Road To Coc#4 - Time To Get This Done!

[Fist of Fury]

1 hour ago, Paul Savage said:

 

Some steel is easy to kink but has a harder sweep.
If you're having trouble with finishing reverse bends you can use the thumb grab technique, you grab the thumb pad with your fingers at the final part of the bend. It will probably be very good for you since you're very strong with grippers.

[Paul Savage]

5 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

Some steel is easy to kink but has a harder sweep.
If you're having trouble with finishing reverse bends you can use the thumb grab technique, you grab the thumb pad with your fingers at the final part of the bend. It will probably be very good for you since you're very strong with grippers.

I'm not sure what your meaning by grab the thumb pad? It wasn't an issue of strength though, it was that my hands were physically preventing me from going any further, they were stuck together. Each of my hands are almost 6" wide themselves. I finished the bend doing do technique then just squeezed it with my hands as soon as I could grab it but even after bending it reverse I still couldn't get anywhere close to a proper position under my chin, had to do it from mid to lower chest.

[Fist of Fury]

1 minute ago, Paul Savage said:

I'm not sure what your meaning by grab the thumb pad? It wasn't an issue of strength though, it was that my hands were physically preventing me from going any further, they were stuck together. Each of my hands are almost 6" wide themselves. I finished the bend doing do technique then just squeezed it with my hands as soon as I could grab it but even after bending it reverse I still couldn't get anywhere close to a proper position under my chin, had to do it from mid to lower chest.

It's a bit hard to explain in words. I read about it in David Horne's Gripopedia, there's an explanation of it there in the bending section. Apparently it was Jedd Johnson who first explained it. I don't know if there's any illustrations of it anywhere else. This takes care of the hand size issue.

As for DO I can't help you since I have the same problem myself.

[Fist of Fury]

You do need to bend the nails a bit farther to be able to implement the thumb grab though. Looking at your video again it seems like you need to use more leverage. If the rules of the competition allows it you can just use the wraps for better leverage, otherwise, if the wraps need to touch you can try to leave your pinkies off on both sides.

[Paul Savage]

1 hour ago, Fist of Fury said:

You do need to bend the nails a bit farther to be able to implement the thumb grab though. Looking at your video again it seems like you need to use more leverage. If the rules of the competition allows it you can just use the wraps for better leverage, otherwise, if the wraps need to touch you can try to leave your pinkies off on both sides.

By leverage do you mean going further out on the nail? I tried this but even with only two fingers on the hands were still touching so wasn't possible to bend any further. Bones were flush against each other.

[Fist of Fury]

1 hour ago, Paul Savage said:

By leverage do you mean going further out on the nail? I tried this but even with only two fingers on the hands were still touching so wasn't possible to bend any further. Bones were flush against each other.

Yes thats'a what I meant. Ok that's strange for a 6" nail I have to say. 

[Paul Savage]

5 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Yes thats'a what I meant. Ok that's strange for a 6" nail I have to say. 

Keep in mind I'm around 370lb bodyweight, again hands almost 6" across each. The nails seem really small to me.

[Fist of Fury]

Just now, Paul Savage said:

Keep in mind I'm around 370lb bodyweight, again hands almost 6" across each. The nails seem really small to me.

Yes but even if you only have two fingers on each side? That's really big hands. You probably have to increase the leverage with both the wraps and with hand positioning then.

[Paul Savage]

2 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

It's a bit hard to explain in words. I read about it in David Horne's Gripopedia, there's an explanation of it there in the bending section. Apparently it was Jedd Johnson who first explained it. I don't know if there's any illustrations of it anywhere else. This takes care of the hand size issue.

As for DO I can't help you since I have the same problem myself.

Ok thanks I'll look it up.

[Paul Savage]

4 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Yes but even if you only have two fingers on each side? That's really big hands. You probably have to increase the leverage with both the wraps and with hand positioning then.

I don't know how to show pictures on here but I can't actually get my pinky fingers on the nail even with the index fingers touching. I'll try see what I can do.

[Paul Savage]

 

[Paul Savage]

 

[Paul Savage]

 

[Paul Savage]

 

[Paul Savage]

 

[Paul Savage]

 

[Paul Savage]

 

[Paul Savage]

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Paul Savage

[Paul Savage]

 

[Paul Savage]

13 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

Paul have you gone through similar programming before with results?  I assume starting easy with hypertrophy work and ending up optimising what you have built up for maximum strength is the idea. However the general consensus seems to be that reps does not help much at all when it comes to maximum crush. Perhaps the reps build a foundation that allows you to in the end reach a higher ceiling. In theory that is. There are a couple of guys who only utilise singles or a couple of reps at the most and have been very succesfull, chez and si ghi choi comes to mind. Perhaps they could climb higher with more base work though.

I always find your insights pretty interesting, so I'm curious to know about your thoughts and experiences on this? 

