Certified Scales

[jad]

Well Ben and I are going to put on another contest (will post later) and the biggest obstacle is calibrating plates. The Post Offices around me and him are having none of us bringing in plates. I checked with the salvage yard back in my hometown and they weren't up for it either. Bottom line is we need other options.

Are we allowed to calibrate our own scales? For example, can we take a small plate, weigh it on the office postage metering machine and then take it home and adjust our scale. For example, if my 2.5# weight weighs 2.8 on the office scale, I'd adjust my scale to make it weigh 2.8# If this isn't allowed, that's fine but we need a better method. Chances at getting on lists draw people to contests and I find it hard to believe that St. Louis and KC/Wichita are two of the only areas in the country that don't allow you to haul in a truckload of weights and cal them.

To summarize:

1. Is the above method feasible? I don't claim to know a lot about scales so what am I missing?

2. If the above method is accurate, is it acceptable for record lists?

3. Other suggestions for getting plates cal'd

4. What verification system is in place to make sure they were weighed on a postal/certified scale? Mikael had mentioned he would call the post office if he had any doubts. I see a lot of flaws with that plan but I admire his conviction. What's being done about this nowadays? If you own a certified scale, how do we know it's still certified/hasn't been tampered with? Are we going to get into filming the calibration of plates?

Thanks,

Josh

[The Natural]

I'm not putting on a comp, but recently calibration has become more and more important for the grip feats I do. I think I may just buy a good Siltec scale some time soon. If I were a promoter, I'd definitely want to have one around.

-Rex

[nickr104]

http://www.amazon.com/WeighMax-Digital-Shi...ref=pd_sbs_op_4

Would something like this work if you bought it? I'm not sure if it would be offical enough , but it seemed like a good idea if you have no other way.

[jad]

http://www.amazon.com/WeighMax-Digital-Shi...ref=pd_sbs_op_4

Would something like this work if you bought it? I'm not sure if it would be offical enough , but it seemed like a good idea if you have no other way.

That's pretty feasible for 40 bucks! If this is official enough, it would be an option.

[matthcarl]

Just out of curiosity, is that kind of scale more accurate than, say, a bathroom scale? When you said "certified" scale, I assumed you were talking about one certified by the Bureau of Weights and Standards...my father worked in a lab, and their scales had to actually be recalibrated and certified every year. I assume the post office might do the same, but those shipping scales are just a guideline unless I'm much mistake. I personally would think they're good enough, but no way are they "certified".

[jad]

Just out of curiosity, is that kind of scale more accurate than, say, a bathroom scale? When you said "certified" scale, I assumed you were talking about one certified by the Bureau of Weights and Standards...my father worked in a lab, and their scales had to actually be recalibrated and certified every year. I assume the post office might do the same, but those shipping scales are just a guideline unless I'm much mistake. I personally would think they're good enough, but no way are they "certified".

Are metering devices certified? We have one here in the office that our fundraising team uses and I'd think it's pretty accurate since it can put postage on stuff/charge you?? It would require the weighing the smaller weight and then adjusting the home scale because there's no way it could handle 45's, heck I doubt it could handle a 25, it's pretty delicate looking.

[matthcarl]

I think those metering devices are certified...I think they are technically post office property, so they have to be calibrated correctly. We have one at work and I think 10 lbs. is the max, though.

[vikingsrule92]

Josh, Aaron uses a scale that he bought off of ebay that is accurate to .2 oz which seems accurate enough. It is calibrated and has a max of 75 pounds. I would suggest pming jedd and Eric to make sure though.

[jad]

Josh, Aaron uses a scale that he bought off of ebay that is accurate to .2 oz which seems accurate enough. It is calibrated and has a max of 75 pounds. I would suggest pming jedd and Eric to make sure though.

So he's not using a "certified scale"? To clarify, it may read the exact same as the PO scale but it's not certfied like there's? Regarding "calibrated": who cal'd it and how was it done? Are the pinch and axle lifts from Aaron's comps counting(assuming he used that and not the PO to calibrate)?

thanks

Edited February 4, 2009 by jad

[climber511]

When I worked at the Post Office - we re calibrated our scales every year (or twice a year at times) using a variety of weights to check accuracy over a wide range. I know of no scale that is cheap (or even inexpensive) that is all that accurate - not saying they aren't out there but I was never able to find any. It's not just the initial quality of the scale but the process of keeping them adjusted over time that qualifies them as calibrated. My experience with Post Offices is that only smaller, less busy places will be willing to do it for you. My town is small and we weighed stuff for anyone - and they still do - it's not like I got special treatment because I worked there. Jedd, Eaton, and I rolled into Twin Rivers Michigan with Jedd's 2 HP and walked right in and the lady there was super about helping us weigh them up. I do think plates need to be weighed accurately if records are to have any meaning at all. I would not accept anything done on a bathroom or other uncertified scale if it was up to me. Yep it's a pain - but totally necessary.

