HAMMERHEAD Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 I was taking a stroll down grip gallery and I noticed Samuelsson lifted the Inch without his thumb. To clarify, his thumb is on the same side of the handle as his other fingers. (it's in the Sorin gallery) Here's the question. Of those who lift this beast or train for it, what type of grip do you use? Would the thumbless grip be more advanced? I think it would be harder but I don't have a lot of experience with this. -HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 harder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Yes, thumbless is harder, just as non-hooked is harder than hooked. In thumbless, there is NO counterforce against the rotation, so your fingers must remain in their 'cupped' position UNDER the bar, and all 172 lbs are trying to roll free and straightened your fingers. If you have not been training heavy wrist curls, there is no point in even trying thumbless with the Inch unless your hands are of extreme length. Experiment with a standard size bar- you'ff be able to lift more with the thumb than without it. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Not Shure but i think David Horne has lifted it thumbless with both hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Again, how are we using the word 'lift'; deadlift? Or simply off the floor a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 The size of the hand is obviously key. He's probably got a big hand to be able to go thumbless? I am pumped as a goal to lift it (not necessarily deadlift it) because I don't believe there are too many 5'9 192lb guys who have lifted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Wanna I think David broke his thumb so switched to thumbless lifting for a long time,having the superior wrist strength that he has probably helped a lot as well,i,m shure he only has average sze hands. Roark i think David has lifted the inch rep recently thumbless to the waist. David perhaps you can enlighten us,please give me an ear bashing if i am wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Gazza, the funny thing is everyone on this board seems to have "average size" hands. One exception is Jim who I think has started his hands are bigger, etc. Most 6' and over do not have "average size" hands. Average for whom!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 sorry guys,meant to say average size hands in relation to Jim and oldguy etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimwylie1 Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Dave does lift thick dumbbells in the thumbless style. All the lifts he's done on the inch bells have been performed in this style. We were doing some lifts on the rolling thunder last sunday and both got to about the same weight using the thumb over style. As soon as Dave reverted to his prefered thumbless style he ripped up the stack with an additional 5kg. He has got very strong wrists and this could have something to do with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikael Siversson Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 This is the reason why we don't allow the thumbless style in the RT in the LGC comp., as we want to test pure grip strength rather than grip strength a lot of wrist strength in this lift. A strong wrist will still help but not as much as with the thumbless style. Pure wrist strength will be put to test in our super strict version (at least one nuckle has to be firmly against the table until the curl command is given) of the one hand TTWC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikael Siversson Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Should read; ...as we want to test pure grip strength rather than grip strength PLUS a lot of wrist strength in this lift.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I am against thumbless lifts in the same way I am against lifting an Inch style backend up first. I try to keep things purely grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 I do understand the points being made about the thumbless grip; however, for some it is more difficult to lift this way. The wrist plays a major part in our grip. Many feats of grip strength require strong wrists: plate curls, levers, any bending, even thick bar lifts using the thumb. I would not think any less of a lift regardless if the thumb was used. Where is it stated that you have to use your thumb on a bar? -HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikael Siversson Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I lift less with a thumbless style than with thumb over style. Rather than having a go at David and Steve at the slighest opportunity one could perhaps recognise David for his outstanding wrist strength. Unlike most of the guys here, he is strong at everything grip related. No weak areas whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I am not having a go at anyone. I merely stated that I do not like the thumbless style. This is the gripboard. Using the thumbless style on a thickbar is using your hand and wrist like a hook and scooping the weight up rather than squeezing the bar with your fingers and thumb. People are free to lift a weight in anyway they choose. I am just as free to criticise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 I do understand the points being made about the thumbless grip; however, for some it is more difficult to lift this way. The wrist plays a major part in our grip. Many feats of grip strength require strong wrists: plate curls, levers, any bending, even thick bar lifts using the thumb. I