What Do You Think?

[climber511]

Things we have seen or are starting to see in grip contests – what do you think of them?

Wider grippers – the new Vulcan is even wider than the old one – which was wider than most torsion Spring Grippers.

The use of blocks of various sizes to “set” with.

Heavy support lifts like the Plateau Buster

Frame holds – Hercules Holds etc for time (heavy endurance events)

“Odd” objects like the Grip Topz

[Cannon]

I have enjoyed wider grippers and also the use of blocks. Use of blocks especially. In a contest setting, it takes a subjective element out of grippers for the judge. It's much easier to quickly tell if they swiped the block correctly rather than make a judgment call if the set was acceptable.

I am against the heavy supporting lifts for selfish reasons. My back is not going to allow me to continue training these lifts. And it isn't safe for me to do them. That's my own problem, though. I also just don't like them very much for contests because I feel they are strength lifts first and only secondarily grip lifts. At Adam's Decathlon in November, I will either take zeros in a few lifts, or just lift something like 100# so I don't record a zero for events like axle or PB.

The WSH series was GREAT this year. I really liked the GripTopz lifts. I think the events made for a "true" grip contest that also had historical tie-ins. Very approachable lifts and world records being set around 40 pounds instead of 400 or 600. I think these are creative, true grip feats, and very cool.

This is part of what appealed to me about grip lifts in the first place. Take something like a 45# plate hub. Most people move 45# plates around the gym all day. No big deal. So how can a 45# plate possibly feel SOOO heavy by the hub? Because your grip is isolated in the lift. I don't get the same effect from a 400# axle lift. It just seems like the major issue there is can you lift 400# or not?

[AdamTGlass]

Things we have seen or are starting to see in grip contests – what do you think of them?

Wider grippers – the new Vulcan is even wider than the old one – which was wider than most torsion Spring Grippers.

The use of blocks of various sizes to “set” with.

Heavy support lifts like the Plateau Buster

Frame holds – Hercules Holds etc for time (heavy endurance events)

“Odd” objects like the Grip Topz

Wider grippers - Not a fan. Grippers are a primary challenge in grip, and learning to set a gripper is the critical piece. This hurts newbies more and more from entering the sport. Push/Pull meets are popular because everyone can understand pick this up and press that weight, will grip contests move away from grippers due to the challenge of setting?

Setting blocks- I am a huge fan. I know that sounds like a contradiction to what I just typed above- BUT for contests a 20 mm block makes the gripper attempt extremely easy to judge. In the past there have been problems with people setting too narrow, or obscuring the set from the judge. The block takes both problems away. And as demonstrated at Nationals- we will still see big gripper closes. I feel a block only takes away a small amount of power, maybe 4-8 lbs total.

Huge support lifts- being that I designed the PB and used it first in contest I am obviously biased. Lifts like Dinnie stone trainers, partial one hand lifts (v bars) and the like are still very safe lifts for most. the ROM is smaller and the starting position allows a lifter to have a strong mechanical position of spine and hips. They are all still ultimately tests of hand power. Certainly not appropriate for all, but probably safer then DO Axle events....

Frame holds and such- I am also a fan of. Many grip events are measuring grip in a burst of strength, but what about staying power? It is a different kind of strength

-- Things I am adding to my next contest

- light weight grippers for reps

- Hanging from ropes as an event

- pinch lift and hold with a relatively light weight

- Bottoms up KB pressing

- plate curls

- finger lifts

- swings with various weights and handles

-- The light weight grippers event to measure grip endurance in the crush, which is rarely tested, the ropes to give an event which favors lighter body sizes, and a pinch and hold on a very simple to train format. Few people have block weights to train for comp with- everyone has two 45's.

What matters most--- The contestants enjoy the contest!

I will do my best each contest to provide stimulating events to challenge and entertain the people who are showing up. Chris your call on Gripmas, and Bob's calls for MI grip inspired me on this end. The promoters job is make the event awesome for those involved.

I would like to continue to balance innovative contest formats, with the more traditional events to bring more and more people out, and keep the more serious grip athletes (a very small but growing local community in MN) engaged.

[Jedd Johnson]

My thoughts:

Wider grippers – I was happy with the spread on the first one. I wish it would have stayed the same. However, I did not notice much of a difference in difficulty when I tested the V2.

The use of blocks of various sizes to “set” with - I think this is a much better way to go. Makes it much easier to judge.

Heavy support lifts like the Plateau Buster - I like this. Support grip is when your fingers wrap around the handle. Inch Dumbbell-sized handles is not support, it is open hand. The weights being lifted are huge. Too much for my support grip and too much for my back, but that is my own fault.