Small Post Offices - call ahead and ask if you might do it during lunch if you buy lunch for them etc. No big PO is going to let you slow down their window service. On the other hand - some of the big offices have scales in the lobby for people to use - again I would call ahead so you don't have problems - go during slow times and offer doughnuts or something for any trouble you might cause. Bribery works!

Markets - meat and food scales are calibrated also. Best bet is again smaller - less busy places at times of their choosing.

My HS wrestling scale is calibrated - I have no idea why but it is - might be worth a phone call.

I'm sure there are other places around with certified scales - especially in a major city.

[acorn]

Josh, Aaron uses a scale that he bought off of ebay that is accurate to .2 oz which seems accurate enough. It is calibrated and has a max of 75 pounds. I would suggest pming jedd and Eric to make sure though.

So he's not using a "certified scale"? To clarify, it may read the exact same as the PO scale but it's not certfied like there's? Regarding "calibrated": who cal'd it and how was it done? Are the pinch and axle lifts from Aaron's comps counting(assuming he used that and not the PO to calibrate)?

thanks

the ebay scale was a recent addition. Previously all plates to be used in calibrated events like 2HP were taken down to the post office in the middle of the night. this new scale reads the same numbers as what I had previously gotten on other plates and is accurate to 0.2 oz as Derek said. I'm just using it to finish calibrating the rest of my uncalibrated plates.

- Aaron

[climber511]

When I worked at the Post Office - we re calibrated our scales every year (or twice a year at times) using a variety of weights to check accuracy over a wide range. I know of no scale that is cheap (or even inexpensive) that is all that accurate - not saying they aren't out there but I was never able to find any. It's not just the initial quality of the scale but the process of keeping them adjusted over time that qualifies them as calibrated. My experience with Post Offices is that only smaller, less busy places will be willing to do it for you. My town is small and we weighed stuff for anyone - and they still do - it's not like I got special treatment because I worked there. Jedd, Eaton, and I rolled into Twin Rivers Michigan with Jedd's 2 HP and walked right in and the lady there was super about helping us weigh them up. I do think plates need to be weighed accurately if records are to have any meaning at all. I would not accept anything done on a bathroom or other uncertified scale if it was up to me. Yep it's a pain - but totally necessary.

Small Post Offices - call ahead and ask if you might do it during lunch if you buy lunch for them etc. No big PO is going to let you slow down their window service. On the other hand - some of the big offices have scales in the lobby for people to use - again I would call ahead so you don't have problems - go during slow times and offer doughnuts or something for any trouble you might cause. Bribery works!

Markets - meat and food scales are calibrated also. Best bet is again smaller - less busy places at times of their choosing.

My HS wrestling scale is calibrated - I have no idea why but it is - might be worth a phone call.

I'm sure there are other places around with certified scales - especially in a major city.

I used calibrated the same as certified above - I don't know if that is truly accurate - I think they should be done on a "certified" scale - that means they were calibrated and then certified to be accurate. Certified scales will have a sticker on them saying so.

[barbe705]

we have a bunch of certified scales at the university. maybe you can check with the ones in the area.

[jad]

we have a bunch of certified scales at the university. maybe you can check with the ones in the area.

That's an idea. I take almost 4 times as many interns from a local university than any other preceptor, maybe I can work out a deal

[Incindium]

I think all the calibrated scales and certified scales stuff just goes overboard. If you are going to want to get new people to promote their own grip contests there is going to need to be some more reasonable option than having to haul all of their plates somewhere to calibrate them. I weigh my stuff on a digital scale that goes down to .2lb increments and figure that is precise enough for all intents and purposes. I think that misloading/misreading the weights in the events is something that has a larger impact on a contest. I know that it happens at some point at even the most well run contests and is hopefully caught but who even knows if it isn't caught.

I do understand the want for more precision when it comes to WR lifts but there has to be a happy medium between precision and practicality if you ever want the sport to go anywhere.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Incindium

[MalachiMcMullen]

I think all the calibrated scales and certified scales stuff just goes overboard. If you are going to want to get new people to promote their own grip contests there is going to need to be some more reasonable option than having to haul all of their plates somewhere to calibrate them. I weigh my stuff on a digital scale that goes down to .2lb increments and figure that is precise enough for all intents and purposes. I think that misloading/misreading the weights in the events is something that has a larger impact on a contest. I know that it happens at some point at even the most well run contests and is hopefully caught but who even knows if it isn't caught.

