Leverage In Lifting And Strongman

[Pancake Sprawl]

ok guys, i was wondering do short guys have the better leverage in weight lifting to taller guys or is there something that taller guys have an advantage in? i'm a taller guy and my favorite lift is the deadlift, though i've heard from others that i don't have the ideal body type, a more shorter person with longer arms would be ideal.

[John Beatty]

For PL, short arms & a thick chest are best for bench, obviously. DL a shorter torso & long arms are best, and supposedly there's a better leg design for DL & Squat, I can't remember how it goes, but a longer femur & short tib/fib are supposed to be better for one & the reverse for the other.

I'm in the really bad bench design, long arms & a wide flat chest. The long arms help my DL, though. I'm a bretty bad squatter for my weight, so I'm guessing the leg & torso set up for me is the wrong one.

[Bob Lipinski]

The best deadlifters are often a little tall and lean for their weightclass.

[Chris Mathison]

you could get very involvded here. Someone with a short torso and long arms is supposed to be a better deadlifter but eveyrone has different muscle/tendon insertion points and that his huge in determining strength.

[Jeff Parker]

I used to do strongman and I am 6'5" like you.

I was terrible in any pressing movement because of my long arms (and my lack on strength )

I was really good at the yoke walk. Did 750 for 100'

I was really good at farmers walk. 300 per hand for 100' was not hard

I was really bad at the tire flip

I was really good at the conans wheel and hussefel stone.

I was really bad at deadlifting and atlas stones. I think my best atlas stone to waist level platform was around 285.

I also did well in the arm over arm car pull. I think my long body really helped me there giving me a long push backwards with my legs.

Basically anything that I had to pick up from the ground was hard, but things that started up in the air was easy. Hope this helps.

[John Beatty]

The best deadlifters are often a little tall and lean for their weightclass.

Agree there, My best PL comp pull was 705, I was a 225lb 242'er at 6'. Got 755 to the knees at 235.

[Pancake Sprawl]

thanks very much for the info guys, i don't really know if i'm really good at the deadlift, but i really love the movement ever since i heard jon pall sigmarsson say if you cannot deadlift then you cannot live or whatever lol. i feel i have a very strong lower back, i just cannot tell you a decent number that i can do because i don't have that much weights and i don't have an olympic bar to put them on, i mostly just lift heavy rocks and sand bags to help my lower back, kind of like a good morning more then a deadlift.

[shizen]

I think the best lifters find ways to improve there weakness and use there body to lift the most they can for there weaknesses.

That said everything has been covered pretty much on leverages. I try not to think about it and always try to work extra hard on the things I do worst at.

[Pancake Sprawl]

I think the best lifters find ways to improve there weakness and use there body to lift the most they can for there weaknesses.

That said everything has been covered pretty much on leverages. I try not to think about it and always try to work extra hard on the things I do worst at.

oh yes that's the same way i think. that's why i hadn't done much deadlifting, working more on my bench because i have a terrible bench for someone my size. now i'm going for a bit more back work because i started to have muscle imbalance. my chest and my deltoids (the front of my shoulder i think it's called delts?) were getting huge, but i was having poor posture and my back was losing muscle mass.

[DAN PRAYDIS]

this is one of the best dead lifters still at it tall and strong http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C0ntK5l4MQw

[Pancake Sprawl]

that guy has some ridiculously long arms and looks like he's got a good sized pair of mitts on him too! that guy is a beast!

[DAN PRAYDIS]

that guy has some ridiculously long arms and looks like he's got a good sized pair of mitts on him too! that guy is a beast!

chris i see you are 6.5tall my weight lifting buddy that use to lift with me until he moved to arkansaw was the same height as you he had a long bicep and what ever he did you saw it fast his arm was never over 19 but he looked like arnold and he could do any lifts easily we even did 115 and 120 dumbell cheat curls his bench was his hardest lift but got he up to 395 touch go and he was only 23 at the time ive been lifting on and off for 35 years and i see you have no weak lifts just ones you need to put in high gear good luck training this year

[The Mac]

At 6'5" you'd be pretty average height in a WSM line-up. I want to say that the IFSA line-up is on average a little shorter but not by much.

[climber511]

There's a whole different side to leverage that hasn't been mentioned yet and I probably won't explain it well. It's the leverage difference seen between a thin lifter and a heavier one. In one of the Sportivy Press Russian Manuals - they talk about what a lifter should weigh at certain heights to perform optimally. As the girth of a muscle gets bigger, then the leverage across the joints increases and more weight can be lifted. You can read similar articles on Elite Fitness and Westside. This is a major factor in why bigger people with bigger muscles are stronger.

[The Mac]

Yes, this seems to work well in squat and bench but not so well in the deadlift - ref Bob's post above.

[John Beatty]

Brad Gillingham is one of the world's best deadlifters & he's very tall, too, 6'4", I think. All the Gillinghams are good pullers & all tall.

