EricMilfeld Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I thought I'd throw out another idea for creating divisions that I think may be a better indicator of physical advantage than are weight divisions or overall hand length. My idea is to measure the competitor's hand and forearm volume by dipping the flattened hand into a bucket of water up to the elbow level and then measuring the volume displacement. Now you're measuring hand length, thickness, as well as forearm musculature simultaneously. An overflow bin could collect the displaced water and then be recycled for the next contestant's measurement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Interesting idea, Archimedes. -Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkhardmacht Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Interesting idea! But I think measuring the hand length and span would be enough! If two athletes with the same hand size would be compared with Your method the more massive athlete would be punished for having more trained his forearm and he has to enter the bigger class. BTW, I'm sure the big handed guys will tell You that hand size doesn't really matter - that's the reason why I have given up this kind of discussion. I doubt that this sport will grow - just because of the individual personal interests of promoters and athletes and not having a governing body who has the might to say that hand size classes are a must - or not! If - in the future - the decision would be made against hand size classes the competitive part of this sport is only for big handed guys - it's as simple as that and we would be kidding ourselves if we would not accept this fact. Either way is good for me - perhaps because I can't care less about competition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Brouse Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Eureka! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wscorpion Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) Hmmm.. I don't see any use in this. Someone who has >18% BF probably has big underarms / fingers but might not be strong at all as lot of it is fat. Combine this with this person having sub 7" hands and even though he's moving a lot of water, he'd be in the wrong group for sure. If I look at my own hands, my hands are almost square, 7" length, 7.5" span. Yet my fingers and hands are relatively thick. If someone with 8.5" hands would having skinnier fingers, then we might come out the same way even though there would be a huge difference. I think a value measured by (hand size * hand span * volume displacement hand) would be better. Especially as forearm size can be increased but hand size can't. Edited February 2, 2009 by White Scorpion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I don't know. You are measuring more than one thing which can effect results differently. I like weight classes for now, just for simplicities sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 It's certainly clever Eric!!! Still, I remain and forever will be FIRMLY AGAINST handsize divisions of any kind. Burkhardt is right, it would shove us small guys to the back, even if an open class is adopted. I'm not afraid of competition, I just don't like the idea of dividing up classes by genetics, especially when unecessary. Please don't think we're all ganging up on you and shooting you down Eric! I don't think that's the intent of anyone, myself included. We want to figure this out just as much as yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Now I remember why I like rock climbing so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wscorpion Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 It's certainly clever Eric!!! Still, I remain and forever will be FIRMLY AGAINST handsize divisions of any kind. Burkhardt is right, it would shove us small guys to the back, even if an open class is adopted. I'm not afraid of competition, I just don't like the idea of dividing up classes by genetics, especially when unecessary. Please don't think we're all ganging up on you and shooting you down Eric! I don't think that's the intent of anyone, myself included. We want to figure this out just as much as yourself! I agree, I don't see any reason to make divisions in the first place, BUT I do feel it has to be taken into account when organizing a contest. A contest where TNS grippers, Thick bar, Rolling Thunder, Blob, etc. are tested with multiple of these events in the same contest, will dramatically lower the chances of the smaller handed people winning the contest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 But, of course, most comps are far more well balanced than that. Pretty much the only one which was not was announced as so and was the ones run by Kevin Fulton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stew2 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Now I remember why I like rock climbing so much! I have to date actually rock climbed but think I should start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 First of all, respectful and logical disagreement is always appreciated and encouraged. I, too, prefer that the events themselves level the playing field. Body weight classes I find to be a bit too arbitrary for defining divisions, and that comes from one who would rank much higher if they were utilized. Basing divisions on overall hand length is only part of the equation, albeit the larger part, when determining leverage advantage. I think finger length itself is also relevant. But again, if the contests don't include events like palming a basketball I'd prefer no hand size divisions based on hand or span length. But with that being said, I am open to the idea of divisions based on overall hand and forearm size, for the same reasons you find weight divisions in other strength sports. It's just food for thought, and certainly not a deal breaker for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opnsysme Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) Eric, I really appreciate you efforts, your thinking is great. I am not sure if this has been mentioned before or not, so excuse the redundancy if it has. But what about a composite measurement with an associated scale or division. I'm thinking something similar to your way of scoring the SHGC. So, for example, you have a range with at least two defined "classes". The competitor would have their hand length, hand span, and finger length used to create the composite score. Then that composite score would place them on the range of classes. I hope this isn't confusing, it makes more sense in my mind of course. Edited February 3, 2009 by opnsysme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autolupus Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Define what your arbitrary hand size cut-off will be, based on width, length, span, finger thickness etc., make a silhouette of this and if the athlete's hand remains within the shadow then they're one class and if any part overlaps, then they're another, you could even have more than one silhoutte for multiple size classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 There is no simple answer - that's for sure. If the sport is to grow - and I think many of us want that to happen - it's obvious, at least to me - that some division will be needed. The sport is small and can't justify many classes now. I have chosen weight