Results Of My Bannister Drags Experiment

[bencrush]

Did my max test this afternoon on my Mouse Pinch at 47mm. Warmed up and then pulled 190lbs for a 3lb PR on the Mouse Pinch. Not satisfied with that poundage - because it went up light as a feather - I put 207lbs on and pulled that as high as physically possible with my Mouse Pinch setup. Got that on video and I'm very pleased with the 20lbs increase on the Mouse Pinch in a month!

Here's the disappointing part of the experiment. I rested a while and then did 2HP on my (2)35s setup. Maxed out at 175lbs. Seriously. The width is 63mm - so it's different enough to possibly not have a carryover I guess. But I'm quite disappointed that there wasn't a huge increase on my 2HP setup too. And frankly, I'm at the end of my patience when it comes to increasing my "REAL" 2HP on an actual setup that's not the Mouse Pinch. I love my Mouse Pinch by the way. I'm just irritated with my hands for not responding like everyone else seems to and at least getting some carryover to a normal 2HP setup. I have a feeling that if I was in a contest I'd be around the 180lb mark with a Euro Pinch right now. The Mouse Pinch is pulled from quite a bit higher than a contest setup and that must be the huge difference that I'm finding. I'm no dummy of course on this stuff. I pay attention to details. But I still thought that increasing my Mouse Pinch strength would have a direct carryover to my 63mm 2HP setup.

So I'm torn. Very pleased with the results of the Bannister Drags on my Mouse Pinch performance. Very disappointed with the lack of results on my 2HP setup. My 2HP setup by the way has been a good indicator of what I've been able to do in a contest setting or on a Euro Pinch apparatus. So being at the 175lb mark still is the exact opposite of what I want if I'm going to enter a grip contest any time soon.

I have a USAWA grip contest in February that has 2HP in it. I'd better get to work and try to figure out what the hell is wrong with me when it comes to a real 2HP setup! Wish I lived a lot closer to a big pincher because it might be as easy as someone showing me a better method of gripping it for my hand topography. Not like it should be that hard though. Grip and pull, right? LOL.

Still quite impressed with the increase on the Mouse Pinch as a direct result of the Bannister Drags - even after all the complaining that I've done.

[bencrush]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDgr9rPH2r0

Might've been the honey badger hoodie that was responsible for the 20lb increase now that I think about it. There is nothing more awesome than a honey badger. Anyone who's seen one on tv knows what I'm talking about.

[rico300zx]

Ben first of all great increase, second, ditch the 63mm 35lb disks and make yourself a 2hp that is 48mm, go to the junkyard and find some circles,do what you have to,but get the width correct and make sure it matches to what width will be used in comp. Your hands are liking the mouse because of the width. You can still use the thirty fives just dont get all worked up because its too thick for you, and youll be using 48mm in the comp anyway, so dont get bummed about that width, dont you see your training on thinner widths THEN expecting gains on a thicker one?

And my second thought is...if I just hit a 20lb PR on the pinch it would taks me days to recover, not a little rest and go for a max again, see whT I mean?

Parris

Edited December 24, 2010 by rico300zx

[bencrush]

Ben first of all great increase, second, ditch the 63mm 35lb disks and make yourself a 2hp that is 48mm, go to the junkyard and find some circles,do what you have to,but get the width correct and make sure it matches to what width will be used in comp. Your hands are liking the mouse because of the width. You can still use the thirty fives just dont get all worked up because its too thick for you, dont you see your training on thinner widths THEN expecting gains on a thicker one?

Parris

I'm sure you're right Parris. I just have such a hard time believing that I'm that much off (32lbs?) on such a small difference in grip width on 2HP. It's obvious that I am that far off but it really baffles me since my hands are not small and my thumb is not short - so it always seemed to me that I'd be better at thicker widths.

[rico300zx]

Well your not making the gains you want so stay with the 48mm untill you master it, choosing the correct 2hp width is not about finger length and thumb size, its about palm size. Well thats my opinion at least.

Parris

[barbe705]

between the difference in width and the tilt you can get with a mouse but not a 2hp(or 2 discs) I wouldn't worry about it. someone just posted about using a 2x4 for pinch and jedd pointed out the huge difference between adam glass's pinch dead vs his 2hp. it was 250# vs 200#. if you're going to use the mouse you should make sure that when you test you pull straight up, no tilt. I think that will give you a truer result. also, 15mm is a pretty huge difference. I think my pinch is 62mm, I pull on 58mm, and my home pr is 210 vs 230 comp. a lot of variables at play with what you're using.

