Workout Advice Please!

[Gossie]

I could really do with having a few pairs of experienced eyes run over my summer workout plan.

Let me introduce myself:

I’m 21, 5’9” and 185lbs (roughly 15-20% bf)

I'm new to lifting (4 months), and want a routine that will increase my strength on the mat and on the rugby pitch as well as helping me toward my strength goals.

Current lifts:

Squat- 130KG

Bench- 85kg

Deadlift – 155kg

Overhead press – 55kg

Medium term goals: (3 years time)

Squat- 180kg

Bench- 135kg

Deadlift- 220kg

Overhead press- 100kg

(other grip related goals that I will post about in the appropriate forum)

I want to also increase my overall conditioning and build myself up to 200lbs at 8-10% bf in 3 years, and 220lbs at same bf in 6-7 years.

Here's what I'm thinking.

Monday:

Parallel Squats

Standing Barbell press

Bent over rows

Sit ups 2x8-15 (plate behind head)

Farmers walk (work up to 100lb dumb bells then go for distance)

Wednesday

Still undecided for this day, was thinking maybe;

Full body workout with my 100lb and 150lb sandbags and empty keg that im gonna fill with water.

Power work practicing power cleans and Olympic lifts.

Friday:

Deadlift

Bench press

Chin ups (Work up to 3x10 reps then start to add weight)

Side bends

Dips 2x8-15 (I will start adding weight when I can get hold of a belt)

Sandbag Carry (progressively increase distance)

I will do each compound exercise for 4 progressively heavier warm up sets and then one all out set of five. I will add weight to the bar consistently whenever is possible.

I am also planning to jump rope up to five days a week for conditioning and do power & agility drills with my rope. I’ve just finished reading “cardio strength training” and like some of the Barbell & dumbbell complexes for metabolic conditioning. Was thinking about tying them on to the end of each strength training day (mon & fri), good or bad idea?

I was also thinking of adding some flexibility drills on Tuesday and Thursday aswell as some light calisthenics and bodyweight exercises as I am trying to build up to 100 push ups and 300 bodyweight squats.

I will be purchasing some fat gripz for all my upper body work and also working with COC grippers. What do you guys think the best way to integrate gripper and pinch grip work into my routine. After weights sessions or on off days?

I will have weekends off training except maybe for some light swimming or other sport training.

I am eating pretty clean shovelling down lots of good food especially milk veggies and meat. I’m sure there’s room for improvement but It’s the best I can manage at this point.

If you managed to read all that without falling asleep thank you! Hope its not too cheeky asking for advice on one of my first posts! Any honest feedback on my goals or workout plan would be MUCH appreciated. I know I have tonnes to learn from members of this board!

Cheers,

Gossie.

[BGally]

I could really do with having a few pairs of experienced eyes run over my summer workout plan.

Let me introduce myself:

I'm 21, 5'9" and 185lbs (roughly 15-20% bf)

I'm new to lifting (4 months), and want a routine that will increase my strength on the mat and on the rugby pitch as well as helping me toward my strength goals.

Current lifts:

Squat- 130KG

Bench- 85kg

Deadlift – 155kg

Overhead press – 55kg

Medium term goals: (3 years time)

Squat- 180kg

Bench- 135kg

Deadlift- 220kg

Overhead press- 100kg

(other grip related goals that I will post about in the appropriate forum)

I want to also increase my overall conditioning and build myself up to 200lbs at 8-10% bf in 3 years, and 220lbs at same bf in 6-7 years.

Here's what I'm thinking.

Monday:

Parallel Squats

Standing Barbell press

Bent over rows

Sit ups 2x8-15 (plate behind head)

Farmers walk (work up to 100lb dumb bells then go for distance)

Wednesday

Still undecided for this day, was thinking maybe;

Full body workout with my 100lb and 150lb sandbags and empty keg that im gonna fill with water.

Power work practicing power cleans and Olympic lifts.