Frame holds – Hercules Holds etc for time (heavy endurance events) - Sounds good to me.

“Odd” objects like the Grip Topz - I think the two ultra-narrow events contested in the same Leg is unnecessary. Also, i don't see any reason to go so narrow. It really is an entirely separate discipline. So, it is almost like contesting MM-set grippers and Choker grippers in the same competition. I think an even bigger problem with the Grip Topz is that there don't seem to be enough for those interested in training them to buy them.

I do however think the Hub is very cool. I think having it very shallow like it is and contested with the claw grip is the best way to go.

Interesting topic, as always, Climber.

[climber511]

• Wider Grippers. I guess I might as well go through my feelings on grippers. As most of you know I find these things incredibly boring and with (for me) very limited carry over to just about anything else in my life. Any and all “setting” starts to involve a level of skill that people outside the sport don’t comprehend and causes more arguments than every other subject in our sport. TNS is at least sort of a Natural thing but favors big hands so much as to be worthless for contests. CCS is also totally artificial – as are blocks of any kind – they do make things “fair” IF you start with the assumption that everyone has an equal ability to set – seldom the case (and yes I do understand that everyone has an equal chance to learn and practice this). Chokers are just as artificial as all other ideas – I think everyone knows I think they are the most fair test of crushing STRENGTH and not setting skill but still hardly a natural thing. If others didn’t pretty much mandate them in contests – I wouldn’t include them in my contest probably. And wider just makes the whole thing worse in my opinion.
  
• Heavy support lifts like the Plateau Buster. I have a personal problem and like Matt and Jedd I don’t feel it should affect the decisions by other promoters to have or not have this type of events. My loss of overall body strength due to age and my previous back injuries (none of which occurred doing these type things) do not mean they are not appropriate for others. I think some of these might possibly be made better or safer with high starts – which most already do. I do see some bicep injury and skin tear possibility with the 1” V Bar though – I would consider that one fairly high risk. All one hand lifts probably have a higher risk factor than lifts done with two hands and a more symmetrical loading – at least for most people.
  
• Frame holds – Hercules Holds – Scale Weights etc for time (heavy endurance events). I like the idea of tests for endurance, either for reps or time – pretty practical in the real world. By necessity these may have to be pretty heavy to keep time frames reasonable and some require a high starting position to make them a “grip” event and not body strength limited but everyone seems to have already grasped that and is planning accordingly.
  
• Grip Topz - I haven’t done WSH this year due to my climbing trips so my opinion on these doesn’t mean much. They look like fun and I would certainly have them in a Medley setting but I personally don’t see them as main event things. But that isn’t fair to say without having actually done them I suppose.
  

[AdamTGlass]

On the griptopz

I know next years models will be much more rounded. David has announced a Blob top, a "gold bar lift" which I have no idea what that is yet, a "handshake" which he described to me is very much like a thicker V bar, and an adjustable Thickbar set up. I believe next years events will be more in line with events which have been traditionally contested.

One of the ideas I will be field testing in 2012 is a 3 medley contest. 3 set ups of 20-30 items, each with a different time limit. All people run through set up#1, then #2 is set up and run through, then #3. Add up a composite score.

I feel that would both a fast contest and an exciting one not only to play in, but to observe.

[daniel reinard]

That gold bar lift must be to mimic the mine is South Africa that has a bar they say you can take home if you can pick it up with one hand on first try.

Grippers: not a fan of wide sets. This makes it way too hard on new people, and even for an intermediate level person, the set should not be a limiting factor. I'm not sure why the V2 is so wide and also wider than the V1. Having said that it is still a gre

at training tool.

Blocks: for them but a size should be standardized for the sake of Nats or Elite qualifications.

Heavy support lifts: mixed thoughts based on overall strength. It does limit some people. Not worried about skkin loss though, that can be had on many events.

Odd objects: LOVE the shallow hub for contests and training. Not sure why the coin and stub are together in a contest. They both are not very practical. If to choose one the coin would edge the stub. I really look forward to the blob and thickbar topz in a contest.

[Cannon]

One of the ideas I will be field testing in 2012 is a 3 medley contest. 3 set ups of 20-30 items, each with a different time limit. All people run through set up#1, then #2 is set up and run through, then #3. Add up a composite score.

I feel that would both a fast contest and an exciting one not only to play in, but to observe.

That is an incredible idea. You already put stuff like grippers in your medley. You could have the kitchen sink in there too.

[rico300zx]

One of the ideas I will be field testing in 2012 is a 3 medley contest. 3 set ups of 20-30 items, each with a different time limit. All people run through set up#1, then #2 is set up and run through, then #3. Add up a composite score.

