Roark Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Mikael, Are you implying that if the grippers cost substantially more money, then accuracy could be obtained? I suspect. though I certainly do not know, that if the grippers cost $100 more (for better manufacturing controls), the variations would still be present. Why did PDA abandon the whole matter? Was it because a product could not be manufactured in a cost effective manner, or because a consistent-strength product could not be manufactured at all? Have prototypes been produced that are in fact consistent, and if so, what would the cost of such an item be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 (edited) I think we're all on the same page more than we realise. Perhaps it is true that grippers can't be consistently manufacured to meet a specific closure rating, regardless of cost. But if the retailer was willing to test those grippers which are advertised to be a particular poundage, and then sell only those which are in the "ballpark", could the problem not be solved? Said retailer wouldn't even have to discard those which don't make the cut. These could be sold as "NC3's" (non-certifiable #3's). Who knows, only perhaps one out of every ten manufactured would make the grade, but a cost increase for the "C3's" of a reasonable amount should recoup, for the retailer, the cost of testing the grippers. Anyone serious about certifying would be willing to pay the additional $. The one problem that I see already though is the petential for a huge over stock of #3's that didn't make the cut, IF a ratio near 1/10 turns out to be in the ballpark. Edited February 17, 2003 by eric milfeld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Makes sense ! Moreover I have some problems with the "PDA tried and failed" rhetoric : why should this mean that it can't be achieved ? For example, i tried to close the #3 today and failed but it doesn't mean that my #3 can't be closed (i'm afraid) PDA explored one direction with their press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnimalCage Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 amaury, Please don't be so quick to judge PDA's efforts. John Szimanski and team spent enormous amounts of time and effort analyzing, testing, and manufacturing grippers that were suposed to be more accurate. What we saw with the resulting IP ratings was only one public, popular, and easily conveyable method of judging grippers. Their testing went far beyond that one direction, and their results were more than rhetoric. Moreover, they did what they did because we in the grip world were clamoring for a better way. They went above and beyond in their desire to unlock the mysteries of the gripper. Maybe it's not that PDA "failed". Maybe they succeeded in proving that a $20.00 gripper can only be so good. In my opinion. their efforts deserve applause, not derision. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomricci Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Is it possible that the spring type used in a gripper is not able to be manufactured with the type of cost effective methods that a coil spring is? If you look at for example, a car engine, the valvetrain is made up of coil springs. These type of springs need to be very precise at all levels of compression, they need to undergo millions of cycles and they need to be made inexpensively. Would it be feasible to change the design of a gripper so that an easily and consistenly calibrated spring could be used? There are also hundreds of different spring ratings available but I'm going to guess at this point it would cost more money to manufacture the handles but you would only need one set since you could easily replace the spring for a higher level of resistance. I know that auto machine shops have spring testers that are rated all the way to 1000 psi but it would require some fabrication to get a gripper steady in this machine. Any machinists out there willing to give it a go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 The probem is the cost. At $20 grippers are cheap. A gripper only consists of a spring and a pair of handles. Making the handles the same length. and setting the spring at a consistent depth should be easy. It has to be that even spring wire of the same thickness, and wound the same way still produces grippers that vary a great deal. Higher quality wire would cost more. There is no excuse for setting the spring to deep or shallow into the handles. Quality control and the skill of the people who make and assemble the grippers is poor. As for criticizing PDA, you do not bite the hand that feeds you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 (edited) There is no excuse for setting the spring to deep or shallow into the handles. Very valid point. Edited February 17, 2003 by eric milfeld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I recently had the chance to evaluate a fellow GripBoard members' grippers. The worst of the bunch was a PDA. I thought it about the same as my #1 (no, I'm not kidding). The best was a IM #3 that he told me he got about a year ago; it was a tough #3 and I told him so. Really, to find that diamond in the rough... you might want to get about 10 #3's from IronMind. This might be cost prohibitive for some, but you'll get to try out and find out grippers to your liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Youngguy Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Near impossible to get a 15$ spring and a 3$ handle to be so accurate. For that price you could at least make a gripper that works. To make a top notch spring that is 90% accurate you have to be a very skilled and a knowledgeable mechanic, because it takes an exact science for such precision. Oh, and alot of money as well. Yea, at least you could set the spring rite, and all other position aspects. They should at least set the spring at a standard position man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Harlan Jacobs Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I feel , that for the money, Grippers are a great training tool. Hard or easy,wide or narrow they still are good value . