it all to be true to get stronger with his truck rim innovation. 

I feel there are things we don’t know. Maybe his gripper was light but unless it was defective it was likely 175+ based on known ingredients. Doing what he did even with a 175 is certain a superb grip. I ran a challenge recently to close a gripper “like Kinney”. I was hoping someone like Holle would make a submission. If Nathan at his level can’t close a 175 gripper “like Kinney” with the grind and all… that for me would raise some questions. Otherwise, I don’t need Kinney’s gripper to be a 220 pound, mile-wide gorilla to get value from his ideas and innovations.

For me the controversy has always been noise.  If you want to focus on that alone, you’ll be busy and not with grip training.  

 

[Terry Conjugate Iron]

49 minutes ago, Cannon said:

I’ll take a shot at the finer points of this:

* He is certified by IronMind so that’s that. It’s their list and he passed according to the rules at the time. 
* He clearly had a high level of grip strength and documented numerous elite feats. This was in the time before cell phones. 
* He made a video called “Get a Grip” where he described his training in his own words. He proved to be innovative and thoughtful in his approach to get a stronger grip. I feel this video is often misquoted. For example, his volume is often cited without the clarification that he himself said it was “split each side”. 10 negatives each hand is very different than 20 negatives. There is no mention of the secret weapon and he says of the truck rim grip machine “this is where the real work is done.”
* Later, his training was featured in the CoC book which feels both like more content was needed and editors got involved. Suddenly there is talk of tonnage and high rep squats, all absent when he summarized his own training. Still, his name is on the article. 
* The squats are often misquoted. It was homemade concrete weights with a safety bar which freed the hands to assist the lift with handle bars mounted, I believe, on trees. As he did chores around his property, he would stop and bang out some reps and go back to work. The entire day’s volume is often referenced as if it were one set or something. 
* He eventually registered at the IronMind forum and became more accessible. However more controversy seemed to spring from his efforts to answer questions. Replies felt defensive. He even seemed to take up cussing despite the “NO CUSSIN” sign visible in his original video. Still, all his replies are there to read and I suggest you take them in if you’re interested. 
* Get a Grip was redone by John Wood with additional interviews and content. There were new clarifications and now a “dumpster spring” monster gripper in play. Personally, I don’t doubt he experimented with this and the secret weapon, but I feel the role they played in his training is overstated. 

I would encourage you to take in the content yourself. Watch the original video “from the horse’s mouth”. Buy the CoC book and read it. Check out the postings over at IronMind. Form your own opinion. There are also endless threads here at the GripBoard which date back much further.  

I believe it has become a bit of a past time to get in the weeds about Kinney. The sensational and misquoted urban myth content has taken on a life of its own and is frequently quoted as facts where it began as commentary. I probably didn’t get the quotes I referenced exactly right. 

If you’re asking me, I feel he had clever training ideas, innovative equipment and superb grip strength. I personally incorporated takeaways from his original video into my own training. I found his grainy gripper video inspiring. For me there was value in his content that paid out regardless of criticism or doubt. I don’t need it all to be true to get stronger with his truck rim innovation. 

I feel there are things we don’t know. Maybe his gripper was light but unless it was defective it was likely 175+ based on known ingredients. Doing what he did even with a 175 is certain a superb grip. I ran a challenge recently to close a gripper “like Kinney”. I was hoping someone like Holle would make a submission. If Nathan at his level can’t close a 175 gripper “like Kinney” with the grind and all… that for me would raise some questions. Otherwise, I don’t need Kinney’s gripper to be a 220 pound, mile-wide gorilla to get value from his ideas and innovations.

For me the controversy has always been noise.  If you want to focus on that alone, you’ll be busy and not with grip training.  

 

Wow thanks for the super detailed comment! I have read opinions on here on and off and they're like before, divided. I will look up the stuff you suggested. 

I love reading and learning about strength so this is gonna be dope. 

Thanks @Cannon

[Londonjoseph]

2 hours ago, Cannon said:

I’ll take a shot at the finer points of this:

* He is certified by IronMind so that’s that. It’s their list and he passed according to the rules at the time. 
* He clearly had a high level of grip strength and documented numerous elite feats. This was in the time before cell phones. 
* He made a video called “Get a Grip” where he described his training in his own words. He proved to be innovative and thoughtful in his approach to get a stronger grip. I feel this video is often misquoted. For example, his volume is often cited without the clarification that he himself said it was “split each side”. 10 negatives each hand is very different than 20 negatives. There is no mention of the secret weapon and he says of the truck rim grip machine “this is where the real work is done.”
* Later, his training was featured in the CoC book which feels both like more content was needed and editors got involved. Suddenly there is talk of tonnage and high rep squats, all absent when he summarized his own training. Still, his name is on the article. 
* The squats are often misquoted. It was homemade concrete weights with a safety bar which freed the hands to assist the lift with handle bars mounted, I believe, on trees. As he did chores around his property, he would stop and bang out some reps and go back to work. The entire day’s volume is often referenced as if it were one set or something. 
* He eventually registered at the IronMind forum and became more accessible. However more controversy seemed to spring from his efforts to answer questions. Replies felt defensive. He even seemed to take up cussing despite the “NO CUSSIN” sign visible in his original video. Still, all his replies are there to read and I suggest you take them in if you’re interested. 
* Get a Grip was redone by John Wood with additional interviews and content. There were new clarifications and now a “dumpster spring” monster gripper in play. Personally, I don’t doubt he experimented with this and the secret weapon, but I feel the role they played in his training is overstated. 

I would encourage you to take in the content yourself. Watch the original video “from the horse’s mouth”. Buy the CoC book and read it. Check out the postings over at IronMind. Form your own opinion. There are also endless threads here at the GripBoard which date back much further.  

I believe it has become a bit of a past time to get in the weeds about Kinney. The sensational and misquoted urban myth content has taken on a life of its own and is frequently quoted as facts where it began as commentary. I probably didn’t get the quotes I referenced exactly right. 

If you’re asking me, I feel he had clever training ideas, innovative equipment and superb grip strength. I personally incorporated takeaways from his original video into my own training. I found his grainy gripper video inspiring. For me there was value in his content that paid out regardless of criticism or doubt. I don’t need it all to be true to get stronger with his truck rim innovation. 

I feel there are things we don’t know. Maybe his gripper was light but unless it was defective it was likely 175+ based on known ingredients. Doing what he did even with a 175 is certain a superb grip. I ran a challenge recently to close a gripper “like Kinney”. I was hoping someone like Holle would make a submission. If Nathan at his level can’t close a 175 gripper “like Kinney” with the grind and all… that for me would raise some questions. Otherwise, I don’t need Kinney’s gripper to be a 220 pound, mile-wide gorilla to get value from his ideas and innovations.

For me the controversy has always been noise.  If you want to focus on that alone, you’ll be busy and not with grip training.  

 

Very insightful I will have to take a look