Uk Grip Championships 2010

[Paul Savage]

UK GRIP CHAMPIONSHIPS 2010

THE EVENTS

- THICK HANDLE GRIPPERS

- ONE HAND PINCH

- SLEDGE HAMMER LEVER

- AXLE DEADLIFT

- MEDLEY

- HANG BAR

DATE = To be announced, will be early next year (jan-march).

VENUE = Whey consortium gym in Gloucester.

NO ENTRANCE FEE's

EVENT RULES / DETAILS

THICK HANDLE GRIPPERS

Four grippers will be available, an easier HG400, a harder HG400, an easier HG500, and a harder HG500. This will be contested by repetition, with any number of reps on a harder gripper beating any number of reps on an easier gripper. You will have a 45 second time slot for each hand. The results of each hand will be added together for a total. The 20mm block rule will be in effect. Any setting style will be allowed.

ONE HAND PINCH

This is will be contested gripping two 10kg plates with a bar through to add weights, the lifter will have 3 attempts with each hand, the best lift from each hand will be added together for a total. The competitor must lift the weight up until it touches a bar 16.5" high, then maintain the grip whilst puting it down. Rising bar will be in effect for this event. Exact width measurement will follow.

SLEDGE HAMMER LEVER

This will be a free standing overhead lever to the face/forehead (arm straight out infront). A number of different weights will be available (upto 10.1kg), again with one rep on a heavier weight beating any number of reps on a lighter weight. Strict judging will be in effect here, some arm movement will be allowed but excessive movement of the arm will result in a failed attempt. A part of your hand must sit over the end of the handle, not doing this will result in a failed attempt. Again 45 seconds will be allocated for each arm, with the results added together for a total. The full list of weights will be announced (you will know when i know).

AXLE DEADLIFT

This will be a maximal deadlift with 3 attempts, a 2" thick bar will be used. Only double overhand grip will be allowed, hook grip, reverse grip, or mixed grip will result in a failed attempt. Any style of deadlifting will be allowed, simply lock the weight out and keep your hands on the bar when puting it down for a good lift. A rising bar will be in effect on this event.

MEDLEY

Items:

- 15kg hub lift

- 20kg hub lift

- ironmind blue nail in ironmind wraps

- ironmind red nail in leather wraps

- three 15kg two hand pinch

- three 20kg two hand pinch

- 20kg heavy grip tools blob lift

- 25kg heavy grip tools blob lift

- 125kg 2" verticle bar

- 150kg 1" verticle bar

(the ironmind nails may not be used but something similar will)

Items must be lifted to at least waist height, with the exception of verticle bar, which will be a judged 2" lift. Any style of blob lifting, and any style of bending will be allowed. The nails must be bent to no less than 2" between the ends, this will be measured after completion.

The blue and red nail (or whatever is used), along with the two hand pinch lifts, will be 2 points each, then each item lifted with one hand is 1 point, the other hand is 1 point etc so a total of 20 points are availible. You will have a 3 minute time slot to complete the medley, you can choose to do any items in any order. Lifts will not be timed, equal points means equal placings.

HANG BAR

An olympic bar will be placed freely on top of a power rack, the competitor will grasp the bar with a regular double overhand grip, and hang on for as long as possible. When either both the competitors hands slip from the bar or one of the competitors feet touch the floor, the clock will be stoped. Only one attempt for each competitor, the longest time wins.

Strongman scoring system will be in effect, so 1st place gets one point, 2nd two points, 3rd 3 etc the competitor with the least total points through the six events is the winner.

In the event of a tie, competitors will hang from a 2" fixed bar, side by side, until only one is left hanging.

The order of competitors for the first event will be determined by a random draw, then other than the two rising bar events (pinch/axle) the overall leader will go last in each event, 2nd will be second to last, 3rd we will be 3rd to last etc In the event of a points tie, a coin toss will be used to determine the order.

[Paul Savage]

Most likely end up paying for some things myself with no entrance fee's but i want to give people every reason to show up, so wanted to announce this as soon as i could (i literally finilised event plans yesterday) an not have fee's to pay. The only possible fee would be if i was able to get the official ironmind axle, you would have to be a BHSA member to claim the british record. I have not had spare time or effort to sort anything out for this comp so far, so dont currently have any sponsors, but im 'hoping' to end up with a few.