I feel that would both a fast contest and an exciting one not only to play in, but to observe.

That is an incredible idea. You already put stuff like grippers in your medley. You could have the kitchen sink in there too.

yea just attach it to a IM hub and there you go.

I like these

DO thick bar for max weight or reps

2hp

Maybe a timed hold like on strongman with the pilars.

And medleys

[Mikael Siversson]

Wider grippers – Much prefer torsion grippers for training and contest (I think the WD is great though).

The use of blocks of various sizes to “set” with - Very good idea I think.

Heavy support lifts like the Plateau Buster - This will be seriously questioned when we get the first couple disc hernias.

Frame holds – Hercules Holds etc for time (heavy endurance events) - Bad idea as I am interested in max strength. For ultimate fore arm endurance you need to be a female. Try challenging a girl in manual cream whipping.

“Odd” objects like the Grip Topz - The reason I am not doing any WSH comps (next years selection sounds much better though).

Regarding medley's - Not interested as long as they are part of the main competition. Lots of people love them though. Needless to say they give a competing organiser a huge advantage.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Mikael Siversson

[Cannon]

I realized I made a typo. I have not enjoyed the wider grippers, despite liking the actual equipment. On the Vulcan, I'm limited by the set and nothing to do about crushing it down. That is backwards to me. But I think it's a great piece of equipment for training especially. I would much rather do TSGs in a contest.

[andurniat]

Wider grippers – I agree that setting skill has a lot to do with a big gripper finish. Chokers negates this the best. I train them only prior to comp.

The use of blocks of various sizes to “set” with - I think we're all in agreement in that it easier for the judge and makes it unquestionable.

Heavy support lifts like the Plateau Buster - I like this because I'm good at them.. But like all things, something is going to be a limiting factor and bodystrength is one of them for some. DO Axle garnered similar discussion after the record went from 454 to 501#, it mysteriously went from a stable grip event to 'it's a strength lift, not grip'.

Frame holds – Hercules Holds etc for time (heavy endurance events) - I questioned them at first but after experiencing them a couple of times (Michigan and FitExpo) I am a fan. I am choosing a frame hold for Nationals for the ease of set-up and we don't have to guess on weather if I planned for cars. As a promoter, we not only need to look after the lifters (safety, fairness, well-rounded) but now also making it visually appealing to spectators.

“Odd” objects like the Grip Topz - I haven't been a fan of the Grip Topz. There has been low enthusiasm towards them in both legs so far. Medley objects is where they will be after leg 3.

[bencrush]

On the griptopz

I know next years models will be much more rounded. David has announced a Blob top, a "gold bar lift" which I have no idea what that is yet, a "handshake" which he described to me is very much like a thicker V bar, and an adjustable Thickbar set up. I believe next years events will be more in line with events which have been traditionally contested.

One of the ideas I will be field testing in 2012 is a 3 medley contest. 3 set ups of 20-30 items, each with a different time limit. All people run through set up#1, then #2 is set up and run through, then #3. Add up a composite score.

I feel that would both a fast contest and an exciting one not only to play in, but to observe.

I like your multiple medley idea Adam! I was talking to Josh Dale early this year about having what I called the "Deadly Medley." It involved over 100 items with various points for different performances - even on the same item. Like 1 point for an MMS #2 close, 2 points for TNS. Or 1 point for loading a 40lb blob to an 8" platform and 2 points for loading it to a 12" platform. I went back and forth on the idea of just awarding 1 point per event and letting it go at that. And having over 50 calibrated grippers in the lineup - along with tons of vbar, block weights, and multiple thick bar events.

[climber511]

On the griptopz

I know next years models will be much more rounded. David has announced a Blob top, a "gold bar lift" which I have no idea what that is yet, a "handshake" which he described to me is very much like a thicker V bar, and an adjustable Thickbar set up. I believe next years events will be more in line with events which have been traditionally contested.

One of the ideas I will be field testing in 2012 is a 3 medley contest. 3 set ups of 20-30 items, each with a different time limit. All people run through set up#1, then #2 is set up and run through, then #3. Add up a composite score.

I feel that would both a fast contest and an exciting one not only to play in, but to observe.

I like your multiple medley idea Adam! I was talking to Josh Dale early this year about having what I called the "Deadly Medley." It involved over 100 items with various points for different performances - even on the same item. Like 1 point for an MMS #2 close, 2 points for TNS. Or 1 point for loading a 40lb blob to an 8" platform and 2 points for loading it to a 12" platform. I went back and forth on the idea of just awarding 1 point per event and letting it go at that. And having over 50 calibrated grippers in the lineup - along with tons of vbar, block weights, and multiple thick bar events.

