A Request From All Plate Curlers Out There

[Guest Ray]

It's a shame Nick wanted the pic removed,because, of

the two pics in the gallery, David Erives shot doesn't show

the ball busting effort required to do this feat!

Anyone looking at just the pic of David "Gorilla hands"

could be forgiven in thinking the weight was swung up,

not so with Nick's picture.

This doesn't mean i believe Dave swung the weight up,

i just think Nick's pic better illustrated the intensity of effort

required for the lift.

[AnimalCage]

I've yet to see any photo anywhere that shows Nick's level of intensity.

[OldGuy]

The pics of McKinless showed a better lift with the plate held at a much higher angle. The heavier and wider the plate the harder it is to keep the plate angle held high as you attempt to curl it.

[Tom of Iowa2]

This thread started out about the plate curl and /or wrist plate curl...I train both these exercises a little....However I'm not familiar with the Table Top Wrist Curl.

Bseedot gave a good description.i think I've seen a pic somewhere on the net before??cna't find it now.

Could someone give me a link to the pic(s)?

EXACTLY what are the dimensions of the Table?

Height.Width.Length.

I guess height of table would be the most important aspect when comparing lifts with others?Although different heights might suit different athletes.

I think we are going to build a table and give em a try...(we've done an exercise simialr to this with heavy poundages while seated on a bench and curling the weight from the bench but this leaves me in an uncomfortable 'hunched over' position to get the forearms flat on the bench....)

[Bearcat 74]

Nick looked like he did a hard ass plate curl. Gorilla hands looked like he was delivering a pizza.........

Nick's was better hands down.

[OldGuy]

Try here Tom for the info you are looking for.

http://ukgrip.info

[OldGuy]

Pizza that was about to slide forward onto the floor.

[Tom of Iowa2]

Thanks Old guy.I had lost the 'address'to the site.

Anyone,

What is the size of the 'lifting ring'that is used in the photos?

It looks smaller circumference than ours?(we now have a 1 inch by 5 and another that is 1 1/8" and even bigger around...

It looks like a 5/8"X 4?

David Horne or any one else that used it?info would help.

Thanks.

Also(I may have missed it but I'll go back to the site and look around)the height and width of the table?We would like to dupliacte it.Exactly.

[OldGuy]

They say it has a 1'' thick handle. It looks like a triangle shape rather than a ring. My ring is 5/8'' thick 4 3/4'' inside diameter.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Yes, I had never done the TTWC before last year's British Grip Champs. To be sure, both the TTWC and a plate curl require good finger and wrist strength. I'm not sure that I'm willing to agree with a TTWC being a very strict measure of wrist strength though, if 'very strict' is intended to mean that the wrist is isolated and the only contributor to whether or not the lift is successful. I say this because the closer you can place the barbell to your wrist the better leverage you are working with on the TTWC. A great way to achieve this leverage advantage is with a thumbless grip and four very strong fingers. It makes sense then that long fingers will also be a benefit in the TTWC, given that those long fingers are strong. As a thumbless grip is allowed in competition, the bar isn't placed so much in the palm of the hand as it is as close to the edge of the base of the hand.

Evidence for the importance of finger strength in the TTWC can be found from Jim Wylie's minor injury in preparation for the contest last year. Had his fingers been stronger the bar would not have slipped from his grasp, causing the bar to roll onto his wrists. And at the same time had he placed the bar just a fraction of an inch farther away from his wrists he would likely have had the finger strength to hold the bar, but at the expense of creating a leverage disadvantage. Such is life as we push the envelope of greater poundages. Also, none of the 'good' poundages we've seen in the TTWC could ever be achieved without using the thumbless technique.

Another technique I picked up on during the contest was the importance of a slow negative before given the 'lift' comand from the judge. I was performing the negative portion of the lift much too quickly and bringing the complete back of my hand to a rest on the table. At least as it was judged in 2002, as soon as any portion of the back of your hands touched the table you were given the 'lift' command- thus the advantage of a very slow negative. Of course, I learned this after all of my attempts were used up

I want to add too that Nick's plate curl that was posted in the gallery was the best pic I have ever seen of this feat.

BC.

