Nutrition

[andyfreeland]

Hello all, I'm still new to the grip board and don't have much to contribute to the grip world yet, but, I have been training for years and would like to throw out a line of expertise for anyone who is interested. I have trained as a natural bodybuilder, and trained many natural and not-natural competitive bodybuilders. One thing I know from extensive experience is that nutrition is what seperates the men from the boys when it comes to peak performance. On this board, the goal is to gain raw power, and without proper food intake, you will never reach your full potential.

I have trained every different body type, men/woman from 14-65. I Have trained everyone from bodybuilders to gymnists on the Sac State team, to boxers to D1 wrestlers. One thing I know is that everyone is doing the same resistance training (for their sport), but the ones who train AND focus on their diet have the advantage.

I have learned a lot on this board, and for now, this is all I have to contribute.

I'll answer any questions that I can.

Andy

Oh and here is a pic to show that I have practice on myself as well.

http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s187/an...and_35556_1.jpg

[climber511]

Very nice build - deltoids are great! I do have some questions about diet - I mean I know the basics but not as much as I wish I did. I'll put together a few questions if you don't mind. Thank you!

This is a great board for sharing the different things we know - it's great to see someone new offer something of as much value as what you are offering. You may end up sorry you offered :D

[andyfreeland]

Very nice build - deltoids are great! I do have some questions about diet - I mean I know the basics but not as much as I wish I did. I'll put together a few questions if you don't mind. Thank you!

This is a great board for sharing the different things we know - it's great to see someone new offer something of as much value as what you are offering. You may end up sorry you offered :D

Climber, nice work on the last grip comp, amazing. Sharing info is why I offered, I have learned a lot here, and i'm happy to return the favor. As far as being sorry, my offer is good, but maybe I should let you know that I need to know what your goal is and why. What I know for a fact is that it is pointless unless it's a realistic goal that YOU are motivated to acheive, i'll do what I can from there. Lets hear some specifics and get to work brother.

Andy

[timiacobucci]

Well I will take you up I guess. Is there anything specific that most people overlook when training very hard to recover more quickly or completely that could be lacking in their diet that is holding them back? I am not particularly interested in loosing fat or worried about gaining it at this point but I shouldn't mind avoiding it if it is not needed. But that is highly secondary to pure strength gains.

I am somewhat plagued by overtaining and mild strains and injuries and have been getting sick allot as well. All this holds my training back allot and is very frustrating.

I have tried a high protein diet with my girlfriend and it seems fairly healthy with lots of vegetables and good for loosing or keeping fat off but I feel I recover better myself with allot more carbohydrates. I generally try to stay away from highly proccessed stuff containing allot of sugar or saturated fats. I don't drink soda like pretty much everyone seems to now. I have figured that was a pretty fundamental foundation for a diet. Is there anything important I am missing?

I take allot of protein and vitamin C with some other general multi-vitamins. ETS from at large nutrition I feel has also been one of the few supplements which really has an effect for me.

[andyfreeland]

Well I will take you up I guess. Is there anything specific that most people overlook when training very hard to recover more quickly or completely that could be lacking in their diet that is holding them back? I am not particularly interested in loosing fat or worried about gaining it at this point but I shouldn't mind avoiding it if it is not needed. But that is highly secondary to pure strength gains.

I am somewhat plagued by overtaining and mild strains and injuries and have been getting sick allot as well. All this holds my training back allot and is very frustrating.

I have tried a high protein diet with my girlfriend and it seems fairly healthy with lots of vegetables and good for loosing or keeping fat off but I feel I recover better myself with allot more carbohydrates. I generally try to stay away from highly proccessed stuff containing allot of sugar or saturated fats. I don't drink soda like pretty much everyone seems to now. I have figured that was a pretty fundamental foundation for a diet. Is there anything important I am missing?

I take allot of protein and vitamin C with some other general multi-vitamins. ETS from at large nutrition I feel has also been one of the few supplements which really has an effect for me.

I highlighted what stands out to me off the bat.