Friday:

Deadlift

Bench press

Chin ups (Work up to 3x10 reps then start to add weight)

Side bends

Dips 2x8-15 (I will start adding weight when I can get hold of a belt)

Sandbag Carry (progressively increase distance)

I will do each compound exercise for 4 progressively heavier warm up sets and then one all out set of five. I will add weight to the bar consistently whenever is possible.

I am also planning to jump rope up to five days a week for conditioning and do power & agility drills with my rope. I've just finished reading "cardio strength training" and like some of the Barbell & dumbbell complexes for metabolic conditioning. Was thinking about tying them on to the end of each strength training day (mon & fri), good or bad idea?

I was also thinking of adding some flexibility drills on Tuesday and Thursday aswell as some light calisthenics and bodyweight exercises as I am trying to build up to 100 push ups and 300 bodyweight squats.

I will be purchasing some fat gripz for all my upper body work and also working with COC grippers. What do you guys think the best way to integrate gripper and pinch grip work into my routine. After weights sessions or on off days?

I will have weekends off training except maybe for some light swimming or other sport training.

I am eating pretty clean shovelling down lots of good food especially milk veggies and meat. I'm sure there's room for improvement but It's the best I can manage at this point.

If you managed to read all that without falling asleep thank you! Hope its not too cheeky asking for advice on one of my first posts! Any honest feedback on my goals or workout plan would be MUCH appreciated. I know I have tonnes to learn from members of this board!

Cheers,

Gossie.

It looks like you have a well thought out plan with reasonable goals. Thinking years down the line instead of months is how you will have longevity and progress in strength training.

I train the bench, squat, over-head press, and dead lift on 4 separate days with assistance exercises that complement the lift of that day. I have been doing specific grip work for less than a year (I really love it) so I might not be the most qualified in that department. I find it easer to do pinch and thick bar lifts after my training session and grippers at home. I avoid grip work after heavy dead lifts. It looks like you are planning to do a lot of volume on Mon. and Fri. so you might want to do grip on separate days.

If your main focus is on power lifting you will need split more training sessions into your week. It would be hard to lift at that volume if you were lifting heavier and still see gains.

If your focus is more on strongman type of stuff, your current split could work but you would probably still want to train 4 days a week.

You could train 2 days on weights and 2 days with your bag and grip work.

Cardio requires a lot of recovery planning so the more you do, do less gym work. Intervals at high intensity are the best at sparing muscle while trying to burn calories. I like hill sprints, prowler pushes also kick ass. I jump rope as well, a good warm up.

If aesthetics are part of your goal then the 4 day split with weight training might work better if your genetics aren't so great because you can work more on balance and symmetry

If you look for strength training programs, shy away from anything that revolves around achieving goals in a certain time span. Shock programs are ok once in a while but usually you lose strength after the time period so whats the point?

I like trying set out programs that I have researched, I have been following 5-3-1 by Jim Wendler for the last 4 months and feeling strong and healthy.

Good luck,

Bryan

[Gossie]

I could really do with having a few pairs of experienced eyes run over my summer workout plan.

Let me introduce myself:

I'm 21, 5'9" and 185lbs (roughly 15-20% bf)

I'm new to lifting (4 months), and want a routine that will increase my strength on the mat and on the rugby pitch as well as helping me toward my strength goals.

Current lifts:

Squat- 130KG

Bench- 85kg

Deadlift – 155kg

Overhead press – 55kg

Medium term goals: (3 years time)

Squat- 180kg

Bench- 135kg

Deadlift- 220kg

Overhead press- 100kg

(other grip related goals that I will post about in the appropriate forum)

I want to also increase my overall conditioning and build myself up to 200lbs at 8-10% bf in 3 years, and 220lbs at same bf in 6-7 years.

Here's what I'm thinking.

Monday:

Parallel Squats

Standing Barbell press

Bent over rows

Sit ups 2x8-15 (plate behind head)

Farmers walk (work up to 100lb dumb bells then go for distance)

Wednesday

Still undecided for this day, was thinking maybe;

Full body workout with my 100lb and 150lb sandbags and empty keg that im gonna fill with water.

Power work practicing power cleans and Olympic lifts.

