Big Brother

[ChrisJames]

Whilst trying to reply to my own topic, I found to my dismay that the topic had been closed and my original post had been taken off.

All I was doing was sharing a feat of strength that happened yesterday with people who I thought who would be interested. I have nothing to gain by stating that David Horne lifted 226lb on a 21/2" bar. A lovely afternoon has been tarnished by this. I am a qualified BAWLA coach for the last 15 years and I Know what I saw, but I never claimed a world record for anybody, just trying to share some inspiring news.

I do not dispute the fact that Mark Henry can close the No.3 even though there is no photogrphic evidence or Brian Schoonfeld can lift the Thomas Inch dumbell.

In future do we need photographic evidence of every lift mentioned on the board?

Yours sincerely,

Chris James.

[the swiss]

Agreed.

I didn't see the mentionned post, but my question would be:

on the old board, it seemed to me that trolls were quickly found out, so why all this censuring?

aren't we going to lose a lot of info on top of the intox?

[Bill Piche]

Oh geez, not the freedom of speech coat tail. People also seem to forget this is a web site. Not a public pulpit.

Read rule 5. It will be enforced.

There was no censoring. Read the rules.

The rules were POSTED for comments before adoption. No one said squat. And, now we have complainers about them...

[Tom Black]

I'm repeating my post again from the other thread:

Everyone seems to have missed the intent of the photo idea. I planted the seed of the rules of conduct in Wannagrip's mind. What I really wanted to stop was not the posts but the bickering that goes on afterwards. We now have even more fighting!

The rules of conduct and the photo were not to provide evidence of world record feats, but to stop the fighting. Everybody's putting too much emphasis on the "world record" and claiming a world record, that is not the point at all, its just my observation that we tend to argue about such things. If we argued about whether the sky is blue we would be deleting those posts too. Everyone could post anything they please regarding way out lifts and feats and as long as others don’t pound on them I don’t mind. I wrote in e-mail to Wannagrip that the picture idea was also protection for the poster, especially ones that didn't realize that they would be challenged so harshly. I think that’s what separates some posts from others. When someone with a long history of pictures and possibly videos makes a claim without a picture for a recent accomplishment they are met with congratulations , I don’t want that type of post to disappear, it is exactly the opposite of my intent because it shows the board at its best, congratulating and sharing the accomplishment.

Congratulations David on a "226lb on a 21/2" bar," but I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean, how was it lifted? I'm not trying to be argumentative, it's just unclear what was done.

[KJM]

Move unsubstantiated claims to the Goerner forum, then censure won't be the issue

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

How does this rule apply to competition results. The next Löddeköpinge Grip Challenge comp. in March next year will probably include lifts of world class (one of the competitors is David Horne). Will the results if published on this board be removed unless there is photographic evidence?

[Roark]

General comments before the history of the Civil War

needs to be rewritten:

1. I know that I am seen by some as one of Wannagrips

'chosen few'. I suspect that is a fair perception. But

hopefully the following can be read objectively.

2. Frankly, I see Wannagrip in a no win situation. He knows that only a relative handful of men are in the group

who can rightly claim world class feats. We all know this.

He also knows that trolls just love to cause trouble. We all know this also.

3. In our situation here, those recognizable names who

are likely to achieve world class feats, or to extend a

world class feat, are not trolls. So the only problem we have here is with newbies of unknown strength. Are they

the real thing, or just vacant of real purpuse in life?

4. Here is Wannagrip's dilemma (I have not spoken to him about this, this is what I think his dilemma is, and frankly it would be my dilemma, and yours, were we in his shoes):

He has posted rules which apply to everyone, and though this at first read sounds like the only fair way to handle the situation, perhaps it may not turn out to be so, because more credence should be afforded the claims of

our best known and best proven grip masters.

There is a difference between David Horne or Heath or

Terminator making a claim at a world class feat, than for me to make such a claim about myself.

5. Sometimes what appears to be unbelieveable at first,

turns out to be the truth in the end. (Inch's false claims

which were universally accepted until research and analysis, and his oh so helpful film clip showed otherwise).