1. Over training is overtraining. Rest is as important as training.

2. Carbs are the most important, high protein diets are a fad. The motto should be "lean meat and whole wheat". At LEAST 60% of your diet should consist of quality carbs (100% whole grain rice, pasta, tortillas, bread) 30% protein, 10% fat (good fats consists of olive oil, avocado, peanut/almond butter, fish oil etc.)

3. Veggies are the best, and will build a strong jaw

4. Processed food should be avoided at all costs.

5. You are exactly right staying away from sugar and saturated fat, these are the true enemy.

In all you know what you need to do, add more carbs like you said.

Let me know if you have any more questions brotha...

Andy

[Pancake Sprawl]

i have a problem. i think it's a unique one because i don't see much people complaining about it.

well, i can gain weight easily, and lose weight fairly easily and keep it off. the trouble is, when i gain strength and muscle, i also gain fat, when i lose fat i also lose a ton of muscle. so, i'm either more fit and a lot weaker, or big and strong but fat with love handles and a little stomach.

what should i be eating, to keep gaining muscle, while keeping my fat at a minimum?

[andyfreeland]

i have a problem. i think it's a unique one because i don't see much people complaining about it.

well, i can gain weight easily, and lose weight fairly easily and keep it off. the trouble is, when i gain strength and muscle, i also gain fat, when i lose fat i also lose a ton of muscle. so, i'm either more fit and a lot weaker, or big and strong but fat with love handles and a little stomach.

what should i be eating, to keep gaining muscle, while keeping my fat at a minimum?

Gaining muscle and fat is typical, and the fastest way to gain muscle. The trick, as you know, is keeping the muscle while taking the fat off. If you end up a "lot" weaker then there is a problem with your training or most likely food.

The good news: It is WAY easier to lose fat than to put on muscle. In this case you simply need to change the % of nutrients that you eat around a bit to stay leaner, keep the muscle you have, and promote new muscle growth.

Example: 60% carbs, 30% protein, 10% fat is a good place to start. How you do this is based on calorie count. There are 3-4 calories per gram of protein and carbs, 8-9 calories per gram of fat. THis can be done my eye, no need for a calculator every time you eat. Your carb amount should be roughly two thirds of the meal, the protein portion roughly 1/3. Fat will be in the protein and carbs so quaility of the food is important in order to keep the fat down. If you are eating veggies for your carb source then this will be off a bit because the are not as calorie dense as rice/pasta etc. You would have to eat a ton of veggies in order to get the same calorie count as a cup of rice or pasta. My advice would be to eat rice/pasta as the two thirds portion and add as many veggies as you want.

Good Protein Sources:

Eggs (the best, most complete source of protein. Stick to only 1-2 yolks with 4-6 whites to keep fat down)

Lean beef (good news about beef is the cheaper it is the better it is for you, cut away any noticable fat)

Turkey (Breast)

Chicken (breast)

Good Carb Sources:

Veggies (best but low in calories)

100% whole grain Pasta, rice, tortillas, bread.

If your meals consist of what is mentioned above you can eat A LOT and stay lean. Eat a minimum of 4 complete meals a day and never go more than 5 hours without eating something.

Let me know if I missed something,

Andy

[Pancake Sprawl]

dude thanks a lot man! that's what's been messing me up! i've been eating all of that but the eggs i'd eat like 20 of them but i'd eat the yolks too! and the beef and stuff i'd eat a lot of fattier beef.

what should i do with the yolks? i don't really wanna waste them.

[twig]

I know almost all there is to know about nutrition, and about the correct ways to eat (I've been fat for 20 years, you tend to learn about food in that time), but I really don't like healthy eating, and, whilst I never eat Pizza Hut, or McDonalds, or any of that suicide shite. I eat healthily enough but do too little CV exercise, cos I hate it! So here's a question:

How do I make healthy eating tasty, and CV exercise fun? (egg whites, grilled chicken breast and boiled brown rice has no flavour, and jogging in Moss Side is not only dull, but can get you shot!).