Friday:

Deadlift

Bench press

Chin ups (Work up to 3x10 reps then start to add weight)

Side bends

Dips 2x8-15 (I will start adding weight when I can get hold of a belt)

Sandbag Carry (progressively increase distance)

I will do each compound exercise for 4 progressively heavier warm up sets and then one all out set of five. I will add weight to the bar consistently whenever is possible.

I am also planning to jump rope up to five days a week for conditioning and do power & agility drills with my rope. I've just finished reading "cardio strength training" and like some of the Barbell & dumbbell complexes for metabolic conditioning. Was thinking about tying them on to the end of each strength training day (mon & fri), good or bad idea?

I was also thinking of adding some flexibility drills on Tuesday and Thursday aswell as some light calisthenics and bodyweight exercises as I am trying to build up to 100 push ups and 300 bodyweight squats.

I will be purchasing some fat gripz for all my upper body work and also working with COC grippers. What do you guys think the best way to integrate gripper and pinch grip work into my routine. After weights sessions or on off days?

I will have weekends off training except maybe for some light swimming or other sport training.

I am eating pretty clean shovelling down lots of good food especially milk veggies and meat. I'm sure there's room for improvement but It's the best I can manage at this point.

If you managed to read all that without falling asleep thank you! Hope its not too cheeky asking for advice on one of my first posts! Any honest feedback on my goals or workout plan would be MUCH appreciated. I know I have tonnes to learn from members of this board!

Cheers,

Gossie.

It looks like you have a well thought out plan with reasonable goals. Thinking years down the line instead of months is how you will have longevity and progress in strength training.

I train the bench, squat, over-head press, and dead lift on 4 separate days with assistance exercises that complement the lift of that day. I have been doing specific grip work for less than a year (I really love it) so I might not be the most qualified in that department. I find it easer to do pinch and thick bar lifts after my training session and grippers at home. I avoid grip work after heavy dead lifts. It looks like you are planning to do a lot of volume on Mon. and Fri. so you might want to do grip on separate days.

If your main focus is on power lifting you will need split more training sessions into your week. It would be hard to lift at that volume if you were lifting heavier and still see gains.

If your focus is more on strongman type of stuff, your current split could work but you would probably still want to train 4 days a week.

You could train 2 days on weights and 2 days with your bag and grip work.

Cardio requires a lot of recovery planning so the more you do, do less gym work. Intervals at high intensity are the best at sparing muscle while trying to burn calories. I like hill sprints, prowler pushes also kick ass. I jump rope as well, a good warm up.

If aesthetics are part of your goal then the 4 day split with weight training might work better if your genetics aren't so great because you can work more on balance and symmetry

If you look for strength training programs, shy away from anything that revolves around achieving goals in a certain time span. Shock programs are ok once in a while but usually you lose strength after the time period so whats the point?

I like trying set out programs that I have researched, I have been following 5-3-1 by Jim Wendler for the last 4 months and feeling strong and healthy.

Good luck,

Bryan

[Gossie]

Cheers for the excellent feedback Bryan.

I was wondering about the volume on monday and friday but figured as Im only going to be doing five work reps for each excercise it would be ok.

In response, I currently do not aspire to compete in powerlifting per se, I just intent to get real strong on the lifts for the sport/life carryover (although who knows).

Strongman style strength/fitness really appeals to me so when I have built a solid all round strength base in a few years time I will look into it further.

So do you think I could get away with working on my strength endurance throughout the week with push ups and bodyweight squats without cutting into my recovery for my heavy days?

With regards to your point about aesthetics, I am not looking for the "ideal physique". I see getting a good physique as an inevitable offshoot of sending my strength and conditioning through the roof. As long as I look strong, lean and in proportion I will be happy!

Cheers mate.

Gossie.

[BGally]

Cheers for the excellent feedback Bryan.

I was wondering about the volume on monday and friday but figured as Im only going to be doing five work reps for each excercise it would be ok.

In response, I currently do not aspire to compete in powerlifting per se, I just intent to get real strong on the lifts for the sport/life carryover (although who knows).

