Mobster Doing 186.4

[Bill Piche]

http://www.cyberpump.com/gallery/album01/acl

[amaury]

Though there's still a VERY slight tilt...and the hand is not centered.

We want a spirit level in the picture.

Mobster you're our hero ! Smacker! peck! peck!

Hem! pardon me...i had to use that "kiss smiley"

A question too: is 186.4lbs your maximum load on that type of lift (let's call it DB deadlift) ?

Okay i'm being a bit provocative here but i really wonder why you didn't put more weight on your DB ?? I'm sure i'm not the only one...

[mobsterone]

A slight tilt :o . There's no pleasing some. The weight used was the weight I said I would use or as close as I could get. As my back was still sore when we took this pic I wasn't going to risk it.

[amaury]

Well, well, i was just kidding about the tilt !

But hey, you seem to be on the way to DL the Millenium DB which is 226lbs so i just wondered why 186,4 (and not 188 or even just 172 etc.)?

So you used the weight that was at stake, if i understand correctly.

Then it's in the bag !

[mobsterone]

I knows ya was kidding - not to worry. The weight was what was on offer at the weekend and I think I said I'd do 180 for the sake of it and have in fact added a little more to make it 186.4 pounds. I neglected to put the big plate in the middle but by not doing so have increased the distance to lift the bell so what the hell.

As an aside and not in anyway asking for a world record etc I trained for the first time since last Tuesday and my back injury and did as follows.

Thick Handled dumbbell

1 x 80 kilos plus handle etc weight = 186.4 pounds

1 x 100 kilos (as abave) = 228 pounds approx

1 x 122 kilos (as above) = 276 pounds approx.

All with a tilt using 3 x 2" phone books.

Millennium Dumbbell

1 x MDB with 3 x 2" books

1 x MDB with 2 x 2" books and 1 x 1" book

0 x MDB with 2 x 2" books (* equals falied attempt).

Weaver Stick work (using a 16 pound E-Z curl bar about 4 feet long)

3 x 1 with either hand with just bar

1 x 1 with right hand with bar 1 kilo and strap on

1 x 1 with right hand with bar plus 2 kilos and strap on

1 x 1 with right hand with bar plus 3.5 kilos (NB: hurts wrist at this weight) and strap on.

[terminator]

I think Mobster has the world record for Weaver stick to the rear while using a strap on.

Sorry, couldn't resist.....seriously, nice work, hope the back heals up. In spite of what you think I am rooting for you to lift the MDB.

[OldGuy]

That is a good lift, but my challenge is to lift 150 to 175 lbs on an Inch loadable handle. The handle should be 4'' long and not less than 2 3/8'' diameter with no knurling. The plates must be loaded to form the shape of a globe and the bell must be lifted to a full deadlift position.

[Jonathan McMillan]

Sweet lift! Especially with the back acting up and all, back pain can take all the wind out of your sail!!

Jon@han

[RSW]

How about passing the Inch from hand to hand Kinney style? Can any body here do that? Does anybody believe Joe kinney did it?

Robert

[mobsterone]

Oldguy I can't do it without such a handle so... Feel free to send me one and I'll have a go. Actually the inch replica handles from PDA (gazza has one and he brought it with him to the Irongrip comp) are a lot smoother than the actual bell itself. This isn't so rough as to feel knurled but neither is it burnished and or polished steel as are the PDA handles.

I've argued about the full deadlift before. I can't understand why anyone would need to do it the full range. It isn't any harder on the grip than pulling the bell one inch off the floor and holding it for time. After all other than a grip you don't need to be a great deadlifter to pull 172 pounds. Thats without adding that at some point it is highly likely that the bell would touch the body (a la the Bruce White image of him at the top position with a replica).

Will you, as per my previous responses elsewhere be putting up pics of your lifts?

Thoughts...

[Roark]

http://www.cyberpump.com/members/features/...bawlarules.html

This will help with what you acknowledge you do not

understand, Steve.