[andyfreeland]

dude thanks a lot man! that's what's been messing me up! i've been eating all of that but the eggs i'd eat like 20 of them but i'd eat the yolks too! and the beef and stuff i'd eat a lot of fattier beef.

what should i do with the yolks? i don't really wanna waste them.

Make hollandaise sauce (eggs benidict), lol, just kiddin....that suff is terrible for you. If you don't want to waste them you could eat em', but know that the yolk is mostly fat. And five to six whole eggs is plenty of protein for one meal, even for a big guy like you.

[AnimalCage]

Andy - You certainly practice what you preach!

I'm trying to lose 20 lbs (220 down to goal of 200) without losing strength. I've done the higher protein less carbs for a few years, and it has been better than the McDiet I (thought I) enjoyed years back (272 down to 220). I've plateau'd at 220, and need a breakthrough. From what you posted, I need to increase my carbs, yes?

Breakfast every day is 3 egg whites, 1 yolk, plus 1/2 cup boiled oats with raisins, a little soy milk, and a pinch of baking chocolate. Last year I was having a protein shake with breakfast, but I have curtailed that to just evenings after workouts.

Dinner is whatever the wife makes, which is usually healthy and includes salad, but sometimes very indulgent. Without the salad.

Lunch is the tough part, because I drive anywhere in seven states on a daily basis, 5 hours average. My lunches have been reduced to wandering around supermarkets getting pissed off at the high prices. (After all the driving, I need to stretch my legs.) Usually I'll get a banana, a citrus, and/or a berry, and keep a box of whole-grain low-sugar cereal in the van to munch on. Sometimes its a can of salmon.

There doesn't seem to be much available for a person on-the-go. Any suggestions?

[andyfreeland]

I know almost all there is to know about nutrition, and about the correct ways to eat (I've been fat for 20 years, you tend to learn about food in that time), but I really don't like healthy eating, and, whilst I never eat Pizza Hut, or McDonalds, or any of that suicide shite. I eat healthily enough but do too little CV exercise, cos I hate it! So here's a question:

How do I make healthy eating tasty, and CV exercise fun? (egg whites, grilled chicken breast and boiled brown rice has no flavour, and jogging in Moss Side is not only dull, but can get you shot!).

That is THE question right there. This is what I do:

Food: I like to cook, and through the years I have created recipies that are more good than bad (not cheesburgers, not boiled chicken and brown rice)

Example: Last night I made BBQ chicken quesidillas. 4oz grilled chicken breast, 2 large sized 100% whole wheat tortillas, 1/4 cup cheese. Grill up the chicken then chopp it real small and mix it in a bowl with about 3-4 table spoons of BBQ sauce, put the chicken filling on one side of the tortilla in a skillet, add cheese and other tortilla on top. Cook on medium heat. Wheat tortillas take longer to cook and will burn very quickly so keep your eye on em'. Makes 2 servings

Cardio: Train for SOMETHING, a half marathon with a partner ( 6-7 miles each), an iron man sprint etc.. I am currently training for an Iron man sprint in April, it keeps me motivated to do cardio and forces me to change it up so I don't get board.

Also, you don't need cardio to be lean, it is all diet. But cardio is a good habit, and is good for taking off fat in a hurry. I experimented on a guy and only changed his diet, no cardio, no weights. In 8 weeks he went from 15% down to 8% bodyfat. Afterwards he looked like he lived in the gym. Everyone looks

built if they are lean (with the exception of extreme hard hainers). Everyone has a six pack, it's just a matter of if you can see it or not...no crunches necessary

Finding that point where you can eat what you want and still like what you see in the mirror is possible. It's just a matter of figuering out what you are satisfied with food wise and physically. For me I am happy between 12-15% bodyfat, In my younger years I figured out that walking around at 8% was not worth passing up the nights out for good food and beer. At 12-14% I simply have to eat good MOST of the time, and not let the steak/potatoes/beer get out of control..

Hope this helps....