Strongman style strength/fitness really appeals to me so when I have built a solid all round strength base in a few years time I will look into it further.

So do you think I could get away with working on my strength endurance throughout the week with push ups and bodyweight squats without cutting into my recovery for my heavy days?

With regards to your point about aesthetics, I am not looking for the "ideal physique". I see getting a good physique as an inevitable offshoot of sending my strength and conditioning through the roof. As long as I look strong, lean and in proportion I will be happy!

Cheers mate.

Gossie.

I would add some hamstring work into your schedule, good mornings and glute ham raises are the best IMO.

When you talk about strength endurance are you talking about body weight exercising with high reps like around 50+? I don't think this should be a staple in ones workout. A test from time to time is good but doing pushups all the time is only going to make you good at doing pushups. My rational is this, if you can bench 100kg x 1 rep then you should be able to bench 70 kg x 10 and 50 kg x 30. You don't have specifically train in the rep range of 30 to build that endurance up. The endurance will come more from the strength itself and from hard cardio, i.e. high intensity intervals.

It will be easy to lose fat on your program but If you want to add mass, train like a bodybuilder from time to time.

Bryan

Edited April 19, 2011 by BGally

[Gossie]

thanks for the advice mate. Interesting take on building endurance I'd never really thought of it like that.

[tukkergrip]

Hello welcome,

Your program is looking really good already, but I got some advice> Brian is pretty right about splitting the big movements (like squat, deadlift) in seperated workouts for more gains. But it's more personally IMO. If you can take all compound exercises in 1 program (squat, deadlift etc) then it's fine. But I can tell you it's really hard, but if you can train them all with full energy in one workout then its great. Most of the time its too much for your body because you're still beginning. Some bodybuilders and strongman do a lot compound exercises in one training for example so its just more personal than scientific.

However regarding exercises there is some scientific explanation. You wrote you would do chinups but i would rather advocate pull ups!! Much more a natural movement and better for your back etc, and fucntional strength. I read somewere that chinups can actually be bad for your back and this is with a pretty good explanation. believe me.

Also bench presses are a great exercise, they build a lot of mass etc. But a full range of motion bench press can actually be really bad for your chest. As a chest muscle just is not build for handling a lot of weight that deep down most of the time. (pretty much all good bench pressers who have gone over like 200K, have had multiple torn pecs). You can do them, your call. But i would advise pushups with weight on the back or just not really full range of motion bench presses (do partial benches like 1-2 inch from chest). Or you can do full range of motion if you have a big , deep chest however :P.

Good luck

[tukkergrip]

Actually, I really think the pushup with weights on the back is a freakin good ole exercise because with it you also train your core muscles alot. Escpecially for rugby as you can use some pushing strength (comes from abs and back too not just chest shoulders triceps). And its all in one movement. And pullups are also a really good exercise. They can build alot of mass in the back and arms (wide back not deep). They also give you (along with all the other all aroudn training) a much better posture around the middle back region. You can also try prowler pushes for core and pushing strength/tire flips and then push it as hard as possible in the ground if you have those trhings (I have not ).

[deadlifterfromberlin]

...

Also bench presses are a great exercise, they build a lot of mass etc. But a full range of motion bench press can actually be really bad for your chest. As a chest muscle just is not build for handling a lot of weight that deep down most of the time. (pretty much all good bench pressers who have gone over like 200K, have had multiple torn pecs). You can do them, your call. But i would advise pushups with weight on the back or just not really full range of motion bench presses (do partial benches like 1-2 inch from chest). Or you can do full range of motion if you have a big , deep chest however :P.

Good luck

Welcome Gossie!

All sound advice, as Bryan describes you can test different ways of training (5,3,1, Westside, 5x5,...) for a while and see how it works for YOU (=learn from it). Different muscles will react differently, as the mixture of musclefiber types varies for each person from muscle to muscle (strength/endurance...).

The point with "multiple torn pecs" is something I mainly happen to see in bench pressers who lower the barbell rather high on the chest with the elbows flared out wide - not a natural position, puts a lot of force on the pectoralis major. Also dangerous for the shoulderjoints!