[barbe705]

Ben first of all great increase, second, ditch the 63mm 35lb disks and make yourself a 2hp that is 48mm, go to the junkyard and find some circles,do what you have to,but get the width correct and make sure it matches to what width will be used in comp. Your hands are liking the mouse because of the width. You can still use the thirty fives just dont get all worked up because its too thick for you, dont you see your training on thinner widths THEN expecting gains on a thicker one?

Parris

I'm sure you're right Parris. I just have such a hard time believing that I'm that much off (32lbs?) on such a small difference in grip width on 2HP. It's obvious that I am that far off but it really baffles me since my hands are not small and my thumb is not short - so it always seemed to me that I'd be better at thicker widths.

My 5' 4" wife pulls at the same width as 6' 3" mobster. hand size has little to do with you pinch width. it's basically determined by the space between your thumb base and the crease of your index finger(as taught by david horne)and thumb anatomy. if you look at the brothers in grip blog odin has posted a couple of thoughts and experiments on testing his pinch width. you might want to sit down with a notepad and test, test, and test some more.

[Autolupus]

This is interesting as I've just finished a good pinch sesh on my apparatus, which is 60mm. I wanted a piece at 50mm but 60mm was all I could source for free.

I am surprised that your pinch is as low as it is though Ben, given that you're as strong as you are in other hand strength disciplines.

[IROC-Z]

Ben,

I was very surprised to find out that my Mouse Pinch is a bit more difficult than a regular Euro. I think you should just ditch the 35's setup and continue to lift on the Mouse. I never use any tilt at all when I lift on it, and I also made a shorter loading pin to try to get closer to the right height of the Euro (I think the pin I'm using is around 10"). I might have a couple extra shorter pins sitting around.........if you want, I can send you one.

Congrats on the 207!!!!!!!

[Autolupus]

Ben,

I was very surprised to find out that my Mouse Pinch is a bit more difficult than a regular Euro. I think you should just ditch the 35's setup and continue to lift on the Mouse. I never use any tilt at all when I lift on it, and I also made a shorter loading pin to try to get closer to the right height of the Euro (I think the pin I'm using is around 10"). I might have a couple extra shorter pins sitting around.........if you want, I can send you one.

Congrats on the 207!!!!!!!

You don't necessarily need a shorter pin, you can just lift from blocks to give you the desired height.

[climber511]

If the goal is to improve on a "Euro" pinch setup - then it looks like you need to get your hands on a true replica to train on. I've experimented pretty extensively on myself and have helped a few others. It's such a technical lift for something that seems so simple to look at. The secret is to find the best way to take advantage of all your individual anatomical strengths and minimize the weaknesses. The only physical change possible is changing the width - all other variables will be done by the human body. Finding the best width "for you" can be a long process as things change as you work on the lift - what is best for you today may not be later on as your methodology of applying force changes. As David Horne told be right after he invented the Euro - the best way is to use a notebook and record every single lift you do and the things you are trying each lift. One of the biggest things one must learn is to apply "irradiation" techniques to the process. That is tightening of the whole organism but most especially of the lats. What happens when you tighten the lats is that a more advantageous position is given to the pinky and ring fingers (the weak link) while not limiting that force to the "twisting" action of the forearm like I thought was proper earlier on. I would suggest you get a Euro Replica and work with it as all other set ups have limitations as you work close to your limit.

[rico300zx]

See edited post

Edited December 24, 2010 by rico300zx

[rico300zx]

Brent,

Yes, your correct,i did mention that the palm size is the determining factor, the measurement you gave really zeros in on what I was trying to say. And no I dont think that height has anything to do with it.

Parris

Edit : the prob I see is that everyone is training on a width that they are not competing with, why, is it access to the device? Look in my gallery at my trainer it was easy to make.

[bencrush]

Thanks for all the recommendations guys! Buying a Euro isn't in the cards for a while. But it needs to be - that is becoming clear to me.

[Jeff Parker]

Very interesting results Ben.

My opinion would be that the thicker width of the 2-35's setup is what is making the difference.

Remember, your goal was to gain on the mouse pinch and that is what you did! 20lbs in a month is no joke, congrats.