Andy

[andyfreeland]

Andy - You certainly practice what you preach!

I'm trying to lose 20 lbs (220 down to goal of 200) without losing strength. I've done the higher protein less carbs for a few years, and it has been better than the McDiet I (thought I) enjoyed years back (272 down to 220). I've plateau'd at 220, and need a breakthrough. From what you posted, I need to increase my carbs, yes?

Breakfast every day is 3 egg whites, 1 yolk, plus 1/2 cup boiled oats with raisins, a little soy milk, and a pinch of baking chocolate. Last year I was having a protein shake with breakfast, but I have curtailed that to just evenings after workouts.

Dinner is whatever the wife makes, which is usually healthy and includes salad, but sometimes very indulgent. Without the salad.

Lunch is the tough part, because I drive anywhere in seven states on a daily basis, 5 hours average. My lunches have been reduced to wandering around supermarkets getting pissed off at the high prices. (After all the driving, I need to stretch my legs.) Usually I'll get a banana, a citrus, and/or a berry, and keep a box of whole-grain low-sugar cereal in the van to munch on. Sometimes its a can of salmon.

There doesn't seem to be much available for a person on-the-go. Any suggestions?

Haha....me too! Breakfast is spot on buddy! Now for lunch, get into the habit of packing a lunch every day. If you can get into the habit of eating a health lunch like you do breakfast, you won't have to worry about over-indulging a little at dinner.

No all carb meals though ("banana, a citrus, and/or a berry, and keep a box of whole-grain low-sugar cereal " all carbs), approx. 20-30% of your meal need to consist of protein. Balance is key.

In the event that you don't take a lunch, you can find healthy food at del taco, KFC, taco bell etc...order sides of non breaded chicken and rice. At the super market get a deli sandwhich made with 100% whole wheat bread, light or no cheese, mustard no mayo, turkey/tuna/chicken.

As far as busting through the plateau and getting to 200lbs., stay away from sugar and saturated fat. Most packageing has the nutrition contents on the back. No more than 3-4 grams of saturated fat per meal, no more that 10 grams of sugar per meal. Use salt (unless Dr. says no), most people go wrong and don't eat sugar or salt when dieting. When you are low on salt you start craving french fries, pizza and chips. If you start craving these foods salt up and meal or too and the cravings will go away. Eat lots of lean meat and clean carbs (see above for examples).

Good Luck!

Let me know if I missed anything,

Andy

[AnimalCage]

packing a lunch every day

I usually eat what I pack by 10 am. Then I still stop at the store. I could pack two smaller lunches, and throw one in the back of the van. Hmmm.

get a deli sandwhich made with 100% whole wheat bread, light or no cheese, mustard no mayo, turkey/tuna/chicken.

I've never asked if they would actually make a sandwich, just looked at the pre-mades. Again, Hmmm.

stay away from sugar and saturated fat.

I constantly read labels, which led to using baking chocolate vs eating a dark chocolate candy bar.

Use salt (unless Dr. says no),

Dr. says No. Been on meds for years. Trying to kick them, hopefully the new gym membership and a much-improved diet will pay off. Besides, the meds make me feel like I suffer from ADD.

Thanks, I will try the above, and look for a good balance.

[TKtheGreek]

thanks for all the info andy you looked jacked up.

I have a question about fruit, is this something thats ok to eat in excesslike 2 bannas and an orange a day, or does the sugar out wiegh the benfits?

[Pancake Sprawl]

thanks for all the info andy you looked jacked up.

I have a question about fruit, is this something thats ok to eat in excesslike 2 bannas and an orange a day, or does the sugar out wiegh the benfits?

good question! usually eat tons of fruits that's why. for some reason i don't really like candy, but fruit i can't get enough of. must be that islander blood lol

[twig]

As long as you don't go mental, and eat whole fruit, not any sort of juice, you shold be ok. But what do I know?

[vikingsrule92]

As long as you don't go mental, and eat whole fruit, not any sort of juice, you shold be ok. But what do I know?