As far as any details i can think of off the top of my head (have not got any of the equipment here), the plates used for the one hand pinch are golds gym standard plates, which are on the thin side, and i have took the paint off where you grip so should be decent numbers. All the plates in the medley are olympic body power plates, which you 'should' be able to find at a local gym. The 15's are pretty wide, the 20's are pretty thin. The hubs on both are wide, and tough, though i may just be terrible at hub pinch (the 15 is touch an go, an 20 nowhere near). If i cant get the ironmind nails, will most likely be fbbc stock instead, most likely replace the red with 1/4 square bar, not sure whats similar to blue, dont know much about bending (other than that im useless at it!). Rough ratings on the grippers used would be easier HG400 = 2.5-2.6, harder HG400 = 2.9-3.0, easier HG500 = maybe 4.2, harder HG500 = maybe 4.5 or more (a beast in other words). I would have liked to have something to bridge the gap between the harder 400 and easier 500, but my attempt to modify (lower the mount) one of my 400's actually made it easier! I was thinking of just doing vulcan instead but didnt want to go along the same lines as every other comp with regular size handles (i think the thicker handles are much better test of overall hand strength). Weights for sledges will hopefully be something like 6lb, 10lb, 14lb, 16lb, 20lb, 22lb.

Will have more details to follow, hopefully pics etc

[PERTHPOWER]

Is this a different comp to the British Grip Championships?

[gumpster]

The nails must be bent to no less than 2" between the ends

Might want to remove the "no" in that.

Looks like a great set of events! The thick grippers should be interesting. The bar hang will give those heavier guys a real challenge, and the tie breaker is cool also.

[Paul Savage]

perthpower - yes, this is not the BHSA championships, it is an entirely different contest, similar to how glenn ross puts on the uk's with a bunch of different events to the british in strongman. I came up with some event idea's for next years british after the poor turn out for this years (was still a great comp, just need more people to turn up), an steve came up with the idea of me puting on my own comp.

gumpster - i would if i could! knew there would be some kind of mistake haha was obviously meant to say no more than 2". Thanks, i wanted basic tests but with some twists to try make it more interesting. Yeah hang bar will probably not be my best event personally as i will most likely be 300lbs or so by then, but it's great visually (im hoping to get the whole comp filmed for dvd or youtube) plus it's an event that suits the smaller guys, axle deadlift for instance does not, so it's fair enough in the end. I tried to go the same way in the medley, half the items suit smaller handed guys, half are items suit bigger handed guys, also wanted to make sure to test different aspects of grip that were not covered in the contest, rather than just throwing in everything thats already been tested. The whole idea with this comp is for it to be fresh and interesting, and as fair as possible.

[mobsterone]

Glenn Ross's contest... hmm hence the confusion in strongman. Why not change the name to something like 'March Madness' or 'The Savage grip challenge' (I think that had a ring to it).

[twig]

"Savage grip challenge" Twig LIKE!

[egg_uk]

I like the Savage Grip Challenge as well

[mobsterone]

Paul probably thought of it too but it sounded selfish but I like the connotation. Same as 'Brutal bending' and so on.

[CoC#3]

Looks good Paul - i'm definitely up for it mate.

[Paul Savage]

Glenn Ross's contest... hmm hence the confusion in strongman. Why not change the name to something like 'March Madness' or 'The Savage grip challenge' (I think that had a ring to it).

Whats wrong with it being the uk's? those names dont sound like a professional contest, no value in it. You didnt say you had any problems with it being called uk's strongest hands (my first thought), you said aslong as it's not called the british whatever name is fine, just call it something else. As far as glenn ross uk strongman comp, i personally think it's a much better comp than the british, might not have as much worth to many, but a much more entertaining contest to watch for me, tests every aspect of strongman too. I thought last years was great, how they had 13 events in total an everybody was completely laid out after the final event.

Knew you would be up for it sam!

[mobsterone]

I've said why. See my comment above. To reiterate: Glenn's competition falls within the many strength competitions which while perfectly valid as a strength event and with great local support have, in the strength scene and to the public beyond Ireland, added to the confusion as to which event is the greater or more important. ANYONE with some sense of the history of the strength sports will see that this has happened on many occasions. From World Series Baseball only having three countries in in to UK and Britain's Strongest Man being somewhat confusing. I fully support having as many events as possible on the calendar - David and I were hoping to have one per month but also, as per my role in the BHSA, look at the bigger picture. That it might be in anyway confusing as to which is the primary event on the calendar needs to be considered.

