Guest Bullitt Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I haven't squatted deep in a long time (10 years). Once my lower back started acting up back in the day, I just gave them up. Had the back surgeries 2 years ago and things are much better now. Had no way to do back squats other than stradling the bench I have and unracking from the hole off the top pins - but couldn't even get to parallel with those. I still did them. Well to make a long story short, Jedd gave me some squat stands and i was very excited to start going deep again. Used to be able to do decently deep form with 300 back in the day. Well, I can't go deep at all now. All my attempts sucked. Even with 135, I was having trouble getting to parallel. Worked up to 185 and things got bad. I'm pretty sure my hip, lower back, and ankle flexibility are killing me, but maybe I am doing something wrong form wise. Whenever I try to go past parallel i can feel my lower back start to round and I start leaning over too far forward. I got a lot of great help when I asked for DL form help, so I'm hoping you guys can help me here. I want to squat heavy and i want to go deep. Was able to go much deeper on my zerchers. Here is a video of a set of back squats I did, followed by a set of Zerchers. Brutal honesty is welcome and requested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Two things shoot out at me right away. 1. Your hip flexors and adductors seem to be too tight, pulling your knees in. You need to really warm those things up - get some serious blood in there. Don't even squat with an empty bar until you are thoroughly loose. Warm-up with mobility stuff like the video that Smitty put up on the Diesel site last week. Then when you squat try pointing the toes out a bit more and make sure your knees follow the same path as your toes. 2. Second, and this one is even more important, the first movement on the downward portion of the squat needs to be ass - back. What I am saying is your ass has to move back wards to lead you down wards. Break your hips backwards while keeping your torso up. Do not initiate the downward movement by just dropping your ass down. This makes the knees go well beyond the toes and causes you to eventually round your back. Ass back, back, back back, and then move downwards. Other things. 1. Squeeze the bar with your hands as hard as you can. 2. Tense up your entire torso and make a cradle for the bar to sit on. 3. Try to point the elbows downward to keep your torso and chest proud. 4. Before lifting the bar off, take in a deep breathe. lift the bar off, take your steps back, and then re-breathe through your nose. You can always take in more air into your lungs through your nose even after taking a huge breathe through your nose. Hope this helps. For more info, check out our posts: How to Squat - 3 Quick Fixes for the Squat Hope this all helps. -Jedd- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEETOP Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 You could also try progressively lower box squats - say starting slightly above parallel and decreasing the height of the box every few weeks until you are parallel or deeper. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 There's not much I can add to Jedd's advice. Just make sure you have good hamstring and lower back flexibility, as well. It also helps me to think about the bulk of the weight being directed to the heels of my feet, and not my toes. Of course bad form will transition the weight to your toes. NEETOP, that avatar of yours has me in fits! Is that real, or from a movie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidenfan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 The biggest thing that helped me was really working hip, ankle and hamstring flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Those Zerchers weren't bad at all! -Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdawg Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Work on your flexibility and mobility. Also, try to find the Dan John Google video where he teaches the squat. Practice the goblet squats and learn to squat between your legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Crusher Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 If back squatting is not for you, then don't so it. It may not be right for your build. Try belt squats instead and I think you may be surprised at how such a small amount of weight will yield great results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thanks for the help everyone. I really appreciate it. It is amazing how much a body changes between 30 and 42. What was once flexible, is now stiff as a board. Apparently squatting is not like riding a bicycle. I just figured i could step right up to the bar and knock out 20 rep deep squats like the old days. Really pissed me off when the body wouldn't do what the mind was telling it to do. I will take all your advise and really work on this. Thanks again. Rex, yea, it was weird. I was able to go much deeper on the Zerchers. I guess it's because the load is further forward and I felt more comfortable sitting back. That, or I'm just retarded. Both are equally solid possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thanks for the help everyone. I really appreciate it. It is amazing how much a body changes between 30 and 42. What was once flexible, is now stiff as a board. Apparently squatting is not like riding a bicycle. I just figured i could step right up to the bar and knock out 20 rep deep squats like the old days. Really pissed me off when the body wouldn't do what the mind was telling it to do. I will take all your advise and really work on this. Thanks again. Rex, yea, it was weird. I was able to go much deeper on the Zerchers. I guess it's because the load is further forward and I felt more comfortable sitting back. That, or I'm just retarded. Both are equally solid possibilities. You think it changed from 30 to 42 - well hold on to your hat my friend - the ride is just beginning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Thanks for the help everyone. I really appreciate it. It is amazing how much a body changes between 30 and 42. What was once flexible, is now stiff as a board. Apparently squatting is not like riding a bicycle. I just figured i could step right up to the bar and knock out 20 rep deep squats like the old days. Really pissed me off when the body wouldn't do what the mind was telling it to do. I will take all your advise and really work on