[climber511]

Those boys also carry a very large amount of muscle as well.

[The Natural]

One simple example of leverage involves the increase in thigh circumference that comes with more muscle and more weight. As the quads become larger, there is more muscle between the skin surface and the bone. Therefore, as the bar travels up the thighs, it will be further from the skeleton than it would be if the thighs were leaner. The further away from the body's center line, the more out in front the bar is, the harder it will be to lift it.

Of course, with quad hypertrophy comes (usually) an increase in leg strength, and so there's a trade-off. More strength but worse leverage.

-Rex

Edited January 6, 2009 by The Natural

[timiacobucci]

Well I am certainly in the horrible bench good deadlift body type. I am pretty short though. I will say I don't have much aspiration for strongman because so much of it is geared towards being much taller than I am. So you've already got that advantage despite other body mechanics. I do have better levers than taller guys for allot of things like steel bending and arm wrestling, even atlas stone lifting because I have more muscle over less spinal distance to move the thing. But never the less I would have to actually press allot of stones at the heights of some of these platforms to load them where you would only have to roll it off your chest.

There is allot of tradeoff for powerlifting as has been said, but generally it will be harder the taller you are. You will have longer arms being taller which makes benching harder. And you gotta move the bar so much farther in effect doing much more actual work, work being force x distance, and the distance being much greater at your height for a squat or deadlift than me for example. But on the flip side like I said, if you get strong enough you have the advantage to go much farther in strongman stuff.

[Pancake Sprawl]

Well I am certainly in the horrible bench good deadlift body type. I am pretty short though. I will say I don't have much aspiration for strongman because so much of it is geared towards being much taller than I am. So you've already got that advantage despite other body mechanics. I do have better levers than taller guys for allot of things like steel bending and arm wrestling, even atlas stone lifting because I have more muscle over less spinal distance to move the thing. But never the less I would have to actually press allot of stones at the heights of some of these platforms to load them where you would only have to roll it off your chest.

There is allot of tradeoff for powerlifting as has been said, but generally it will be harder the taller you are. You will have longer arms being taller which makes benching harder. And you gotta move the bar so much farther in effect doing much more actual work, work being force x distance, and the distance being much greater at your height for a squat or deadlift than me for example. But on the flip side like I said, if you get strong enough you have the advantage to go much farther in strongman stuff.

i've seen pretty short guys in WSM and some of them do pretty well like Elbrus Nigmatullin, he was one of my favorite newer strongmen but he disappeared? he was only 5'8 or so. Jarek Dymek is also about 5'9-5'10 if i remember correctly.

[Jeff Parker]

Not sure where this myth that most WSM guys are tall. Some are, but most of the best have not been 6'5". Lets look at the winners.

Marius: 5'11 to 6'1" depending on what website you believe. Winner of 02, 03, 05, 07, 08

in 06 it was pfister who is 6'5 or 6'6, again depending on what website you believe.

in 04 it was Vasyl Virastyuk at 6'2"

in 01 it was svend karlson at 6'2"

in 00 it was Janne Virtanen at 6'5"

in 99 and 97 it was Jouko Ahola at 6'1"

in 98 it was magnus who is listed anywhere from 6'4" to 6'6.75" I have seen him listed on wsm programs as all these heights as well. Lets call him 6'5"

in 91, 94, 95 and 96 is magnus ver magnuson at 6'2" to 6'3" depending on where you look.

in 93 Gary Taylor at only 6'

in 92 we have the big guy, ted van der Parre who is 6'8" to 7' depending on where you look.

84, 86, 88, 90 Jón Páll Sigmarsson at 6'3"

89 is Jamie Reeves at 6'3"

83 and 85 is Geoff Capes at 6'5" or 6'6"

80, 81, 82 is Bill Kazmeir at 6'3"

79 Don Reinhoudt at 6'3"

77 and 78 is Bruce Wilhelm at 6'3"

30 wsm contests.

16 different winners.

5 at 6'4" or larger

11 at 6'3" or smaller

30 years contested.

6 years winners of 6'4" or taller

24 years of 6'3" or shorter.

Of the guys 6'4" or taller, Geoff Capes is the only one to have repeated his wins.

of the guys 6'3" or smaller, 6 of them have multiple wins.

The most common heights to win are 6'2" and 6'3"

I beleive this is because at these heights you have many advantages in leverage of a taller athlete, but are not hindered by being too tall and thus can still put up respectable squat, deadlift, etc numbers.

Also keep in mind when people list their heights, if numbers are off it is usually on the high side. I have met Bill Kazmier, have shaken his hand and have a photo of me and him standing together and he is not 6'3. I know he is older and may have "shrunk" a little, but I would not put him a hair over 6'1".

Conclusion. 6'2" is the perfect height for strongman. Anything taller or shorter puts you at a slight disadvantage. This slight disadvantage can obvisouly be overcome as is seen by multiple heights for winners, but 6'2 is still optimal.