Saying I had no problem with it before doesn't mean I can't change my mind. Baring in mind you'll want BHSA approval AND use of the Hopewell Street facility might I suggest that changing the name is not exactly a massive problem for you. I'll also suggest February is the best time as this will leave sufficient training time (about 12 weeks) for those wishing to participate in the British. If you have any further changes you wish to make and which might in anyway effect BHSA policy and remit forward them to me for David and I'd approval.

As an aside the Glenn Ross event has always suited Glenn Ross. Don't make me post why - it ought to be obvious.

[Paul Savage]

I've said why. See my comment above. To reiterate: Glenn's competition falls within the many strength competitions which while perfectly valid as a strength event and with great local support have, in the strength scene and to the public beyond Ireland, added to the confusion as to which event is the greater or more important. ANYONE with some sense of the history of the strength sports will see that this has happened on many occasions. From World Series Baseball only having three countries in in to UK and Britain's Strongest Man being somewhat confusing. I fully support having as many events as possible on the calendar - David and I were hoping to have one per month but also, as per my role in the BHSA, look at the bigger picture. That it might be in anyway confusing as to which is the primary event on the calendar needs to be considered.

Saying I had no problem with it before doesn't mean I can't change my mind. Baring in mind you'll want BHSA approval AND use of the Hopewell Street facility might I suggest that changing the name is not exactly a massive problem for you. I'll also suggest February is the best time as this will leave sufficient training time (about 12 weeks) for those wishing to participate in the British. If you have any further changes you wish to make and which might in anyway effect BHSA policy and remit forward them to me for David and I'd approval.

As an aside the Glenn Ross event has always suited Glenn Ross. Don't make me post why - it ought to be obvious.

I understand what your saying there but i dont think this is a bad thing for the sport, it's not saying 'this is the more important contest' thats the not the idea behind it at all. My personal opinion on the british (and euro's for that matter), is that it's not gonna take the sport anywhere with the same old, or very slightly different events each year, this can be seen by the turn out this year. I came up with an idea of some possible events for next years british to try make things more interesting an get people turning up, an you said you thought the events needed to be more standard etc and then said i should put on my own comp etc etc etc

I dont personally see any value in puting on a 'march madness' or 'savage grip challenge' (it's not about me) as that is more a gimmick thing to me, i want the 'sport' to move forward, not have some comp that may be fun but really means nothing. At the end of the day if you dont want this comp (as in uk grip championship 2010) to happen, then it wont, just say an i will call it off.

[twig]

I'd rather win and have a Savage grip, than win and have a UK National grip; it just SOUNDS better.

[Kormaz]

The Savage grip contest does sound awesome tbh Btw, is Glenn Ross into grip at all? Would be interesting to see what sort of things he could lift/close. I saw him lift once at some random strength day near me when i was younger, not sure how much he shifted (bench) but it sure got me interested in lifting lol.

[twig]

not sure how much he shifted

A LOT!

[The Mac]

UK includes Northern Ireland, which would be of some importance to Ross.

[mobsterone]

I've said why. See my comment above. To reiterate: Glenn's competition falls within the many strength competitions which while perfectly valid as a strength event and with great local support have, in the strength scene and to the public beyond Ireland, added to the confusion as to which event is the greater or more important. ANYONE with some sense of the history of the strength sports will see that this has happened on many occasions. From World Series Baseball only having three countries in in to UK and Britain's Strongest Man being somewhat confusing. I fully support having as many events as possible on the calendar - David and I were hoping to have one per month but also, as per my role in the BHSA, look at the bigger picture. That it might be in anyway confusing as to which is the primary event on the calendar needs to be considered.

Saying I had no problem with it before doesn't mean I can't change my mind. Baring in mind you'll want BHSA approval AND use of the Hopewell Street facility might I suggest that changing the name is not exactly a massive problem for you. I'll also suggest February is the best time as this will leave sufficient training time (about 12 weeks) for those wishing to participate in the British. If you have any further changes you wish to make and which might in anyway effect BHSA policy and remit forward them to me for David and I'd approval.