Respectfully disagree. As far as wrist exercises go, the TTWC does reflect differences in wrist strength in a fair way IMO, especially in the one hand variant, where it is more a matter of pushing away the bar with your fingertips. The area in which there is a risk of having the bar rolling onto your wrists seems to very narrow in the two hand TTWC, so I doubt that long fingers is such a great advantage. David seems to be able to keep it in a favourable position in spite of having relatively short fingers. Likewise, Nick does not have very long fingers either from what I have heard, yet he is very good at the TTWC. Long fingers usually come with a long palm negating a possible benefit. I am not saying this to promote a favourite lift. I suck at TTWC's.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

I may also add that in your case it seems more to be a matter of not having done enough preparation on the lift for whatever reason. Once one gets the hang of it it seems pretty straight forward.

[bseedot]

I've yet to see any photo anywhere that shows Nick's level of intensity.

'Intensity' in a still shot can be faked, just as the feat itself can be faked. This is nothing we don't know already. So I don't get yelled at here, I believe that certainly not to be the case in Nick's plate curl shot, just pointing out that it can be done. Now, digital cameras are a bit tricky with timing when to take a shot (they don't take the shot exactly when the button is fully depressed), but I'll bet that I could make a pretty good fake of me plate curling a 45, high intensity and all...

Tom, I don't know the exact height of the table used for David's TTWC, but I wouldn't imagine it to matter all that much as long as it's not so high that people can't get their forearms on the table. Anywhere around average waist or belly height would work I think. Most people, including me, tend to hover their head over their hands anyway (in the hunched position that you described for yourself).

This has been discussed long ago I think, but what is the hardest position of a plate curl? Truthfully, I don't consider GorillaHands' plate curl to be a valid attempt as his wrist is bent, quite badly at that. There is also a pic of Michael Daly's plate curl but I don't see where there is much leverage disadvantage, at least at the point in which the picture was taken. If anything, I would think that lateral wrist strength would come into play when the plate is perpendicular to the ground to prevent the plate from sliding sideways out of the hand. I'm no math whiz but it seems intuitively that the hardest position to hold would be when the plate is parallel to the ground (the forearm would also be parallel to the ground). That is where the diameter of the plate is its most formidable. If you drop an imaginary line straight down from the hand and another straight down from the end of the plate, those lines will be at their greatest distance from each other. Any degree of variation, plus or minus, from this parallel to the ground position and those imaginary lines become shorter, thus creating a greater advantage leveragewise. Does this make any sense?

BC.

[bseedot]

"As far as wrist exercises go, the TTWC does reflect differences in wrist strength in a fair way IMO, especially in the one hand variant, where it is more a matter of pushing away the bar with your fingertips."

Fair enough. I made an assumption about what you meant by 'very strict measure'. I'm still not entirely clear what you mean by that but I do have a better idea now. I agree with you that the TTWC is a fair way to test wrist strength given that everyone knows how to perform the lift as it will be judged. It is certainly one of the easier tests of wrist strength to judge. I haven't performed the one-handed version so I can't say anything about that.

"The area in which there is a risk of having the bar rolling onto your wrists seems to very narrow in the two hand TTWC, so I doubt that long fingers is such a great advantage. David seems to be able to keep it in a favourable position in spite of having relatively short fingers. Likewise, Nick does not have very long fingers either from what I have heard, yet he is very good at the TTWC."

Yes, the area is very narrow. I mentioned the bar positioning not as a defense for the advantage of longer fingers, but to point out that the lift is certainly not a test of pure wrist strength. Finger strength is very much involved as well, at least in the two-handed version, which gets back to me wondering what you meant by 'very strict measure'.

"Long fingers usually come with a long palm negating a possible benefit."

Good point.

BC.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Honestly, I doubt finger strength plays a crucial role in a TTWC. A while back Arne and I maxed out in the two hand TTWC and neither of us felt that finger strength played a major role. You can't be without it, sure, but to say that it makes up a good portion of the lift is possibly too much. Maybe I am wrong or maybe not. I agree that "very strict" is a somewhat inaccurate way of describing it. Let's say "fairly strict".

[bseedot]

Well, I think that to hoist the kind of weights that we see David hoisting finger strength is crucial (and I was even told that at the contest). The sheer mechanics of the lift indicate that the closer you can get the bar to your wrist the greater the leverage advantage (i.e. less wrist strength is required as the bar gets closer to your wrist). But to do this you need to be able to hold the bar sufficiently with finger strength. No doubt that it's a very fine line to tread. Jim knows from his mishap last year.