I drink juice, but it's the all natural 100% pure juice, not the processed crap with all of the added sugar. Is that a problem?

[andyfreeland]

thanks for all the info andy you looked jacked up.

I have a question about fruit, is this something thats ok to eat in excesslike 2 bannas and an orange a day, or does the sugar out wiegh the benfits?

When cutting fat, sugar is the enemy, including the sugar (fructose) in fruit. For gereral nutrition however, include fiberous fruit, as the fiber will act as a controll to the insulan reaction caused by sugar. Bananas are the worst I believe but don't know that for sure, Oranges are mostly juice which is all sugar. There was a discussion about the nutritious benifits of apples, the fiber in apples is good. You can eat fruit while cutting fat (I do) but I try to eat it before/after workouts as that is when a blood sugar spike is most useful.

Hope that helps!

I can elaborate on blood sugar and insulin reaction (glycemic index) if necessary,

Andy

[andyfreeland]

As long as you don't go mental, and eat whole fruit, not any sort of juice, you shold be ok. But what do I know?

I drink juice, but it's the all natural 100% pure juice, not the processed crap with all of the added sugar. Is that a problem?

Depends on what your goal is. If it is to lose fat, then it is a huge problem. If you are naturally thin then the juice isn't as big of a deal, but realize that fruit juice, unfiltered/100% or not is sugar water essentially...with some vitamins of course.

Hope that helps, let me know what your nutrition/strength/physical goal is and I can be specific

Andy

[vikingsrule92]

As long as you don't go mental, and eat whole fruit, not any sort of juice, you shold be ok. But what do I know?

I drink juice, but it's the all natural 100% pure juice, not the processed crap with all of the added sugar. Is that a problem?

Depends on what your goal is. If it is to lose fat, then it is a huge problem. If you are naturally thin then the juice isn't as big of a deal, but realize that fruit juice, unfiltered/100% or not is sugar water essentially...with some vitamins of course.

Hope that helps, let me know what your nutrition/strength/physical goal is and I can be specific

Andy

Ok then, my goal isn't exactly to be lean at this point I'm 5'11" 165 lbs and 16 so my metabolism is through the roof. My goal is to put on mass and as of now I pretty much just eat as much of whatever is in front of me as I can fit down. I know it's a terrible diet but it's pretty much how it goes for me thus far. I don't do junk food for the most part, just a bit of it every once and a while and I rarely drink soda (mostly due to acid reflux). Most of the stuff is at least somewhat healthy (steak, fish, pastas, pork, etc.) However if you could recommend some stuff that would be easy, yet healthy snacks (store bought would be easier but I'm all ears for suggestions), and meals I would really appreciate it. Keep in mind I have to eat lunch at school, and I usually have about 10 minutes for eating breakfast in the morning. Oh and I'm also lactose intolerant, thanks in advance.

[andyfreeland]

As long as you don't go mental, and eat whole fruit, not any sort of juice, you shold be ok. But what do I know?

I drink juice, but it's the all natural 100% pure juice, not the processed crap with all of the added sugar. Is that a problem?

Depends on what your goal is. If it is to lose fat, then it is a huge problem. If you are naturally thin then the juice isn't as big of a deal, but realize that fruit juice, unfiltered/100% or not is sugar water essentially...with some vitamins of course.

Hope that helps, let me know what your nutrition/strength/physical goal is and I can be specific

Andy

Ok then, my goal isn't exactly to be lean at this point I'm 5'11" 165 lbs and 16 so my metabolism is through the roof. My goal is to put on mass and as of now I pretty much just eat as much of whatever is in front of me as I can fit down. I know it's a terrible diet but it's pretty much how it goes for me thus far. I don't do junk food for the most part, just a bit of it every once and a while and I rarely drink soda (mostly due to acid reflux). Most of the stuff is at least somewhat healthy (steak, fish, pastas, pork, etc.) However if you could recommend some stuff that would be easy, yet healthy snacks (store bought would be easier but I'm all ears for suggestions), and meals I would really appreciate it. Keep in mind I have to eat lunch at school, and I usually have about 10 minutes for eating breakfast in the morning. Oh and I'm also lactose intolerant, thanks in advance.