classes for Gripmas but recognize up front that it isn't perfect. But it is simple and easy for people to understand as they enter into the sport. After we get them in and interested and having fun - then we can drive them as crazy as the rest of us with all this stuff. Last year the weight classes and the hand size seemed to work out pretty close with only a few exceptions. I am having two classes but with identical weights etc so when all is said and done - we can also score it as one big group. We'll see how it all works out this time. Also having a ladies class - no controversy there - they will all be girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Also having a ladies class - no controversy there - they will all be girls. There's also the issue of what we'll have to do when sexually ambiguous people start to enter the sport. The guys who specialize on grippers can fill us in on the issues involved here. -Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Also having a ladies class - no controversy there - they will all be girls. There's also the issue of what we'll have to do when sexually ambiguous people start to enter the sport. The guys who specialize on grippers can fill us in on the issues involved here. -Rex Good point Rex! I was planning on attending, but entering the women's class. Most wouldn't argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Also having a ladies class - no controversy there - they will all be girls. There's also the issue of what we'll have to do when sexually ambiguous people start to enter the sport. The guys who specialize on grippers can fill us in on the issues involved here. -Rex Good point Rex! I was planning on attending, but entering the women's class. Most wouldn't argue. All I have to say is that Zach dressed up like Tabitha Soren one night and nobody at the wine party realized anything until he started to sledge lever. Everyone there knows that Tabitha can do a strict 16 any day of the week. -Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Also having a ladies class - no controversy there - they will all be girls. There's also the issue of what we'll have to do when sexually ambiguous people start to enter the sport. The guys who specialize on grippers can fill us in on the issues involved here. -Rex Good point Rex! I was planning on attending, but entering the women's class. Most wouldn't argue. All I have to say is that Zach dressed up like Tabitha Soren one night and nobody at the wine party realized anything until he started to sledge lever. Everyone there knows that Tabitha can do a strict 16 any day of the week. -Rex Sometimes dresses are more becoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntca Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Also having a ladies class - no controversy there - they will all be girls. There's also the issue of what we'll have to do when sexually ambiguous people start to enter the sport. The guys who specialize on grippers can fill us in on the issues involved here. -Rex Good point Rex! I was planning on attending, but entering the women's class. Most wouldn't argue. All I have to say is that Zach dressed up like Tabitha Soren one night and nobody at the wine party realized anything until he started to sledge lever. Everyone there knows that Tabitha can do a strict 16 any day of the week. -Rex Sometimes dresses are more becoming. :laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntca Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Eric, I really appreciate you efforts, your thinking is great. I am not sure if this has been mentioned before or not, so excuse the redundancy if it has. But what about a composite measurement with an associated scale or division. I'm thinking something similar to your way of scoring the SHGC. So, for example, you have a range with at least two defined "classes". The competitor would have their hand length, hand span, and finger length used to create the composite score. Then that composite score would place them on the range of classes. I hope this isn't confusing, it makes more sense in my mind of course. There is no simple answer - that's for sure. If the sport is to grow - and I think many of us want that to happen - it's obvious, at least to me - that some division will be needed. The sport is small and can't justify many classes now. I have chosen weight classes for Gripmas but recognize up front that it isn't perfect. But it is simple and easy for people to understand as they enter into the sport. After we get them in and interested and having fun - then we can drive them as crazy as the rest of us with all this stuff. Last year the weight classes and the hand size seemed to work out pretty close with only a few exceptions. I am having two classes but with identical weights etc so when all is said and done - we can also score it as one big group. We'll see how it all works out this time. Also having a ladies class - no controversy there - they will all be girls. I too have thought about this in the short time I have been on the board. I couldn't help but, seems I got on about the time there was another explosion of hand size threads. But, I think the composite measurements would work fairly well. Maybe a total of some common measurements. Middle finger to first crease (most common), Span from pinky to thumb, maybe even span from thumb to all fingers, palm size (across and from first joint of fingers to first crease on palm), individual finger lengths, etc. I don't think it would take long to compile a list of individual's measurements then determine what the cut-off sizes will be. Also, I think the more measurements you included, the more "accurate" you could be. Then again, the more you include, the more margin for error you have. Also, I have to agree with Chris on this as well. I have a hard enough time getting people interested in the sport of grip. Much less trying to convince them that all of these measurements are anywhere near relevant. Hopefully someday we will be large enough that we need several divisions. But, right now I think that this will merely serve as a good topic for discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Also having a ladies class - no controversy there - they will all be girls. There's also the issue of what we'll have to do when sexually ambiguous people start to enter the sport. The guys who specialize on grippers can fill us in on the issues involved here. -Rex Rex - does this mean you are coming to Gripmas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Also having a ladies class - no controversy there - they will all be girls. There's also the issue of what we'll have to do when sexually ambiguous people start to enter the sport. The guys who specialize on grippers can fill us in on the issues involved here. -Rex Rex - does this mean you are coming to Gripmas? At first, I thought Chris was just making a pretty good snap, but then I re-read what I wrote and it did in fact sound like I am coming to Gripmas, even under the working assumption that I'm not sexually ambiguous. -Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 By the way, Chris, is anyone strong coming to your contest? -Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 By the way, Chris, is anyone strong coming to your contest? -Rex Only the sexually ambiguous - so maybe just you and me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.