As the TTWC curl is a test of wrist strength, of course the more weight you can bear with other parts of your body the better will be your TTWC poundage. Just placing the bar another millimeter closer to your wrists will give you greater poundages in that lift because your wrist is required do lift less. But the weight that you've relieved your wrists from carrying doesn't just disappear- it's got to be taken up by another body part- your fingers. This is no different from seeing form breaks in any other lift, grip or otherwise (e.g. leaning back while OHPing).

I'm not saying that this way of TTWC is breaking form... that's the way this version of the lift is supposed to be performed. But it is the same in that we try to recruit as many 'other' muscles as we can to make a lift, while recruiting the actual muscles being tested as little as possible. This allows greater poundages to be lifted.

It's the same reason why someone would swing a plate up in a plate curl, less stress is placed on the wrist...

BC.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Well, I think that to hoist the kind of weights that we see David hoisting finger strength is crucial (and I was even told that at the contest). The sheer mechanics of the lift indicate that the closer you can get the bar to your wrist the greater the leverage advantage (i.e. less wrist strength is required as the bar gets closer to your wrist). But to do this you need to be able to hold the bar sufficiently with finger strength. No doubt that it's a very fine line to tread. Jim knows from his mishap last year.

As the TTWC curl is a test of wrist strength, of course the more weight you can bear with other parts of your body the better will be your TTWC poundage. Just placing the bar another millimeter closer to your wrists will give you greater poundages in that lift because your wrist is required do lift less. But the weight that you've relieved your wrists from carrying doesn't just disappear- it's got to be taken up by another body part- your fingers. This is no different from seeing form breaks in any other lift, grip or otherwise (e.g. leaning back while OHPing).

I'm not saying that this way of TTWC is breaking form... that's the way this version of the lift is supposed to be performed. But it is the same in that we try to recruit as many 'other' muscles as we can to make a lift, while recruiting the actual muscles being tested as little as possible. This allows greater poundages to be lifted.

It's the same reason why someone would swing a plate up in a plate curl, less stress is placed on the wrist...

BC.

David told me finger strength is important, but I still doubt it. In those mishaps that I have seen, the bar has rolled onto the wrist because the lifter curled it in a jerky motion, making the bar litterally jumping onto the wrists. In no case was it a matter of the bar sliding away from the fingertips. I believe most has the ability to explore the limits of their wrists in a TTWC without finger strength being a severely limiting factor. Maybe you could gain another few per cent but not much more.

[Sybersnott]

Let's make a list of certain strength feats for video and do them at the AOBS. I have a camcorder and can videotape them for all to see.

[bseedot]

David told me finger strength is important, but I still doubt it. In those mishaps that I have seen, the bar has rolled onto the wrist because the lifter curled it in a jerky motion, making the bar litterally jumping onto the wrists. In no case was it a matter of the bar sliding away from the fingertips. I believe most has the ability to explore the limits of their wrists in a TTWC without finger strength being a severely limiting factor. Maybe you could gain another few per cent but not much more.

Please do continue to doubt it- your competitors will thank you for it. I think that you're missing the point about the leveraging involved in the TTWC. Even if a few percent gain is all there is, I'll gladly take it. That adds about 7.5kg to my best TTWC. You can leave that gain on the... er... table if you wish

BC.

[Roark]

For those who lack the set-up, or assistants, to try a

TTWC, simply perform a seated wrist curl with barbell,

but have the backs of the hands ON TOP on the knees

rather than extended into space beyond the knees.

You will be amazed at how much easier a given amount of

weight is in this manner.

[supersqueeze]

You can do them without assistants in a rack with your wrists on a bench or on your thighs as Roark suggests. However doing them this way does not allow you to start at the top of the movement. It's probably ok for training but no good for max attempts.

Mike M.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

I think that you're missing the point about the leveraging involved in the TTWC. Even if a few percent gain is all there is, I'll gladly take it. That adds about 7.5kg to my best TTWC. You can leave that gain on the... er... table if you wish

BC.

I do understand the leveraging point. I am not totally stupid. We are almost talking about the same thing and both like to have the last word.