So when benching

-lower to a point between your nipples and solar plexus (depens on position on bench, grip witdth, arm length, ...), elbows should stay perpendicular under the bar (or at least close to) = more natural range of motion

-lower, not drop, barbell

-keep elbows closer to touching your sides than beeing as far from your torso as possible

-try to press straigth up, the transition of the bar to a position over the shoulders at the top will happen more or less automatic when your arms straighten

As far as the weigthed push up goes, good exercise, elbows should move basically the same way as in benching.

Stay healthy and get strong!

[Gossie]

Hello welcome,

Your program is looking really good already, but I got some advice> Brian is pretty right about splitting the big movements (like squat, deadlift) in seperated workouts for more gains. But it's more personally IMO. If you can take all compound exercises in 1 program (squat, deadlift etc) then it's fine. But I can tell you it's really hard, but if you can train them all with full energy in one workout then its great. Most of the time its too much for your body because you're still beginning. Some bodybuilders and strongman do a lot compound exercises in one training for example so its just more personal than scientific.

However regarding exercises there is some scientific explanation. You wrote you would do chinups but i would rather advocate pull ups!! Much more a natural movement and better for your back etc, and fucntional strength. I read somewere that chinups can actually be bad for your back and this is with a pretty good explanation. believe me.

Also bench presses are a great exercise, they build a lot of mass etc. But a full range of motion bench press can actually be really bad for your chest. As a chest muscle just is not build for handling a lot of weight that deep down most of the time. (pretty much all good bench pressers who have gone over like 200K, have had multiple torn pecs). You can do them, your call. But i would advise pushups with weight on the back or just not really full range of motion bench presses (do partial benches like 1-2 inch from chest). Or you can do full range of motion if you have a big , deep chest however :P.

Good luck

Thanks for the advice. I have found that as long as I dont squat and deadlift on the same day I'm fine. Maybe I havent got heavy enough yet for it to become an issue. However my gains have started to slow as was expected so I've bought some 0.5kg plates so I can hopefully keep piling it on every workout for a while. I've taken your advice on the pull ups, good idea I'm sure they are a better excercises. I will keep working on my bench press form, my lifetime goal is 400lbs so hopefully I can get there sensibly without any serious injuries.

Thanks Buddy!

[Gossie]

...

Also bench presses are a great exercise, they build a lot of mass etc. But a full range of motion bench press can actually be really bad for your chest. As a chest muscle just is not build for handling a lot of weight that deep down most of the time. (pretty much all good bench pressers who have gone over like 200K, have had multiple torn pecs). You can do them, your call. But i would advise pushups with weight on the back or just not really full range of motion bench presses (do partial benches like 1-2 inch from chest). Or you can do full range of motion if you have a big , deep chest however :P.

Good luck

Welcome Gossie!

All sound advice, as Bryan describes you can test different ways of training (5,3,1, Westside, 5x5,...) for a while and see how it works for YOU (=learn from it). Different muscles will react differently, as the mixture of musclefiber types varies for each person from muscle to muscle (strength/endurance...).

The point with "multiple torn pecs" is something I mainly happen to see in bench pressers who lower the barbell rather high on the chest with the elbows flared out wide - not a natural position, puts a lot of force on the pectoralis major. Also dangerous for the shoulderjoints!

So when benching

-lower to a point between your nipples and solar plexus (depens on position on bench, grip witdth, arm length, ...), elbows should stay perpendicular under the bar (or at least close to) = more natural range of motion

-lower, not drop, barbell

-keep elbows closer to touching your sides than beeing as far from your torso as possible

-try to press straigth up, the transition of the bar to a position over the shoulders at the top will happen more or less automatic when your arms straighten

As far as the weigthed push up goes, good exercise, elbows should move basically the same way as in benching.

Stay healthy and get strong!

Great tips mate, thanks! I'm on a version of 5x5 prescribed in "dinosaur training" at the moment. Might give westside a try when my progress stalls.

Cheers.