No prob...you are in a GREAT position to be in...

#1. Carbs. You mentioned mostly protein (steak, fish, pork) but carbs are what it's all about for you brother. Of course you will need to eat protein as well but if you want to gain mass, 60-70% of your meals need to be carbs. Keep them as clean as possible. Good news is that you can eat white rice, pasta, and potatoes, which should be the main sources. Get a rice cooker and keep rice going all the time, and eat..eat..eat. Get a minimum of 100 grams of quality protein every day. Thats about all you need to do at this point. Keep hittin the weights and try to eat double what you are eating now. If you do, you will see results on the scale and in the mirror within 2 weeks.

Happy eating!

Andy

Oh, as as far as juice...sugar will put on fat, especially if you double your normal food intake. Whole fruit (Twig!) is THE way to go.

Edited January 14, 2009 by AFreeland

[Magnus]

Derek, one of my favorite bulk-up snacks is pb&j on toast. You can also keep beef-jerky, almonds, etc. on ya.

But, pretty much all of my other favorites are made with milk, though, so sorry I can't really help there

Ever hear of Lactaid?

...sugar will put on fat, especially if you double your normal food intake.

...and that's the last thing Derek needs

Edited January 14, 2009 by Magnus

[jad]

thanks for all the info andy you looked jacked up.

I have a question about fruit, is this something thats ok to eat in excesslike 2 bannas and an orange a day, or does the sugar out wiegh the benfits?

When cutting fat, sugar is the enemy, including the sugar (fructose) in fruit. For gereral nutrition however, include fiberous fruit, as the fiber will act as a controll to the insulan reaction caused by sugar. Bananas are the worst I believe but don't know that for sure, Oranges are mostly juice which is all sugar. There was a discussion about the nutritious benifits of apples, the fiber in apples is good. You can eat fruit while cutting fat (I do) but I try to eat it before/after workouts as that is when a blood sugar spike is most useful.

Hope that helps!

I can elaborate on blood sugar and insulin reaction (glycemic index) if necessary,

Andy

Abort! Abort! You're entering Quackville and you were doing so well! Calories, specifically excess calories are the enemy when cutting fat. A low sugar, low fat, high pro diet will make it just as difficult to cut fat if you aren't creating a caloric deficit. Insulin gets a bad rap. Insulin spikes alone don't cause weight gain, excess calories do. For example, it's not like you could go pump a starving Ethiopian full of insulin and he'd just pack on the pounds; it's the calories/food.

Regarding glycemic index: it's one of those things that looks promising in the lab but doesn't translate well into real life. Scores change depending on what food is consumed with what food, daily hormone levels, etc.. It is rarely even educated on for DB pts (usually an overzealous nurse trying to impress some endocrinologist ) because the evidence supporting it's benefits on blood glucose control is so weak. If it's not making much of a difference with DB's, I'm not going to get real wound up over what it can do for me.

Hope you don't take offense to this Andy; it's a very interesting thread and I enjoy reading your responses.

Josh

[AnimalCage]

I've made two changes this week.

First, I have a loaf of 100% whole grain bread in my work van, along with a bottle of mustard. Now for lunch I just go to the deli and get 1/4 lb of low sodium meat and 1/8 lb of cheese.

Second, I have been a BIG juice drinker for years. (Had to have something to replace the soda/green tea/mass-produced protein shake drinks, all very high in sugar, that I used to down by the gallon.) So I switched to juice, and would easily drink a half gallon during the work day. Lately, I have been drinking a lot less juice and eating more whole fruit. I think it was more of a mental adjustment. I was accustomed to drinking a lot. Period. I had to realize that I don't need two quarts of fluid during the day. One or two peices of fruit, with the occasional water fountain supplement, seems to be enough fluid to get me through my work day.

The results will tell me if the direction is right, or where I need to make adjustments.