I do understand the want for more precision when it comes to WR lifts but there has to be a happy medium between precision and practicality if you ever want the sport to go anywhere.

Calibrated weights are not and probably will not be required for grip contests. If you think guys will be going for a WR and want it to count, then the plates have to be calibrated. Simple as that. For the average contest where big pulls are done, but no WR, no calibration is needed. Just a reletively accurate # and for that you just add up the plates

[bencrush]

This is definitely an important issue though. I use a digital scale that is accurate to .2lbs also. I just want the contest that we put on to have calibrated weights mainly so anyone wanting to get on a cert list can do it. It also adds legitimacy to the contest. There will be some good performances that will definitely qualify for the pinch, axle, and 2" vbar list...IF the weights are calibrated.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! I'll be calling around too. The aforementioned places like the university especially are absolutely not open to this kind of request. I'll call a small town post office and try that route too.

[climber511]

I think all the calibrated scales and certified scales stuff just goes overboard. If you are going to want to get new people to promote their own grip contests there is going to need to be some more reasonable option than having to haul all of their plates somewhere to calibrate them. I weigh my stuff on a digital scale that goes down to .2lb increments and figure that is precise enough for all intents and purposes. I think that misloading/misreading the weights in the events is something that has a larger impact on a contest. I know that it happens at some point at even the most well run contests and is hopefully caught but who even knows if it isn't caught.

I do understand the want for more precision when it comes to WR lifts but there has to be a happy medium between precision and practicality if you ever want the sport to go anywhere.

I disagree I'm afraid.

[madss]

For contest the weights have got to be accurate. Close enough will not do. post offices are a pain in the larger cities, but small ones are fine. I took this advice and went to a small PO here (inside fuel station)and weight two plates every time I filled up my tank. No problems. I have a small digital scale that I use at work( not calibrated) and it off by 1-4 oz depending on the weight.

One good thing is plates don't change over time so once they are weight your golden.

Edited February 4, 2009 by madss

[The Mac]

Just because your scale reads to 0.2lb, or 0.1kg, or whatever, does not mean that it is accurate to that amount - it just means that it WEIGHS to that amount. You could put an actual 50lb weight on a scale and get a result of 53.43506897954984384lbs, and all it would mean is that you are about 3.5lbs out.

As for other options, you could always use a set of competiton weights to calibrate a scale (as done in the UK with Laine's Ivankos, I believe), that might be possible.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Just because your scale reads to 0.2lb, or 0.1kg, or whatever, does not mean that it is accurate to that amount - it just means that it WEIGHS to that amount. You could put an actual 50lb weight on a scale and get a result of 53.43506897954984384lbs, and all it would mean is that you are about 3.5lbs out.

As for other options, you could always use a set of competiton weights to calibrate a scale (as done in the UK with Laine's Ivankos, I believe), that might be possible.

Exactly. There is a big difference between "precise" and "accurate." You can be extremely precise and totally wrong at the same time.

[odin]

Just because your scale reads to 0.2lb, or 0.1kg, or whatever, does not mean that it is accurate to that amount - it just means that it WEIGHS to that amount. You could put an actual 50lb weight on a scale and get a result of 53.43506897954984384lbs, and all it would mean is that you are about 3.5lbs out.

As for other options, you could always use a set of competiton weights to calibrate a scale (as done in the UK with Laine's Ivankos, I believe), that might be possible.

Exactly. There is a big difference between "precise" and "accurate." You can be extremely precise and totally wrong at the same time.

reliability without validity

[Jeff Parker]

maybe call and ask post offices if they have a scale in the lobby. There was one in Florida that I went to that the lobby was open 24hrs to use the automated stuff and there was a scale in the lobby that could handle I believe 80 pounds. It might look strange if anyone else is there, but one trip with all your weights at 2am and your done.

[jad]

maybe call and ask post offices if they have a scale in the lobby. There was one in Florida that I went to that the lobby was open 24hrs to use the automated stuff and there was a scale in the lobby that could handle I believe 80 pounds. It might look strange if anyone else is there, but one trip with all your weights at 2am and your done.

I'd love to find one like this. I'm not sure on how late the lobby is open but there's definitely no scale in the 3 I've been in here.

[ox3782]

Very glad you guys brought this up I was wondering these same things.The post offices around my area are tough as well esp for 30 plates or something like that.There are certified scales on ebay and calibration weights if these scales were checked with calibration weights as accurate would there be a problem there?