I do love Medleys but scoring gets tough with multiple height loading platforms, different points for different items, and many many items to keep track of what with multiple attempts and all the back and forth between things you have done and things you keep trying and trying to do. Not an insurmountable problem of course but still an issue. And simply the need for a big big area of free space to lay everything out on also comes up what with many comps held in relatively small venues. But still a fun sounding idea.

[Hubgeezer]

This is more obscene than cursing on the forum and Chris Rice should be reprimanded

• Wider Grippers. I guess I might as well go through my feelings on grippers... If others didn’t pretty much mandate them in contests – I wouldn’t include them in my contest probably.
  
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[climber511]

This is more obscene than cursing on the forum and Chris Rice should be reprimanded

• Wider Grippers. I guess I might as well go through my feelings on grippers... If others didn’t pretty much mandate them in contests – I wouldn’t include them in my contest probably.
  
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Mike I said "probably" - you can guess how I really feel! Those little pieces of bent steel have been the cause of the most intense rifts in our sport - and I see no end in sight.

[Hubgeezer]

This is more obscene than cursing on the forum and Chris Rice should be reprimanded

• Wider Grippers. I guess I might as well go through my feelings on grippers... If others didn’t pretty much mandate them in contests – I wouldn’t include them in my contest probably.
  
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• 
  
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Mike I said "probably" - you can guess how I really feel! Those little pieces of bent steel have been the cause of the most intense rifts in our sport - and I see no end in sight.

Grippers. When the subject is "not grippers", there can be a very interesting subject on this and on other forums, or fantastic accomplishments by someone, complete with video. Hardly anyone cares, judging by the number of views. But "grippers"? Oh my goodness, hits galore, posts galore, discussions and obssessions galore. Regardless of what some folks may think, GRIPPERS are a key part of the sport. Grippers are where the vast majority start with the sport. You are correct, there is no end in sight.

[Mikael Siversson]

I am at about the same strength relative to others in grippers and 2HP (I actually beat DH in grippers in a comp.). Which one do I regard as most 'prestigious'? The 2HP of course, by a mile.

Grippers. When the subject is "not grippers", there can be a very interesting subject on this and on other forums, or fantastic accomplishments by someone, complete with video. Hardly anyone cares, judging by the number of views. But "grippers"? Oh my goodness, hits galore, posts galore, discussions and obssessions galore. Regardless of what some folks may think, GRIPPERS are a key part of the sport. Grippers are where the vast majority start with the sport. You are correct, there is no end in sight.

[climber511]

This is more obscene than cursing on the forum and Chris Rice should be reprimanded

• Wider Grippers. I guess I might as well go through my feelings on grippers... If others didn’t pretty much mandate them in contests – I wouldn’t include them in my contest probably.
  
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  

Mike I said "probably" - you can guess how I really feel! Those little pieces of bent steel have been the cause of the most intense rifts in our sport - and I see no end in sight.

Grippers. When the subject is "not grippers", there can be a very interesting subject on this and on other forums, or fantastic accomplishments by someone, complete with video. Hardly anyone cares, judging by the number of views. But "grippers"? Oh my goodness, hits galore, posts galore, discussions and obssessions galore. Regardless of what some folks may think, GRIPPERS are a key part of the sport. Grippers are where the vast majority start with the sport. You are correct, there is no end in sight.

Mike - my view is that everyone is out of step but me

[bencrush]

Things we have seen or are starting to see in grip contests – what do you think of them?

Wider grippers – the new Vulcan is even wider than the old one – which was wider than most torsion Spring Grippers.

I love the Vulcan. But I'm not a fan of it getting even wider than the first version was to be honest. I like the choked grippers event and have thought for quite a while that it's a great test of just simple gripper strength - minus the skill of setting.

The use of blocks of various sizes to “set” with.

Makes sense to me and it is better for judging when the sets are borderline questionable (MMS) sometimes in contests. It becomes hard to say yes that was a good lift or no it failed when the parallel sets are really close to being too deep.

Heavy support lifts like the Plateau Buster

Haven't had a chance yet to give the PB a try in a contest. But I will in November at the Fall Grip Decathlon. I think at the weights that are being lifted (north of 500lbs by some) it is becoming less of a grip test and more of a body test. If the handle was 2" it might be a better "grip test."

Frame holds – Hercules Holds etc for time (heavy endurance events)

Not a fan of this for the reason I gave on the PB above. Grip contest or lifting contest. I understand it'll inject some interest in the grip contests but I'm not personally a fan of it. Maybe that's just because I'm weak.