this. Thanks again. Rex, yea, it was weird. I was able to go much deeper on the Zerchers. I guess it's because the load is further forward and I felt more comfortable sitting back. That, or I'm just retarded. Both are equally solid possibilities. You think it changed from 30 to 42 - well hold on to your hat my friend - the ride is just beginning! Um... can we stop the ride? I'd like to get off. By the way, I'm feeling the squats in my lower back and hip flexors today much more than my legs. Another sign that I need to work on these. Edited October 27, 2009 by Bullitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thanks for the help everyone. I really appreciate it. It is amazing how much a body changes between 30 and 42. What was once flexible, is now stiff as a board. Apparently squatting is not like riding a bicycle. I just figured i could step right up to the bar and knock out 20 rep deep squats like the old days. Really pissed me off when the body wouldn't do what the mind was telling it to do. I will take all your advise and really work on this. Thanks again. Rex, yea, it was weird. I was able to go much deeper on the Zerchers. I guess it's because the load is further forward and I felt more comfortable sitting back. That, or I'm just retarded. Both are equally solid possibilities. You think it changed from 30 to 42 - well hold on to your hat my friend - the ride is just beginning! Um... can we stop the ride? I'd like to get off. By the way, I'm feeling the squats in my lower back and hip flexors today much more than my legs. Another sign that I need to work on these. Mike - everyone simply isn't put together with the right levers etc to be a natural squatter - and some people will never be able to do a classic upright ass to grass back squat that does NOT hit your lower back in any kind of bad way. The trick is to find what works for you - what hits the muscles you want to target safely. It took me many years to find what works for me - and back squats are not anywhere in my program anymore except for the occasional wide stance sit back box squat session. I do whatever it takes to not put myself into a good morning squat position - like you - I have been the back injury route - and I hope to never go back. Front squats, hip belt, split squats, step ups - the list is endless of alternatives to the classic back squat if it creates health issues for you - unless the goal is something that "requires" it - look around for alternatives that might work better for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoC#3 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Mike try oly shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I think somebody mentioned this already but box squats might help with sitting back more. You could try setting the box height just above the depth that your back starts to round at and gradually work the box height back down. Technique-wise I would say try keeping your elbows forward and your chest up. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAN PRAYDIS Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 i watched the video you cant squat on carpet like that to soft you have the power and you are having trouble balancing get a sheet of 1/2 inch plywood and try it and i can squat 100lb more wearing work boots not tennis shoes good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Mike try oly shoes. A little heel might help you stay upright, that could be as simple as switching to boots that have a little more heel. If you've been away from squatting for a while you've got to give yourself some time to get back into it. I would do light/deep squats 3x a week along with other flexibility work until you feel reasonably comfortable doing them. After a few weeks then decide if you want to do the sitting back style or the more straight down olympic style of squatting, or you could work both. I'm with Dan on the plywood too. It would make a huge difference to me to have a more designated area set aside for lifting, preferably someplace dank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks guys. I have been going light and using a shoe with a bit of a heel. Also been warming up and then stretching before hand, as well as doing some goblet squats before I move to the back squat. Things are getting better, slowly but surely. The first time I did these, I wasn't able to do 135 without bending way over. Saturday I was able to do 2 sets of 8 with 155# with decent form. Still sissy weights, but like many have suggested, I need to get my form dialed in before I go heavy. The last thing I need is to hurt my back again. I appreciate all the help and advice. I'll grab some plywould next time I get a chance and give these a run in my work boots. On days when it is warm, I can also haul the stands and weights out on to my deck to get a more stable surface. I'm on a deload week, resting up my CNS for my MM2 attempt Sunday, then I plan on hitting these, deads and BP hard until the end of the year. Thanks again everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanB Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks guys. I have been going light and using a shoe with a bit of a heel. Also been warming up and then stretching before hand, as well as doing some goblet squats before I move to the back squat. Things are getting better, slowly but surely. The first time I did these, I wasn't able to do 135 without bending way over. Saturday I was able to do 2 sets of 8 with 155# with decent form. Still sissy weights, but like many have suggested, I need to get my form dialed in before I go heavy. The last thing I need is to hurt my back again. I appreciate all the help and advice. I'll grab some plywould next time I get a chance and give these a run in my work boots. On days when it is warm, I can also haul the stands and weights out on to my deck to get a more stable surface. I'm on a deload week, resting up my CNS for my MM2 attempt Sunday, then I plan on hitting these, deads and BP hard until the end of the year. Thanks again everyone. goblet squats? Educate me please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djukac Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Yeah, I also had the same problem with the back squats.I found out that the problem was my flexibility and worked on that.I now do them deep .It took some time to learn the technique cause I'm only a beginner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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