Edited January 9, 2009 by Strongmantobe

[climber511]

Not sure where this myth that most WSM guys are tall. Some are, but most of the best have not been 6'5". Lets look at the winners.

Marius: 5'11 to 6'1" depending on what website you believe. Winner of 02, 03, 05, 07, 08

in 06 it was pfister who is 6'5 or 6'6, again depending on what website you believe.

in 04 it was Vasyl Virastyuk at 6'2"

in 01 it was svend karlson at 6'2"

in 00 it was Janne Virtanen at 6'5"

in 99 and 97 it was Jouko Ahola at 6'1"

in 98 it was magnus who is listed anywhere from 6'4" to 6'6.75" I have seen him listed on wsm programs as all these heights as well. Lets call him 6'5"

in 91, 94, 95 and 96 is magnus ver magnuson at 6'2" to 6'3" depending on where you look.

in 93 Gary Taylor at only 6'

in 92 we have the big guy, ted van der Parre who is 6'8" to 7' depending on where you look.

84, 86, 88, 90 Jón Páll Sigmarsson at 6'3"

89 is Jamie Reeves at 6'3"

83 and 85 is Geoff Capes at 6'5" or 6'6"

80, 81, 82 is Bill Kazmeir at 6'3"

79 Don Reinhoudt at 6'3"

77 and 78 is Bruce Wilhelm at 6'3"

30 wsm contests.

16 different winners.

5 at 6'4" or larger

11 at 6'3" or smaller

30 years contested.

6 years winners of 6'4" or taller

24 years of 6'3" or shorter.

Of the guys 6'4" or taller, Geoff Capes is the only one to have repeated his wins.

of the guys 6'3" or smaller, 6 of them have multiple wins.

The most common heights to win are 6'2" and 6'3"

I beleive this is because at these heights you have many advantages in leverage of a taller athlete, but are not hindered by being too tall and thus can still put up respectable squat, deadlift, etc numbers.

Also keep in mind when people list their heights, if numbers are off it is usually on the high side. I have met Bill Kazmier, have shaken his hand and have a photo of me and him standing together and he is not 6'3. I know he is older and may have "shrunk" a little, but I would not put him a hair over 6'1".

Conclusion. 6'2" is the perfect height for strongman. Anything taller or shorter puts you at a slight disadvantage. This slight disadvantage can obvisouly be overcome as is seen by multiple heights for winners, but 6'2 is still optimal.

It would be interesting to see the same done with bodyweight.

[Jeff Parker]

it would be interesting to see it with bodyweight as well but much harder. Anyone winning WSM would be at the same height in any of their competitions, but most vary their weight considerablly. Look at Magnus. He has looked like 2 different people competing at such different weights. If I did look it up and found their weights, it would be hard to tell if this weight was during their win, eailer, later, etc. You could look at back footage of the wsm shows because they listed their height and weight each time, but I believe that to be about as accurate as the listings for pro wrestling like WWE (is that what they are called now? It was WWF when i watched it.)

[Bob Lipinski]

Extra weight can hurt in the deadlift because some squat guys can't get into a good position to pull at the bottom.

For the bench and squat, extra weight means more coushion and bounce at the bottom. The center of gravity is improved with the squat, and the ROM is decreased with the bench.

And of course, exceptions are everywhere, but that is a very general guide I think.

Jeff, I'd say over 6' is tall! Strongmen need to be kinda tall for two reasons-

1) Being taller increases total possible muscle size and weight (in a very general sense)

2) Rocks to platforms, fingal fingers etc benefit from height and crap like rope pulls are better with increased stroke length. There is the odd power event that favors the shorter types, ie log press and squat, but they aren't as common as the other events.

[Jeff Parker]

Extra weight can hurt in the deadlift because some squat guys can't get into a good position to pull at the bottom.

For the bench and squat, extra weight means more coushion and bounce at the bottom. The center of gravity is improved with the squat, and the ROM is decreased with the bench.

And of course, exceptions are everywhere, but that is a very general guide I think.

Jeff, I'd say over 6' is tall! Strongmen need to be kinda tall for two reasons-

1) Being taller increases total possible muscle size and weight (in a very general sense)

2) Rocks to platforms, fingal fingers etc benefit from height and crap like rope pulls are better with increased stroke length. There is the odd power event that favors the shorter types, ie log press and squat, but they aren't as common as the other events.

Good point. The average male in the us is 5'9.5" I was really refering to being unusually tall. If someone was the average male height and tried to do strongman professioanlly, he would have a hard time and most likely never win a big contest.

There is an American strongman, cant think of his name for some reason, but he was not that tall, maybe 5'9". In Africa? he could not lift the first atlas stone to the platform because it was actually over his head. He had to try and throw it up there and when he finally got it up there it rolled off the back from the force of his throw and did not count.

in the 2008 WSM, 4 events favored tall and 4 favored shorter, but shorter when it comes to WSM means around 6'.