“Odd” objects like the Grip Topz

All for the GripTopz! Not had a chance yet (Fall Grip Decathlon) to try these out, but from what I hear they're pretty neat. And they are not limited by what the body can lift. Grip tests.

[bencrush]

I am at about the same strength relative to others in grippers and 2HP (I actually beat DH in grippers in a comp.). Which one do I regard as most 'prestigious'? The 2HP of course, by a mile.

Grippers. When the subject is "not grippers", there can be a very interesting subject on this and on other forums, or fantastic accomplishments by someone, complete with video. Hardly anyone cares, judging by the number of views. But "grippers"? Oh my goodness, hits galore, posts galore, discussions and obssessions galore. Regardless of what some folks may think, GRIPPERS are a key part of the sport. Grippers are where the vast majority start with the sport. You are correct, there is no end in sight.

I consider 2HP the most prestigious grip event too even though I am bottom of the barrel at it.

[Malice]

Wider grippers – the new Vulcan is even wider than the old one – which was wider than most torsion Spring Grippers.

If a deep set is used in the contest I don't really see an issue. Yeah it makes the set tougher but if you're closing from a deep set you need to be strong at setting hard grippers anyway.

The use of blocks of various sizes to “set” with.

Fantastic idea!

Heavy support lifts like the Plateau Buster

These at some point become as much or more about overall strength than grip strength so I think it would be better as a timed hold.

Frame holds – Hercules Holds etc for time (heavy endurance events)

I think these are great!

“Odd” objects like the Grip Topz

GripTopz are cool and I like the fact that they are based on old time feats but I think they would be better in a medley being that they are not as widely available and have not been out as long as most of the other stuff. They are very technique dependent.

[Cannon]

Regarding GripTopz being available, I've found cheap or free ways to duplicate each lift with almost total carryover to the actual lift. My stub is just a bent up red nail for example.

[jad]

Things we have seen or are starting to see in grip contests – what do you think of them?

Wider grippers – the new Vulcan is even wider than the old one – which was wider than most torsion Spring Grippers.

I haven't tried the new one but the old vulcan was really too wide for its own good in the sense that it's a bear to set but nowhere near as hard to close. I can only imagine this makes the problem worse. If we want a pure test of crushing strength I think the chokers are hard to beat. Dynos would be ideal but you'd have too many people whining about how they should be done and IMO that's why the $500 dyno that Pat donated didn't get a drop of interest (too many stipulations surrounding the cert).

The use of blocks of various sizes to “set” with.

Not a fan, too much hassle, just go with the chokers if you're that worried about it.

Heavy support lifts like the Plateau Buster

I enjoyed the event but it's clearly not just grip. I could have strapped in and not lifted anymore than I did. My hips were what felt like they were cashed out, not my grip and I have zero interest in training lower body for a "grip" event. Any contest this is in should have weight classes and real weight classes like Gripmas where you split the field not this 82.5kg and up stuff.

Frame holds – Hercules Holds etc for time (heavy endurance events)

I've done these twice at BBB and I thought the HH went very well. When Chris can beat out Chad and John Beatty on a lift like this it alleviates my concerns on bw and whole body strength.

“Odd” objects like the Grip Topz

I haven't tried the Griptopz in a contest setting but odd objects are what makes grip fun IMO. The more odd stuff, the more enticed I am to go to a contest (assuming it's not a bunch of handsize crap).

Edited October 2, 2011 by jad

[Bob Lipinski]

Things we have seen or are starting to see in grip contests – what do you think of them?

Wider grippers – the new Vulcan is even wider than the old one – which was wider than most torsion Spring Grippers.

Well, I can deal with them if I have to. It helps with the Ironmind grippers, if nothing else. My hands are on the small side, and the Vulcan still very useable.

The use of blocks of various sizes to “set” with.

No preference either way.

Heavy support lifts like the Plateau Buster

Mixed feelings. I do them at my contests sometimes, but then again I have been having oddball events lately, and I try to include things that guys into general strength will like. I have had these events at my last two contests, but not this year. I do think it is important to have the event be safe for the lower back, as many grip guys (myself included) have been injured before. I believe I kept both my heavy events above a 20" pick.

To some degree, I think holding very heavy objects should be part of grip, but I think the balance of the competition should test events that are more pure grip strength.

Frame holds – Hercules Holds etc for time (heavy endurance events)

Love them.

“Odd” objects like the Grip Topz

I am a big fan. Weird stuff like this is part of what makes grip what it is.