would not think any less of a lift regardless if the thumb was used. Where is it stated that you have to use your thumb on a bar? -HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 No offence taken. Thumbless is, it has been said, far more dangerous even if you have a strong wrist as the thumb will act as a safety stop. I do disagree (I would though ha ha) that thumbless isn't about grip. Its 80% the same and therefore 20% less. You do still have to squeeze damned hard with the fingers and I suspect (pictures proving otherwise Jim) that unless dave scoops it, as Oldguy suggest and is entirely possible with DH's wrists, that anyone else I have seen try the bent/turned wrist style has been defeated. If it was possible then I would agree that it is way less about grip strength. Proof is as always in the pudding. I would get way, way less with my wrist turned and in a thumbless style. Tilted: hmm does tilted mean less grip - I'll know the answer real soon. I do know that I have to squeeze damned hard tilted or otherwise just to get the bell moving - either my plate loaded bell or the MDB. Do I need to squueze harder still to lift it heavier and or level - not sure. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 In the bench press: who is gripping the bar- the man using a thumbless grip, or the man surrounding the bar with his hand? OldGuy was simply expressing his view, not targeting anyone else. David has incredible wrist strength; anyone here not aware of that needs medical attention. But whether it is David or Heath or Wannagrip of me or anybody else, it appears the complete definition of gripping an object should involve the thumb. Frankly, it is more impressive to me to see the Inch 'scooped' without the thumb, but we are talking semantics here, I guess. Just an opinion. I wrist my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I am not just theorizing. I have tried thumbless, as has my son, and both of us can lift more on the R T handle and the Inch loadable, compared to regular grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted January 3, 2003 Author Share Posted January 3, 2003 Old Guy, it seems you have with very strong wrists. Mobsterone, who is right now the only guy to break the MDB off the ground, thinks its harder thumbless. Roark, great post. "it appears the complete definition of gripping an object should involve the thumb." This is interesting. How about grippers? Even Brookfield feels that grippers neglect the thumbs. Mabey they aren't a "complete" test of grip. They are a great test though. Thick bars are not a complete test of ones grip either. Grip is dynamic, including crushing, pinching, supporting, wrist, fingers, endurance and power. -HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I say also that thumbless is harder on the wrists. I have relatively weak thumbs but very strong wrists. This means thumbless I can hoist more weight. For many years I did very heavy sheet metal work and at the same time was a heavy machinery mechanic, so I worked my hands forearms and wrists 12 hours a day. Inspite of having large hands and many years or training behind me, I am not even close to being in the same league as David Horne, Mobsterone, Heath, Terminator or McKinless to name a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 After the 2002 Iron Grip comp DH said to me that I would 'need to work on wrist flexation'. This, indirectly, gives weight to the arguement that even the MDB couild be scooped. The fact that I haven't doesn't mean it wont be done thus. Re the thumb involved. So far no one grip lift has all of us in agreement as the perfect test of grip strength and so while involving the thumb would make such a movement good it doesn't exist. Ask anyone that studies both human and primate physiology - the thumb is less about about grip and more about (50/50) stabilizing and providing opposing force ie: when you grip and the object you grip moves or has force - possibly an inch bell trying to roll away - the thumb 'opposes' that force. That said the KTA program touches on the thumb pad and its uses in the grippers but not (I haven't finished reading it yet) I think a means by which the thumb actually helps pull the gripper shut. Joe re the BP: doesn't matter the man that wins is the man who pushes the most. On the flip side I have shown several people how gripping the bar harder will add a small percentage to the effort that they can extend and will, therefore, bench more reps or more weight (no more than 5% more). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Steve, I know the greatest poundage wins in a bench contest; my point was whether the same lifter could elevate more using or not using the thumb- not comparing different lifters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CalvinP Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Thumbless lift puts your hand in a position like an arm wrestling match, that is why pro arm wrestler can really scoop up a lot of weight with fat bar db. That is what they do really, pulling a lot of resistant, a lot more than 172 lbs I assume, I still haven't got a chance to go to Gary's home and entice him go to the max on this kind of scoop lift, since he can resist the pull from Cleeve Dean, I wonder how much can he scoop lift. Come to think of it I wonder how much can John Brzenk do it Any how I will keep you guys up to date once I get to Gary's home, soon I hope! Don't you think the hand of another human is a lot thicker than a fat bar db Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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