andurniat Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 The dynamic training method has been given great thought by powerlifters through there use of bands, chains and boxes with speed being a driving component. Same with olympic lifting and there first integration of plyometrics (depth jumps) to shock load the body into superior adaptation. I have noticed great gains in my thick bar performance due to clean grip high pulls on my axle and catching the bar after the high pull. Same thing with doing blob tosses and catches, I believe Wade has advocated these for pinch strength in the past/present as well. I'm not sure where this post will go, but I know myself and climber511 have had many discussions on this 'dynamic method' phenomenon and I wanted to get others insight on the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 High pulling a blob is the best way to train it. Once you have mastered deadlifting it, you still dont have the strength to high pull it or clean and press it. Working the high pull and clean and press makes a blob of the same weight a better training tool. It allows you to keep getting stronger, even with the same blob. -Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbe705 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I made the best gains on my 2hp when I was doing a lot of block weight drop passes and around the worlds. I was also getting some pinch training almost every day so, I'm not sure which to attribute it to. I did feel that the dynamic work made a difference though. I've been thinking about this myself lately and wondering how to apply it to more aspect of my training. along those lines I was also wondering if anyone applied a wave type loading to grip training? what were the results? Andrew, when we discussed the highpulls on axle you suggested about 50% of ORM weight. do you think that would be best for things like block weight passes as well? I think that the changing diameter of the block would necessitate a higher % of max effort. or, a loadable weight of constant size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madknight Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 What do you think of high pulling plates (pinching of course)? I'm wondering what I should do to try and get to 2 35's with one hand and maybe working up to high pulling 2 25's is a good idea. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andurniat Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Andrew, when we discussed the highpulls on axle you suggested about 50% of ORM weight. do you think that would be best for things like block weight passes as well? I think that the changing diameter of the block would necessitate a higher % of max effort. or, a loadable weight of constant size. I think the carryover is very much width dependent, but I also think the benefit gained with a smaller width is great enough to overcome some of this deficiency. I know I do most of my blob training with an 80 and 90 hex weight. I'm sure the greatest differences in strength would be at the extremes. For pinch this would be either very narrow or at the individuals limits of stretch (hand size dependent). I've used this method with hub lifts, hub toss a 25# hampton plate, not sure if i have tried a 35#, but it sure makes a 45# from the floor seem easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Didn't do high pulls last night, because I hurt something in my upper abs deadlifting, so instead I did bent over axle rows explosively. Obviously the high pulls are a more explosive move with a larger range of motion, but those rows with 180 on the axle really taxed my grip in a way that deadlifts haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Juggling thick DBs is a killer. I also like rowing the blob (or 5-10s). I find it's harder than just high-pulling it because of the stop at the bottom that you've got to resist. I've also found doing 1hp drop-passes with slightly more than you can handle with one hand (using both hands to get it up) kills your thumbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Anderw, I think I remember you telling me and some others that you break the axle off the ground "with control", i.e. not as fast as possible, like if you were doing a regular barbell deadlift. I think you said this is because you bend your wrists at the beginning of the pull. The wrists will eventually straighten out, but during the time that they are bent, it's best to not move the weight as fast as possible or else the wrists will straighten out immediately. How does this fit with the utility of the dynamic training? -Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Andrew, Dave Thorton, Zach, and I had a nice discussion of training methods in the van going to and from Jedd's contest - a lot of interesting things tossed around - this is one of the good sides to long drives to competitions. Both dynamic concentrics and Dynamic eccentrics were discussed. One caution is to have a good base of strength development built up before using these. The other is to start light and gradually build it up, but never really heavy - if you read the old Russian stuff - it's about the speed, more than the resistance. Something I have long believed is that one should milk all the gains possible out of each phase of training, spending the vast majority of ones training on the basics, not the fancy - if you use all the advanced tricks early on - what's left when you plateau? There's a lot more going on here than meets the eye and most of this has been studied in depth over the years in other aspects of weight training - a through reading of the Russian works can offer a much better understanding of things like yielding and reversal strengths etc. Andrew's Axle high pulls, Blob tosses ala Brookfield, Jedds's handle idea for his core blaster (similar to KB swings) - people are finding ways to bring it into grip strength training and I think it's going to prove to be a great tool for advanced guys to be using in moderation. It should make up no more than just a few percent of your training. More is not more – less is more. Types of muscle contraction Static – Isometric Dynamic – Quasi – Isometric Auxotonic Isotonic Isokenetic Isoinertial Food for thought – do you know what these are? Might it help your training if you