Had there been a chat room or forum for his feats in those

days, dissenters would have been banned.

6. But how to handle that difference and remain fair?

Beats me, though it does seem that moving such matters to the Goerner forum will not increase the fiction filters

in any helpful way.

[terminator]

Joe,

Here's my $.02. I for one expect to be asked for proof of any feat that I claim which seems to be on the edge of believability. I will happily provide this proof if and when I claim something. If camera or video is not available or inconclusive I will happily meet someone's authorized delegate in a reasonable location to actually see my equipment (careful guys ) and verify it is the real thing as well as witness what I claim. Someone asking for me to prove something does not bother me, I welcome it. I never claim to do anything that I am not confident I could reproduce any day any time in public.

When I first joined the board, I was advised to not mention I could close a #3 gripper until I was certified. If you look back, my first post was the day after I got certified. That was the tone of the board, I was expected to provide proof and I expect the same of others.

This is not an America vs. the world thing either. Anyone who's been around for a while knows I personally gave Mr. Sorin a ton of grief about providing proof of the Phantom close. This does not in any way detract from how I feel about the guy or how much I respect him. He's a heck of a nice guy, and certainly has all my respect (I was priveliged to see him rip an Inch Dumbell off the floor). I just think if something's important it's worth documenting with no questions.

Never assume that if someone asks for you to prove something that the person a. hates you or b. disrespects you

I see no connection between the two. Nobody should be above proof, with no angles, bias or questions.

[David Horne]

I did do other things, just impromptu lifts. Even all the dumbell pressing, etc, just because I was there and Chris was enthusiastically showing me much of his training apparatus. Then I finished up showing him some armwrestling techniques. Real good fun. But Chris (who is a very strong man) can vouch for my armwrestling and grip abilities. Considering I can pull the Inch replica to upper stomach with either hand is it too much off a imposibility that I could deadlift 25kilo on top? Anyway, it's a shame a good day is slightly tarnished in a way, but it doesn't really matter as it was only training. It's not a record or anything, it's just a training session, on the path to lifting the real millenium dumbell.

David

[David Horne]

By the way, Mark Henry will definitely deadlift (and probably more) the Millenium bell, and no doubt will a few others including Chris James when his hand's right again.

No doubt, David

[KJM]

Roark,

I agree that moving the posts will not decrease the frequency of bs posts. I think that it will provide others with an opportunity to ignore them. Think of the Gripboard as the Washington Post and the Goernerboard as the National Enquirer. Members can choose which "paper" to read and believe. Obviously, stories appearing in the "Post" have more credibility (ie. photos for proof).

I'm simply posting this idea in order to reduce the editorial burden on Wannagrip and to negate the whining. As far as I can tell, Wannagrip is compensated as an engineer and not a discussion board monitor.

For the record, I agree with Terminator's post 100% and don't think that the grief that Wannagrip has gotten is warranted, and I am not someone who considers myself in his camp.

Let's all lighten up

[Bill Piche]

I am sure if I moved a post to the Herman G forum people would whine about that too or complain.

Let's solidify the rules once and for all in another thread. Comments to be made there on proposed modifications, edits to the way they are written.

[Sybersnott]

This is something in which the time has come. It was going to happen sooner or later, and I'm glad that it's finally arrived.

ANYONE can say ANYTHING about ANYBODY. What Wanna is saying is, "That's o.k., but please PROVIDE PROOF!!!

I have been guilty of this myself. And I got hounded about certifying, when I was dragging my lazy butt about doing it.

I'm tired of it too. Here's a constant example I see:

"Hey, I was with Lifter X this afternoon and this dude is strong! First, he could lift the Inch with either hand, OVERHEAD! Then, he was pinching 3 45 pound plates together! Then he repped the #3 gripper 40 times in a row! Hey, what's the world record for that?!? And... he wasn't done! After the brutal grip training session, he flapped his arms and started to FLY!! He flew all the way home!"

:huh See what I mean. You go, Wanna.

[Tom of Iowa2]

Syber,IF your referring to my posts-and i often do talk about others workouts- I'd like to let you know that i have sent in several photos of these work outs-that perhaps you are NOT aware of.Only 5 of them were put up.