As an aside the Glenn Ross event has always suited Glenn Ross. Don't make me post why - it ought to be obvious.

I understand what your saying there but i dont think this is a bad thing for the sport, it's not saying 'this is the more important contest' thats the not the idea behind it at all. My personal opinion on the british (and euro's for that matter), is that it's not gonna take the sport anywhere with the same old, or very slightly different events each year, this can be seen by the turn out this year. I came up with an idea of some possible events for next years british to try make things more interesting an get people turning up, an you said you thought the events needed to be more standard etc and then said i should put on my own comp etc etc etc

I dont personally see any value in puting on a 'march madness' or 'savage grip challenge' (it's not about me) as that is more a gimmick thing to me, i want the 'sport' to move forward, not have some comp that may be fun but really means nothing. At the end of the day if you dont want this comp (as in uk grip championship 2010) to happen, then it wont, just say an i will call it off.

There's nothing I disagree with here. Just change the name. Those looking to support it love the 'Savage Grip' idea as do I and it's no more about you changing the name than me wanting a name change for reasons clearly stated. Don't be stubborn for stubborn's sake. I might argue that the British needs to be the more standard formatted event as it IS the national championships and so should represent everything the BHSA is about. Obviously I'd like more players to compete but ideally we'd have athletes, say the top 2, from other British events to want to compete in the nationals.

If you are as keen as I think you are (and was following the Brits) then in a day or two it'll be on.

I've said why. See my comment above. To reiterate: Glenn's competition falls within the many strength competitions which while perfectly valid as a strength event and with great local support have, in the strength scene and to the public beyond Ireland, added to the confusion as to which event is the greater or more important. ANYONE with some sense of the history of the strength sports will see that this has happened on many occasions. From World Series Baseball only having three countries in in to UK and Britain's Strongest Man being somewhat confusing. I fully support having as many events as possible on the calendar - David and I were hoping to have one per month but also, as per my role in the BHSA, look at the bigger picture. That it might be in anyway confusing as to which is the primary event on the calendar needs to be considered.

Saying I had no problem with it before doesn't mean I can't change my mind. Baring in mind you'll want BHSA approval AND use of the Hopewell Street facility might I suggest that changing the name is not exactly a massive problem for you. I'll also suggest February is the best time as this will leave sufficient training time (about 12 weeks) for those wishing to participate in the British. If you have any further changes you wish to make and which might in anyway effect BHSA policy and remit forward them to me for David and I'd approval.

As an aside the Glenn Ross event has always suited Glenn Ross. Don't make me post why - it ought to be obvious.

I understand what your saying there but i dont think this is a bad thing for the sport, it's not saying 'this is the more important contest' thats the not the idea behind it at all. My personal opinion on the british (and euro's for that matter), is that it's not gonna take the sport anywhere with the same old, or very slightly different events each year, this can be seen by the turn out this year. I came up with an idea of some possible events for next years british to try make things more interesting an get people turning up, an you said you thought the events needed to be more standard etc and then said i should put on my own comp etc etc etc

I dont personally see any value in puting on a 'march madness' or 'savage grip challenge' (it's not about me) as that is more a gimmick thing to me, i want the 'sport' to move forward, not have some comp that may be fun but really means nothing. At the end of the day if you dont want this comp (as in uk grip championship 2010) to happen, then it wont, just say an i will call it off.

There's nothing I disagree with here. Just change the name. Those looking to support it love the 'Savage Grip' idea as do I and it's no more about you changing the name than me wanting a name change for reasons clearly stated. Don't be stubborn for stubborn's sake. I might argue that the British needs to be the more standard formatted event as it IS the national championships and so should represent everything the BHSA is about. Obviously I'd like more players to compete but ideally we'd have athletes, say the top 2, from other British events to want to compete in the nationals.

If you are as keen as I think you are (and was following the Brits) then in a day or two it'll be on.

[CoC#3]

I like the idea of the 'SAVAGE GRIP CONTEST' aswell! That being said, I will compete in it regardless of the name of the contest - to me this is not an issue. I do think a BHSA membership should be necessary to compete - if people buy a BHSA membership at the start of the new year for your contest then the British in May will probably have more competitors aswell. The BHSA was a step forward to increase the popularity of grip in the UK - and i think running a contest outside of it won't help get the sport moving in the right direction. The events look really good to me, if there is an audience for it they won't get bored. Big lifts on the axle, the medley (bending especially) and the sledge levering will all look impressive to even an untrained crowd. With regard to not many different levels of competition grippers being used, I have 3 HG400s and 1 HG500 that could be used as competition grippers aswell the easiest of these HG400s is very old and probably no harder than a #2.