did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andurniat Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Anderw, I think I remember you telling me and some others that you break the axle off the ground "with control", i.e. not as fast as possible, like if you were doing a regular barbell deadlift. I think you said this is because you bend your wrists at the beginning of the pull. The wrists will eventually straighten out, but during the time that they are bent, it's best to not move the weight as fast as possible or else the wrists will straighten out immediately. How does this fit with the utility of the dynamic training? -Rex Rex, The smooth pull does keep the movement from putting too much stress on the grip and wrist. I remember our conversation about wrist flexion and I have concluded that I was trying to over-complicate what is a rather simple motion. I'm sure it has some merit, but when I started training that way my numbers didn't improve as much as when I wasn't thinking about my wrist and I was performing high pulls. I believe it is the dynamic eccentric motion that really boosts my thick bar strength. Similar emphasis is used by speed and agility coaches, to be faster learn to stop faster, the dynamic eccentric motion is the key to speed on the playing field. I think the same thinking and methods can be applied to grip training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Fascinating discussion here, thanks to all who're adding their knowledge to the pot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg_uk Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I know Jedd uses bands and chains, ala Mr Spongy, and i have seen some Finnish members use it as well, . but has anyone had great benefits from this sort of training, it looks interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) So based on what Andrew and others saying, the idea is to decelerate the object as fast as possible, either just coming to a stop (like how Andrew stops the axle as it is falling) or coming to a stop and accelerating the other way (a blob row, a kettlebell swing). Has anyone ever created a pinch block with weight attached to the bottom, designed for swings? I'm thinking of something for one-hand use, allowing for motion identical to a regular one handed kettlebell swing. Andrew says he built his thick bar strength with thick handled kettlebells; the motion involved there requires decelerating a moving object. I'm wondering if something similar could be done with pinch, which would be an alternative to the simple static pinch block lifting, e.g. blob deadlifting. I'm thinking somthing a bit more solid than merely a pinch block attached to a loading pin. Also, what about over-the-head backwards tosses with a block weight? -Rex Edited October 1, 2009 by The Natural Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 So based on what Andrew and others saying, the idea is to decelerate the object as fast as possible, either just coming to a stop (like how Andrew stops the axle as it is falling) or coming to a stop and accelerating the other way (a blob row, a kettlebell swing). YES - dynamic eccentric with reversal I'm thinking of something for one-hand use, allowing for motion identical to a regular one handed kettlebell swing (Mine is for either one or two hands - 2" size). Andrew says he built his thick bar strength with thick handled kettlebells; the motion involved there requires decelerating a moving object. I'm wondering if something similar could be done with pinch, which would be an alternative to the simple static pinch block lifting, e.g. blob deadlifting. I'm thinking somthing a bit more solid than merely a pinch block attached to a loading pin. (Yes it has been done) Also, what about over-the-head backwards tosses with a block weight? Humm -Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 So based on what Andrew and others saying, the idea is to decelerate the object as fast as possible, either just coming to a stop (like how Andrew stops the axle as it is falling) or coming to a stop and accelerating the other way (a blob row, a kettlebell swing). YES - dynamic eccentric with reversal I'm thinking of something for one-hand use, allowing for motion identical to a regular one handed kettlebell swing (Mine is for either one or two hands - 2" size). Andrew says he built his thick bar strength with thick handled kettlebells; the motion involved there requires decelerating a moving object. I'm wondering if something similar could be done with pinch, which would be an alternative to the simple static pinch block lifting, e.g. blob deadlifting. I'm thinking somthing a bit more solid than merely a pinch block attached to a loading pin. (Yes it has been done) Also, what about over-the-head backwards tosses with a block weight? Humm -Rex Chris made up this 2HP trainer for me. It's 54mm thick and has a huge bolt that screws in the bottom, so it is very stable. I just got it yesterday and it's very slick right now, so until it seasons I wouldn't try any swings, but after it gets a little easier to get a good grip, I don't see any reason why you couldn't do swings on it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE4-AyyG_K0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 High pulling a blob is the best way to train it. Once you have mastered deadlifting it, you still dont have the strength to high pull it or clean and press it. Working the high pull and clean and press makes a blob of the same weight a better training tool. It allows you to keep getting stronger, even with the same blob. -Rick GOLD!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidenfan Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) I used to use bands a lot when I was working grip like a fanatic. Heres a shot on how I did mine: Plate Pinching w/Bands Edited October 3, 2009 by maidenfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg_uk Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 nice pic Morgan, i may try that tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madknight Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I used to use bands a lot when I was working grip like a fanatic. Heres a shot on how I did mine: Plate Pinching w/Bands Nice idea. Maybe I'll try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.