Wanna has the Rolling Thunder pic's-Roark has seen them too.

Also some photos of 20lb. sledge 'levers' that WERE ridiculously EZ.Wanna and Roark have seen these also.Wanna chose not to post them...thats ok..but they have the photos.

I have ANOTHER batch of photos being developed at

Walgreens at this moment.On this film are More lifts from Josh's workout -MORE imprressive than the first batch of photos-plusTWO other GRIP Newbies(one of them weighs a lean 307 and the other a massive 400lbs and they both have HUGE hands..it really SHOULDN'T suprise people that their hands are strong? )

They are BOTH doing things that may be difficult for you?and me?but EZ for them...We've got some photos-I've said little about them thus far but when I get the photos be prepared for more reports from me(and reports of Newbies that might be stronger than the average guy on the street?) ,we'll get more photos too.And IF your talking about my posts(Josh workouts) yes Lifter X could easily lift the INCH in either hand.We have a new solid 180 pounder-2 3/8",non rolling Dumbell it WAS EZ for him(got the pic taken) and the other two guys lifted it easily too.....IT is solid but additional plates are added.....Why a solid 180pounder?thats where these three guys just get started.

Now thats IF you were referring to my posts.IF I'm mistaken.....I am sorry for jumping to this conclusion?However,At this juncture i can't find any posts-other than mine-that is describing anothers(lifterX) work out....

Again more photos on the way and we'll be at the Snowman Strongman contest.To get some more photos........

[The Mac]

Tom,

I personally look forward to more of your photos!!

[ChrisJames]

I am not whining but merely expressing an opinion and relating something i thought people who are supposed to be interested in strength would like to hear.

My mistake.

[gripmaniac]

Chris,

Thanks for attempting to share a great grip feat with us.

I order to avoid the . . . .er . . . . fallout ( ) in future I'd suggest:

1) Don't mention the poundages - ie "Today I saw . . . . lift a LOT of weight on a thickish bar. . . .". This should keep the Rule #5 community happy even if everyone is totally in the dark :ninja

2) Post details of the lift on another forum (I think you know which one) so that us struggling grip trainees can marvel and be inspired. We'd certainly appreciate reading and discussing such interesting news.

GM

[Bill Piche]

I am not whining but merely expressing an opinion and relating something i thought people who are supposed to be interested in strength would like to hear.

My mistake.

Again, the rules were posted for comments. In fact, they are now re-posted and pinned at the top for comments before moving forward.

So is a poll for voting.

[Nathan Say]

Hey everyone! Welcome to the rules board, the home of world-class rules! (& some of the people have an interest in grip strength, but we're not allowed to talk about it)

[Bearcat 74]

Nathan, why don't you just leave? That way you wouldn't be bitching about this. Give Bill some credit people, there are some people here that are annoying as hell, but very few trolls. Go start your own board and let people say whatever they want. More or less Bill's board, his rules.

[Tou]

I'm with Heath on this. Bill could decide it all by himself. Instead, he asks us to participate in the elaboration of a good system of rules.

[Roark]

Nathan,

Please stay, but please think.

You posted earlier something about is this where we dicuss grip or is this where we follow a bunch of rules.

It is not either or; it is both, just as in your field of math,

chatting about math but ignoring the rules for proper

sums (or whatever the term is) would be folly.

Anyway, I hope you stay, realizing that not everyone can

be trusted. If everyone could be there would be no need

for rules at all. These rules seem to be a minimum level-

indeed if some newbie comes on and sees no standard

for claiming feats, how much respect can he have for the

process?

[Rick Browne]

"Gentlemen, Here at the Rock, we have two rules"

"Rule #1... OBEY all rules"

"Rule #2... OBEY rule #1"

Barney Phife circa 1963 "The Andy Griffith Show"

(Wannagrip this was not a "rip" on the rules. I say they

are right on)

[Bearcat 74]

That was a good episode!

[Roark]

I don't think Barney ever used HGH; could be wrong though...

He was a man who needed some rules.