[mobsterone]

I think you meant 'will help the sport' but it's that point on which we need only to look at strongman for. One of the issues I've touched upon elsewhere and on the GB is the need NOT to make the same mistakes other Iron Game groups have made. Right back to the 1900's we have had many weightlifting (and all that this means) associations form. Once they formed the personalities sometimes conflicted as they found their feet. From the lengths of bars to the accuracy of plates and requirements thereof through to what made a clean (from Clean and Jerk). One book showed that back in 1905 there was three or even 4 different ways of doing it.

Now we have the strongman scene. With that we have three main groups. The independents, those with the previous support of the IFSA/TWI/Colin Bryce and then the UKSC (United Kingdom Strength Council). It is the UKSC under which Ross's event fell. Because strongman are, for the most part, 'just happy to compete' (their words) they moan and bitch but do little else.

In grip we have ONLY the BHSA as any real organizing and recognized body. Now there is NOTHING to stop anyone putting on a grip competition whatsoever. Be it in a back yard, a bedroom or a massive concert hall. But if those competing have half the desire I think they have then they will want to see the sport grow. Indeed this is the reason, baring in mind I was there and saw the gleeful look on Paul's face, that Paul's juices started flowing once the idea of the competition came to him. Quite simply he liked the idea. More so the non-standard events. Now, without looking, at least one of these is listed on the BHSA site (axle) and if those competing got close to the current records (200kg by Laine at the Whey Challenge event and 441 by myself at Chad's and as a BHSA member) then they need to be BHSA members.

What we don't want to do is go down the road of making ALL of the same mistakes 100+ year old fledging weightlifting and more recently formed strongman feds are making. Surely learning from their mistakes, moving the sport forward and in doing so building it's strength is a far better thing?? That clubs can pay a fee now rather than individual members means it's cheaper than before.

From my view, as BHSA sec, I'm asking for a name change which most of those competing like anyway. I'd also prefer to see any such event held under the umbrella of the BHSA. Neither of these things are too much to bare. As an aside I could tell you a story about how I got a certain Mr Ross to change the name of an event because I already had rights to it.

[Lol999]

For myself, like others, I don't care what it's called I'm going to try and turn up to compete. However, on a personal note I think I can understand where Paul is coming from on the naming front. Assuming this is his first grip contest as promoter/organiser then his innate enthusiasm will want it to be a "big" affair and that's natural enough. I made a similar approach to a snooker competition I organised in the '80's and whilst I didn't imply or use a National theme in it's title it's proposed name didn't help it's cause, or mine. I believe there should be only one "National" competition to avoid confusion and to ensure it retains it's prestige.

What I believe would be a good situation would be for ALL contests to be under the BHSA umbrella, using standardised equipment and rules. All competitors must be BHSA members. Then any records set will be ratified by the BHSA upon provision of suitable evidence such as video footage and the subscription fees would help the organisation grow. Contests could be held outside the BHSA umbrella for non-members and members alike but no records would be ratified by the BHSA.

What I DON'T want to see is a situation similar to F1 where we have a governing body that doesn't listen to it's members regarding rules and makes arbitrary changes without consultation. That would be the death knell for BHSA and the sport or lead to a fragmented situation such as in darts with the BDO and PDC.Also, certainly at the beginning I would not want to see the BHSA charge a sanctioning fee to competition organisers for the "right" to hold a competition under their conditions. As I understand it the BHSA is pretty much a voluntary thing run by Steve et al and as such time occurs as it is deemed financial compensation is in order then there is no need to raise funds other than by subscription.

Just my thoughts.

[Paul Savage]

As stated previously, regardless of if savage sounds cool or not, i dont see that as meaning anything, and it's not a step forward for the sport in my opinion, it's more of a gimmick type thing. Sorry guys, but this contest is cancelled.