[OldGuy]

I think that lifting the bell higher shows greater control and a stronger grip. Fully lifting the bell and then lowering it under control must need more grip strength than just lifting it a few inches. When I have completed my training on 30 second timed holds with an Inch style loadable, starting at 150 and aiming at 175, I will submit pics. My own handle is PVC as in an RT handle. Chalk does not seem to help with PVC as much as it does with iron. I may just go ahead and order and Inch replica from Sorinex, they being the closest supplier to where I live. I am not trying to compete with you Steve or anyone else. I have stated before that I hope that it is you or Chris James that is the first to lift the millennium bell. Maybe John Wood is in an ideal situation to become the first to do so. Good luck!

[amaury]

Here is Kaz in his first and best attempt (at the time the photo was taken) with 176lbs on an Inch handle DB.

I think he wasn't trying to "deadlift" it, but just "lifting" it, judging by the tilt

http://www.bigsteel.iwarp.com/Articles/Yor...rkStrength.html

PS: i guess i don't have to introduce this site

[mobsterone]

Joe it will not let me look - I'm not a subscriber. get permission from the site owner In the meantime and as stated before I don't recall, indeed other than standing erect either you or Oldguy as having actually stated that a single handed deadlift was required at least until now. Oldguy and I disagree on the necessity of needing to stand erect as a test of hand strength. After all a gripper doesn't care if its shut with the shutee standing or seated and the MDB isn't as comp lift as mentioned in my suggestions to the site rules. So... i wont be bothering just yet. Perhaps when I claim to have done a full range single handed deadlift with an inch replica or the MDB then a look at the rules might be worthwhile in the meantime. N0.

Fully deadlifting the bell takes longer than pulling a bell momentarily from the floor, if thats whats being claimed, as a demonstartion of grip strength. But I don't claim that Oldguy does. I merely demonstrate that a greater weight can be shown to have been 'LIFTED'. I could and do lift the bell for as long as it would take me to lift the bell to full height, weight for a 2 second count and lower it.

Should the opportunity ever arise (possibly next year) I would be happy to demonstrate this to you both in person. You could then treat me to a cold beer or three.

[OldGuy]

That is probably the best he could do even with that style of lifting, with arm braced against the plates. Remember that an Inch Handle should be no more than 4'' long smooth and at least 2 3/8'' thick.The handle that Kaz is using, looks like is at least 5 or 6'' long. Lifing with that setup I have lifted over 190, but failed with the weight of the millenium bell.

[Roark]

The link leads to the rules for the right or left handed

deadlift. Joining the site would be a nice Christmas gift

to yourself.

There are no rules for a partial deadlift, other than

disqualification for not being a completed deadlift.

Your analogy about seated or standing gripper closings

is accurate- the gripper does not know the elevation of the hand- but the analogy falters in regard to a deadlift

because the judge does know the elevation of the bar in relation to erect body position. The hand closing the gripper cannot be out of position, the trunk in the deadlift

can be.

Similar assertions could be made about any lift:

why bother to press the weight all the way overhead?

why bother to bench press the weight all the way up?

indeed, why bother to shut a gripper all the way?

The words 'lift' or 'lifting' without a modifier are meaningless. To lift 100 pounds is either a world level

lateral raise, or a pathetic two handed deadlift. It would be

helpful to never use 'lifted' without the relevant modifiers.

If you ever get over here I will indeed buy you a beer,

and 'lift' my arm as we say cheers!

[mobsterone]

The question then is, and one I suspect would not be helped by a look at the 'rules', as to why a shorter handle - one requiring less balance and one for which it would be easier to wedge ones hand in against the bells, would be harder to lift than a longer handle (without knurling etc).

Its worth pointing out, and for once Roark can check this, that for all intends and purposes and with one coat of paint, that the grip on a MDB is not worth mentioning. Indeed the bell Joe has might have a better grip than mine.

Doesn't Kaz also say he was overtrained for this lift (ie I'm too tired and or not ready to pull it to my chest but thats ok as most of you wont budge it anyway etc).

[Roark]

The knurling on my MB makes absolutely no difference in my ability to lift it

It is ALWAYS helpful to know the rules for the various lifts, if no other reason than to not transfer terms to other,

inappropriate movements thus adding to confusion.

Barbender would have a better 'handle' on handle length

and physics than would I.

I am ignorant about Kaz's statements/conditions regarding the Inch bell, but if he made the statements that you mentioned, Mark Henry could have said the same

words and we would be continuing to wait for the first

successful clean and push press.

