Someone Explain Crossfit To Me.

[33wes]

It's not really cheating, because it does take skill and strength to perform those pull-ups, but they are definitely not a pull-up.

I often wonder what these people's joints are going to feel like a few years down the road. Hopefully not as bad as mine would seemingly feel if I tried them.

It would also be cool to see how many actual pull-ups she could do. Hopefully she puts up another video soon.

..No doubt she could probably do a bunch of strict pullups..Kudos to her for her strength and obvious conditioning level, but the connective tissue in her shoulders won't last long like that.

[AP]

I've always felt "looser" form to actually be easier on my joints, its more fluid and continuous. I wouldn't recommend a strong person just go straight into it like trying to do max weight or reps without practicing the timing and skill of the movement for a few weeks though. Haven't tried kipping, though I do like to use a little momentum with pullups. Sometimes what people think causes damage is more related to old wives tales, or poor strength training philosophies, than reality. Like the idea that squats will kill your knees.

Not saying people should be reckless with form just that smooth and continuous (like what she's doing in that vid) has always been easier on me than those sharp starts and stops that some advocate.

[lifesnotfair]

Something needs to be clear here:

CrossFit has evolved into a "sport" itself, a competition, much larger than Grip, for example. 2011's CF Games offered, if I remember correctly, around $250,000 to the 1st place winner, wether he is the Fittest Man Alive or not, the dude got some serious cash.

Now, lets put an end on the "kipping pull-ups will hurt your shoulder in the long run". Guess what, throwing pitches at 100mph+ routinely for years might hurt your shoulder too. Basketball courts with their friction will f*ck up your knees over time. ALL sports have injury risks, so you have to get over it.

Once you understand the CF methodology and their metcons, if you're not planning to compete at the CF Games, then we can ALL agree that it's absolutely the smartest thing to NOT program whatever moves we consider "risky" in the metcons we choose to do.

This is why I wanted you to understand WHY they kip. There are rules written and this is now a sport, or at least a Competition. The rules for the pull-ups (which they will keep calling PULL-UPS without putting the word kipping in front), require your arms to be extended at the bottom, and your chin above the bar from the horizontal view. That's it. Now, with that understood, you can clearly see WHY they kip. It's the most efficient way to do a large number of "That Movement" in the shortest time. Maybe we can call the movement "From hang to chin-over-bar AnyHow", but they call them pull-ups.

If there are $250,000 on the line and the MetCon you have to do is something like this (I'll just make one up):

3 rounds for time of all of this:

Run 800 meters

225# DL x15 reps

50 "PULL-UPS"

185# push-press x5 reps

Now.... if you find me a guy that wins this event and did all 150 "PULL-UPS" in strict fashion, then this man deserves millions and not just whatever the price is.

A good analogy, seeing the same workout, is this:

-The 800 meter run could be called "transport your bodyweight from this point to that other point which is 800m far". Now, you could arguably do Walking Lunges for 800m because "it hits the glutes and quads better". But what is the most efficient way to move your body 800m? To run it. Easy.

-You gotta see the pull-ups that way. At those competitions, the biggest lats won win the money, it's whoever finishes the workout faster. So, as the rules want you going from the Hang to the Top of the pull-up 150 times... are you NOT gonna use your hips to get there?

That said, again, I most definitely agree that if one is NOT planning on doing CF competitions, then we can all come up with "MetCons" or workouts suited for our own individual needs and goals, and avoiding moves that we feel can injure us. But we don't have to go around bad-mouthing them because of that. The guys who place at top at the CF Games are truly phenomenal human beings.

[lifesnotfair]

By the way I must point out I haven't done "Crossfit" in over 18 months and would not consider myself a "CrossFitter". I just wanted to try and share some insight I've acquired in the past 4 years.

It is indeed a business, and a CF Gym even opened close to my home, here in the Dominican Republic! The fee was $200 a month! In a country where $200 is the minimun wage.... pretty laughable, luckily I work out at home for the past 4 years. I have observed that these CF gyms all over the world charge a ton of money, and have their clients do "metcons" just so they feel they're "Doing Crossfit" but time goes by and these people remain weak many times, and here is where CF gets a bad rap and the "weak" jokes.

This has been the topic of much debate in their forums over the years. If a guy can't do the workouts as RX'd and has to drastically scale the weight on them all.... should he be doing so much metcon? Or should he do more dedicated strength work for a few months before getting more into CF? the dudes at the top have VERY nice strength numbers. And I can see why gym rats would make fun of "Crossfitters" if they've been hitting the gym 5x/week for 3 years and can't strict press 120#.

So in the forums, for weak people or novices, it's many times advised to do one of several options before actually "doing CF"...