[mobsterone]

If the name to you is 'not meaning anything' then why cancel it when a name change is suggested? How is changing the name preventing the event from being a step forward? Savage Grip was a suggestion - nothing more. I explained, with reasons clearly laid out, why calling the event 'the UK grip championships' was, in my opinion, a no-no. Effectively throwing the rattles out of the pram because of that and cancelling the event on that basis is not exactly a step in the right direction either.

You may recall, as will many of my US buddies last weekend, our chats on more than one occasion on what I've called 'little kingdom's'. Anyone hoping to move the sport forward needs to take the ego right out of it. If we hope for the same things, as many do, it's not about what we as persons who like to compete want for ourselves but how we can make the sport grow and evolve.

Your first step in that direction was your keenness to put the competition on at all. It can be a thankless task. For that you are to be saluted. Now, as I explained before, you also need just as keenly to be aware of the too, too many mistakes made through Iron History. From each fed having their own weight classes, others arguing over how a clean should be done to, as in this case, calling their event by a name which infers more than it is. For example - championships infers some sort of qualifying events. Our sport isn't that big that we can prohibit lifters from wishing to compete. I'm also well aware we do not currently require those at the British to qualify either - hopefully that will come. Lol999 touched upon the splits in darts and snooker which still exist - two world championships for both I think.

Merely putting on an event, no matter how informal or how much you were, on paper at least, prepared to pay out of pocket isn't the whole story on moving the sport forward. It is but a part of it. Now instead of being annoyed (and no doubt tired from work) go away and mull it over for the weekend and reconsider the name and putting the event BACK ON.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Alright, I haven't read all of this, so this may be redundant/irrelevant/etc.

Paul, do you live in Gloucester? Have it be a bit more specific perhaps? Why not have the "English Grip Championships?"

I'm the last person to argue over what something is called, but lets be honest here, "Championships" implies something. You can have a contest be both fun and help push the sport forward without it being some sort of championship. You are aware there are maybe 20 people who have EVER held a grip contest anywhere in the world? Adding yourself as one more regular promoter is of great help to the sport all by itself.

Lets hypothesize for a second. If you were to hold the "Such and such grip contest," decided to do something different than what other promoters have tried, and you end up getting a larger crowd than the British simply because of your changes, would that be another meaningless comp that was fun but didn't mean anything?

Every new contestant at a grip meet is a victory with a sport as small as this one. If you were to advertize in local gyms, over several places on the net, and generally put yourself and your competition out there, more people would come. ADVERTISMENT.

[Paul Savage]

Im not in a huff about this steve, not at all, my opinion is simply different than yours, nothing more than that, and i really dont have an ego (i dont actually know why you said that), you probably think i do from how i talk to you (trash talking etc) but thats just having a laugh, just a bit of a wind up (often to make you train harder), im never being serious.

I was not saying the name means nothing to me, it does, i was saying a name such as 'savage grip challenge' does not mean much of anything, the only way it could mean anything at all would be if i was an established competitor in the sport, multi time winner of the top level comps e.g the arnolds is a big deal, but arnie is massively well know, so it can and has worked.

I know puting on a comp like this takes a lot of effort, i had plans to try an make it the most viewed grip comp ever, because thats how i work as i person, if i do something, i do it all the way, so the way i look at it is i would be puting in all the effort trying to promote something that means next to nothing e.g if im talking in a bar to some stranger, an i say im puting on the savage grip challenege next year, they would look at me like im from another planet, if i said im puting on the uk grip championship next year, they would be asking what it's about an we would have a conversation on it. Also, i cant approach certain sponsors i was going to approach, which would make a huge difference, they are not gonna want to sponsor a comp that sounds like it will be held in a back garden. My plan with the comp was to try my best to get grip to a bigger audience, the 'savage grip challenge' does not accomplish this regardless of how many people show up, or how many people view it, because thats not giving them the sport, they would not look at it an think 'oh so this is the sport of grip' they would look at it like 'so this is some challenge thing'.

Like i went into a little in previous posts, if im honest, i just dont see the sport going anywhere (certainly very slowly if it does) with basic standard events, because they are boring as all hell to 99% of the population, even to a lot of people that do grip themselves. I see the sport going places in the US right now, because the events are a lot more fun, people show up for the comps, they have fun, an it brings more poeple into the sport. In the UK it's not like that, an it's not gonna change if the same people are puting on and choosing the events each an every year for the one big comp <just my opinion.