[amaury]

Joe i don't think you got mobster's reasoning correctly: imagine a new lift, let's call it "the #3 gripper deadlift" where you've got to shut a gripper and then deadlift it... What would you consider to be the most difficult part of the lift: shutting the gripper or fully deadlifting it ?

Now is fully deadlifting 226lbs the most difficult part or is it to be able to hold 226lbs on a 2.38" handled DB ?

Anyway here is one challenge: put a MDB on the floor and ask "who can lift it off the floor ?" ...now Mobsterone is coming into play (almost)!

Here is another challenge: put a MDB on the floor and ask "who can deadlift it ?" then Mobsterone is not coming into play...yet.

So i think that "to lift something off the floor" makes sense.

[Roark]

'Off the floor' modifies lift in the same way

that 'overhead' modifies lift. There are many

overhead lifts and ALL of them require full

extension of the arm.

When John Beatty stopped by to visit the Terrible Trio,

he lifted the Inch 152. In that enough information? Do

you know how high he lifted it, or whether he cleaned it,

or whether he put it overhead via press, or push or jerk?

He did lift it, though. Travis and I saw him and we have

photos.

(Rather than add to the confusion, John elevated the 152

about 5 or 6 inches.)

[mobsterone]

Joe other than what beer we will drink there is no relevence in what you say against what I have stated (I'm almost enjoying this - almost). If I had claimed a partial press or some such lift, as opposed to merley stating 'The Millennium bell has been lifted' without making a point of saying that I had done a full lift, then fairs fair both you and Oldguy would be spot on. But as I never did and if others including yourselves thought I had even inferred it then forgive me.

My claim (to fame) is that I have pulled the bell, in the style described elsewhere and in a manner that no one else has as yet replicated and no more.

With training yourself, Oldguy and I are sure that I will indeed lift it from the floor, then the same and to a full erect stance and finally level as well. Then I'll rename myself Thomas Inch II and start the old 'but the challenge was always in the style of Thomas Inch II and I thought that this was understood, etc...' :P

[Roark]

The confusion for me began when your original post indicated the MB was lifted off the floor, when it fact

one end came off a higher stack.

There are not enough phone books for me to match

what you have done, and hopefully soon you will get

the bell flat off the floor, and stand erect.

Rename yourself Inch any number and the beer offer

will be 'lifted'.

Mr. Inch sullied several decades of history.

[RSW]

Roark,

Its Mobsters Bell, therefore he makes the rules. What place his lift has in history is up to the rest of us.

[Tom Black]

I thought when wrote that York article that I described the handle better. The dumbbell was made with a hollow center shaft and the handle was slipped over the top. The handle appeared to be aluminum, and was very slick. Some people that day lifted it with two hands and you could see that the handle rotated a bit. I think this dumbbell would be harder to lift than an Inch replica because of both the rotation of the handle and the slick surface. Also, my recollection of the handle seems like it was actually thicker than the Inch, but at that time I had never tried that thick of a handle before. Maybe it was a full 2.5". With a forearm like the one Kaz has you would think that he could lift it with no tilt, but there is plenty of tilt there. I think it would be significantly harder to lift Kaz’s dumbbell compared to 2 3/8” PVC, sorry Oldguy. BTW, Kaz has lifted that dumbbell to full lockout, I believe with more than 172 (maybe 185). Someone posted a video of Kaz and Dennis Rogers that had this lift (around Oct of 2001).

[Roark]

RSW:

I agree it's Mob's bell, and if you saw it, I early on posted asking him what his rules were for lifting it, in anticipation of taking my Terrible Trio to the Snowman Challenge.

I would have agreed to whatever he said- short of changing a known lift.

For example, if York says 'This is our barbell' so a squat

with it need go only 6 inches deep, or if Ivanko says 'With

our dumbells, laterals need only be 3" away from the thigh'...

It could, and did, get silly.

If anyone at the Snowman Challenge gets the MB six inches off the floor, I will call him Sir, but I will not call the

lift a deadlift.

I gave Kim Wood a 108 lb dumbell with two inch handle,

and my rule was: From a dead hang, swing/curl the weight to the shoulder and then press it overhead. Kim was explaining this to some fellow visiting him, and before

Kim could completely finish the explanation, the man had

completed the designated technique! I have no name for it- just a fun thing.