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I think the problem comes when you try to apply black and white to things that are shades of grey - as has been said, for the money, the grippers just are not going to be that accurate. Having said that, though, for $20 (and they cost the equivalent of around $45 here in the UK) you would think they could be a lot more accurate. It's strange - much of Ironmind and PDA's equipment is top notch but there grippers are, in terms of consistent quality, relatively poor. Perhaps, as consumers, it is up to us to make sure we get our money's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Harlan Jacobs Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I have to agree with you "Mac". If I had to pay $45.00 for them, I may feel different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don of tha new grip Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Valid point as well on the point that MAC made. but understand Ironmind is in the business of making money. as more,and more people are finding about the product my guess it is more of a "mass produced product" and you can't expect it all to be top notch quality it just ain't gonna happen. and if there was to be a quality control on them we might see the same thing as what happened to the PDA grippers and that's disappear. And this discussion just proves the crap the PDA people had to deal with. ----------------------------- If you're going through hell keep going. Winston Churchill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Of course Ironmind are there to make money - however, I believe that they could make more money if they could improve the quality of their gripper products (which, as I have said, is strange - most of their other products are extremely well made...) Whilst I like the idea of grippers being of many different levels, just how hard can it be to manafacture a product that is very close to being consistent? I remember many years ago watching a science program on ring pulls - how they are all very closely calibrated (you should be able to open one without tearing a nail, as I recall) - and how many of the are manafactued across the world each year and at what cost? Very little per item. Whilst that program may well have been inaccuarate (it was on the BBC after all), how much should you have to pay for a spring and two pieces of aluminium? Previous posts have mentioned paying close to $100 dollars for consistent grippers - you can buy mechanical tools for less than that, and they have batteries and moving parts etc. Oh well, I'll stop before I start repeating other points now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 As has been mentioned before, in the old days there used to be tee-shirts indicating 300 pound bench press club, 400 pound etc. If you were ethical and wore a 300 shirt, it meant that you could bench at least 300 but not yet 400. Grippers are similar. The number designates a range, although unlike weighing barbell plates, the range seems more vague because more factors must be considered even if not understood. Theoretically, you could have 100 men each wearing a 300 shirt with each man of different one pound jumps. (300, then 301 thru 399). That is why grippers have no interest to me- unless several people try the SAME gripper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Look at it this way, when you are lifting in the gym, there can be a few pound difference in each 45 pound plate. That can add up with anyone using 315 . If you want calibrated plates, you must pay more. Quite a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Bob, Isn't the difference that well calibrated, accurate plates are available, but such grippers are not. Frankly, I would pay more for a meaningfully calibrated gripper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I think the nearest we shall ever come to the perfect,most accurate gripper is the hand dynanometer. Would people be prepared to pay the price of 100 dollars or more a perfect gripper!!! Mikael Siversson was right when he said that it would be boring if all the grippers were the same!!! If people just want to measure there crushing strength,i think the best way is to get a very accourite hand dynanometer,like the one that Robert Baraban Makes,and pin it to a table but so that the handle can be adjusted for the different length of hand,so we all have the same gap to squeeze,then each person has a couple of attemps each go, and they are recorded!!! This was an indication of Apollons hand strength alone,as he squeezed more than anyone ,before or after!!!(diferent hand dyno used tho) Would this be a good idea to implement at the OHF and other Dinner/meets etc,i would be willing to take my Hand Dynanometer along to the OHF as well as send it to someone like joe Roark to make use of,i could also send it to Mikael,s and nicks comps,so that we could build a data base,. What do ya all think!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I like it. We could start our own list, here on the board (Dukes of Dynamometer), based on registering some magic number on the device. Yeehh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gripster Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I say just squeeze the ones you have and the ones or one you can't close even harder. Without starting a poll in a new thread I'll ask the question here. Why do most of you squeeze grippers? For handshake strength maybe? Or for a test of your grip. I think for handshake strength you need more open hand grip strength. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I have posted this before. If Ironmind made a very accurate gripper, then most of us would only ever buy one of each. As it stands many are buying several hoping to get one easier or harder than the one they have. This being the case, Ironmind sells more grippers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Gripster, I chose to train grippers to increase my deadlifting grip ability, not that I was ever in jeopardy of losing a dead due to grip, but just to develop an extra confidence boost. Shortly after starting my training, my focus shifted to closing the #3 and certifying, for the simple thrill of accomplishment. I've never been one to try and crush another's hand while shaking,in fact, I find it a bit rude when a guy grabs the end of my fingers and squeezes for all he's worth. Geez, why not just say "nice to meet you and how much can YOU benchpress"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Roark, Before PDA quit the SOS, they sent Rick Walker and I a gripper each with their "new" measuring system. Mine seemed spot on, compared to the 485 IP SOS I got which wasn't that tough. Too bad they quit making them, I would have bought more. The one they sent me was a "190", with my three being "145" and my four "270" (or thereabouts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.