 

That is indeed the general thinking on grippers, singles or low reps being best. It is however in my opinion, wrong. I also feel that I have some good proof to back up my opinion in that I have gone from only being able to close a trainer, to closing #4 with decently wide sets each hand, and a nats backside from ccs. I have also coached Becca to a level of gripper strength never seen before from a female (10 no set reps on #2, multiple ccs closes on #2.5 grippers), and done so in short order with less than 2 years training. I think that warrants a listen, but you judge it how you see it.

Going back to Becca, there's been recent proof of how effective high reps can be in that doing only high reps (most sets being around 20) has resulted in 10 reps on #2 no set and a ccs close on what looked to be a pretty stout #2.5

Proof in the pudding with that, however it isn't the finished article and it is indeed about building a bigger foundation to peak off, what I call base building. Most of the program however, is indeed high reps, it's only the last few workouts that will be low reps, then singles, and even then, some high reps will be kept in.

Singles and low reps won't build muscle in the hands and forearms so eventually you simply can't get any stronger, there's only so much the CNS can adapt.

[Sam Scott]

8 minutes ago, Paul Savage said:

That is indeed the general thinking on grippers, singles or low reps being best. It is however in my opinion, wrong. I also feel that I have some good proof to back up my opinion in that I have gone from only being able to close a trainer, to closing #4 with decently wide sets each hand, and a nats backside from ccs. I have also coached Becca to a level of gripper strength never seen before from a female (10 no set reps on #2, multiple ccs closes on #2.5 grippers), and done so in short order with less than 2 years training. I think that warrants a listen, but you judge it how you see it.

Going back to Becca, there's been recent proof of how effective high reps can be in that doing only high reps (most sets being around 20) has resulted in 10 reps on #2 no set and a ccs close on what looked to be a pretty stout #2.5

Proof in the pudding with that, however it isn't the finished article and it is indeed about building a bigger foundation to peak off, what I call base building. Most of the program however, is indeed high reps, it's only the last few workouts that will be low reps, then singles, and even then, some high reps will be kept in.

Singles and low reps won't build muscle in the hands and forearms so eventually you simply can't get any stronger, there's only so much the CNS can adapt.

For someone who talks about CCS a #4, I have yet to see a clear video of a #4 close from you while setting the gripper.

[Paul Savage]

2 hours ago, Sam Scott said:

For someone who talks about CCS a #4, I have yet to see a clear video of a #4 close from you while setting the gripper.

There's one on my old YouTube channel, one on my Instagram, clear? Maybe not, getting a clear video of a heavy gripper close can be harder than the close itself, and until the last few years I've very rarely had anyone to film for me.

That said, I've learn deeper set closes are pretty much useless when talking of ccs. Especially when doing so with the #4 bruises your palm. It's ccs closes that matter and I have shown clear videos of easy ccs closes on hard #3.5, 14 reps with #3 ccs, rb330 ccs. There's also a clear video of me doing a level 20 ccs close on a Vulcan gripper with the CROM spring. Best I've seen from anyone else was a level 17 from Paul knight, using an easier spring. He is certified on the #3.5

That said (and I probably just should not have responded), you believe what ever you want dude, I'm well and truly over arguing on the internet about pointless stuff

[jvance]

3 hours ago, Paul Savage said:

That is indeed the general thinking on grippers, singles or low reps being best. It is however in my opinion, wrong. I also feel that I have some good proof to back up my opinion in that I have gone from only being able to close a trainer, to closing #4 with decently wide sets each hand, and a nats backside from ccs. I have also coached Becca to a level of gripper strength never seen before from a female (10 no set reps on #2, multiple ccs closes on #2.5 grippers), and done so in short order with less than 2 years training. I think that warrants a listen, but you judge it how you see it.

Going back to Becca, there's been recent proof of how effective high reps can be in that doing only high reps (most sets being around 20) has resulted in 10 reps on #2 no set and a ccs close on what looked to be a pretty stout #2.5

Proof in the pudding with that, however it isn't the finished article and it is indeed about building a bigger foundation to peak off, what I call base building. Most of the program however, is indeed high reps, it's only the last few workouts that will be low reps, then singles, and even then, some high reps will be kept in.

Singles and low reps won't build muscle in the hands and forearms so eventually you simply can't get any stronger, there's only so much the CNS can adapt.

I know everybody is different, but I'm finding the rep work holds true for myself also. 

I'll keep at it for a while longer to see if progress continues to be linear but so far it has. Very easy build on the concept of progressive overload - adding sets and reps each week till you move up to a heavier gripper.

[Bill Piche]

I think building a base with reps and volume first is very important.   Hence, the RRBT program.  

[Paul Savage]

2 hours ago, Wannagrip said:

I think building a base with reps and volume first is very important.   Hence, the RRBT program.  

Yep, it's also good to have endurance and not just strength.