-Either do a pure strength program for months...

-Or do some sort of "hybrid" program which includes a bit of both (strength and metcon).

For example, many guys, those more interested in Strength, follow CrossFit Football's WODs, which are more geared towards strength, while could still be called CrossFit I guess. Others have developed routines with good results, like "CrossFit Strength Bias".

Man this thread will give me carpal tunnel!

[AP]

The butterfly kip involves descending as you move closer to the bar, so there's a freefall period when there is little tension on the muscles surrounding the glenohumeral joint, and when you hit bottom, you feel a sudden snap as tension is reapplied. This is a much more dangerous version in terms of shoulder health. It also happens to be easier and faster, which is why a lot of CF'ers use it in competition.

Personally, I train to be stronger and fitter, so I don't want to put my shoulders at risk just to finish faster, and would use the standard kip if I had to choose.

If I understand correctly she is doing the butterfly kip in that vid. I would contend than the energy from the "free fall" doesn't 'snap' the shoulder joints rather it flows smoothly into the legs to generate momentum for the next rep. If there was a snap that would cause a jerk and waste energy, making this a slower and more difficult kipping version. Its easy because its fluid.

Now putting 1000s of reps through any movement can cause wear and tear, I just don't think this style of kip is any more dangerous and maybe in some cases easier on joints than "strict' pullups depending on how they are trained.

[33wes]

I've always felt "looser" form to actually be easier on my joints, its more fluid and continuous. I wouldn't recommend a strong person just go straight into it like trying to do max weight or reps without practicing the timing and skill of the movement for a few weeks though. Haven't tried kipping, though I do like to use a little momentum with pullups. Sometimes what people think causes damage is more related to old wives tales, or poor strength training philosophies, than reality. Like the idea that squats will kill your knees.

Not saying people should be reckless with form just that smooth and continuous (like what she's doing in that vid) has always been easier on me than those sharp starts and stops that some advocate.

....Smooth and continous until she hits the bottom position, which is where my concern would be.

[lifesnotfair]

I read once that gymnasts on the Rings, when coming down from something like the top of a ring handstand push-up (the whole body vertical above the rings) and they drop down and Swing under the rings, the stress on their shoulders is like 9x Bodyweight. I'm quoting from memory though, this could be wrong so don't take me for granted. Either way, I guess coming down from the top of the pull-up( while nothing but your head is over the bar) even if you free fall into the lower possition..... well, it's less stress than those gymnasts, right? LOL.

Either way, I fully believe you can "Do CrossFit" and don't do kipping PU's or some other moves if you choose not to. You just wont win the CF competitions but if don't plan to compete... sure, don't do them. You can still "do CF" and skip a bunch of the gazillion moves they do, I guess. It just depends how you define "Crossfitter". Is it someone who religiously follows the mainpage WODs? I guess that's a harsh definition. Is it someone who does 2-3 relatively short metcons a week (10-12 minutes long) to supplement their Strength Training?.... is it someone who exclusively trains out of a CF box and pays the ridiculous wages they charge?

Truth is you don't HAVE to do all their moves, or their workouts. But you also don't HAVE to say "do real chinúps" or "doing 100 butterflies wont get you to a 200# weighed chinup" because that's OBVIOUS and CF'ers KNOW this, for crying out loud. Why do you think they're doing 100 butterflies in order to achieve a big weighed strict pull-up? That assumption is rather.... funny. You think they don't know that they don't transfer well to a weighed Strict chin? You think those who can't bang 60+ kipping pu's can't bang a pretty decent ammount of strict chins? C'mon fellas, that's what I wanted you all to understand, WHY that move is used.

-They have a "Toes To Bar" as well, in which you must go from full hang with body straight at the bottom, to touching the bar with your toes. Surely you wont up to a CrossFit competition and make a fool of yourself saying "you're usingmomentum, you have to keep a steady torso and slowly raise your legs with Knees Locked to really strengthen your abs, because that is the purposeof these move, you know".... get my point? There are rules, and they play within them. Remember: building big lats is not the goal of those pull-ups.

But don't forget this...."Serious" CrossFitters (those aiming tocompete) do dedicated Strength Work as well, not just the metcons, and they are pretty STRONG too, the ones who compete. I can't speak for those doing whatever and calling themselves hardcore CFers.

[Scott Styles]

The ease with which the girl in the video hangs from one hand when getting off the pull up bar made me curious. It turns out she is a great example of "good athletes make Crossfit". Check out her bio:

http://www.crossfitbelltown.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=2&Itemid=4

Note the "started gymnstics at 5" and "national gymnastics competitor", among other things.

[Shoggoth]

Wild Gorillaman knows what crossfit is about.

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