Who do you think was the strongest?

[OldGuy]

Pick the man who you believe to be the strongest from the preceding 10 choices.

[paul valpreda]

That's a tough choice OldGuy, because they all had their own individual areas of immense strength. I selected Anderson because he was an all-around, brutally strong individual! Interesting post.

[Nathan Say]

You've got to balance everything. It's so hard to compare Anderson's 1230 squat (& the rest or that stuff), Cyr shouldering a 900lb railroad rail & walking w/it or a 450lb+ barrel of H2O, Saxon's bent presses (384 & 370), Doug Hepburn's 450lb (probably super strict) olympic press & 260 strict curl, Goerner's deadlift (w/1 arm or 2), Apollon near-snatch w/that bar. Who can say who is best?

PS I think Inaki Perurena should be on the list even though he's not an oldtimer. Not everyone can shoulder an almost 700lb stone & squat 320kg (~705lbs)x15.

[Tom of Iowa2]

How was the Louis Cyr shouldering of a 900lb railroad tie described?

How did he shoulder it?

Was it on one shoulder?

Was it across his shoulders like a yoke walk?

I went to a site a few months ago that had-i beleive description of a lithuanian/russian? strongman contest where instead of a "sprint" with an 880lb yoke(which modern strongmen go around 100ft?...in often 20 seconds or less-Chad smith and Svend in less than 12 seconds!!they RUN with 880)the Lithuanian contest used a SUPER Heavy Yoke of over 1150lbs for 30 ft or so(they may have taken the weight to over 1200!) Also i read bud jeffries can take 1000lb yoke for a walk......anywhoooo Cyr's shouldering of the railroad tie is more intrigueing to me now?sort of depends on how he got that sucker up to his shoulder........?

[Nathan Say]

The rail was ~35ft long & a typical weight/yard is 80lbs/yard. That makes 11x88/3=~933lbs. I guess the only way to shoulder something like that would be to pick up one end to the shoulder & then walk along until it's balanced.

[Tom of Iowa2]

Thanks.And you know what? the ' 933lb.

rail ' lift actually sounds 'do-able' by someone.....other than me ???

Seriously it is an odd lift- but I think modern guys could do it....sort of like doing HALF the 'fingles finger'event(the weight doesnt' have to be flipped over-in fact LESS than half the lifting distance of the fingle fingers-) and modern guys are flipping 660+lbs up and all the way over and Pfister in  particular could flip far more than just 660lbs all the way over.The event is esay for him AND keep in mind he has flipped 4 lighter fingers before he gets to the big one.If you were geting under that rail road tie.

Then you consider that the modern guys are SPRINTING with 880lbs on there aback and probably capable of walking short distances with well over a thousand.(yes i know the Yokes are well balanced implements and the weight dispursed over BOTH shoulders....)

Also..was watching FX 'toughman'contest on TV and it showed how one of the contestants trained for strength.He shouldered a 500lb cement colum and walked with it.He was a huge 350lb kid and he worked at a cement plant BUT he was not as strong as a modern Pro strongman.

Long story short?would like to see someone try this..would likely take some gradual training but I think it could be done.

In the mean time we will try to duplicate this with a lighter rail and let you know what happens.....

Great event for a strongman contest...they brought back the appollons axle at considerable cost...why not the Louis Cyr steel rail 'event'.....??? :hehe

[Roark]

Save me some time, please: In what country did this

Cyr rail feat happen? When?

Was the 80 lbs per yard ascribed? (Some rail weighs 106

lbs per yard.)

I have not filed the book on Cyr yet- is that where this

feat is described? The book by Jowett or by Weider?

Thanks.

[Nathan Say]

I don't know if this helps but I've seen the weight of that rail as high as 1800lbs, probably in a quotation from Weider's book. I've seen 900 or so most often on websites & stuff so I think that's what I believe. Cyr had a bunch of really physical jobs out in the bush, like he was a lumber jack for a while. Maybe he worked on a railroad also? I don't have either of the books, all I've read is on websites & whatever is in the Super Athletes.  ???

[Roark]

As I feared 1,800 to 900 lbs- a 100% margin of

error. If both those figres have been presented for

the same feat, then which is correct? Perhaps neither.

This may end up being similar to the story where Cyr supposedly carried four men to the police station.

[Nathan Say]

I thought it was just two, one under each arm. Hey, 100% margin of error again! :p

[Roark]

There was one claim for four men- perhaps each of the two

men had split personalities? I'll check...

Oops, I had that wrong- it was a claim for three men, not

four, sorry.

See Iron Game History April 1990 for three varying accounts.

(actually, I am confident I have seen a claim of four men,

but because I cannot find it yet, I'll settle for three. If I

were guessing, the claim of four would be by either Jowett or

Venables in an article. We'll see)

[Tom of Iowa2]

maybe it was a 933lb rail road 'rail'......on each shoulder.

Roark,there is you 1800#  

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

I can't see Rezazadeh on the list. He should be. At the age of 24 he can clean and jerk 263 kg like it was a little toy, in a drug tested event I might add. I would not be surprised one bit if he could overpower Mark Henry in quite a few strength events.

[Tom of Iowa2]

You are probably correct.Rezazedeh and many of the top super heavy 0-lifters are perhaps all around as strong as Henry (and cetainly as strong as the old time lifters/strongmen??????!!!!!!!).'Perhaps' is the key word..we know so little about these TOP O-lifters and they rarely venture out into other strength sports.However,its safe to say these guys -with very little training could probably master the deadlift and the squat and put up big numbers and put up a decent(like Henry)500+bench without a shirt....

Chermikin is also just a beast.I have the Tape of him attempting to clean 600lbs!His explosive ness and quickness-especially for such a huge man 375lbs+is mind boggleing.

Chermikin and Rezazedeh also appear to have large hands..which as we all know is a plus when it comes to grip strength and strongman events or tests!

I mainly bring up Henry(although not a great fan of his)because we DO know so much about him.Its been documented.The numbers and feats of strength HAVE been done..with documentation.

Rezezedeh and Chermiken(and the others)??boggles the mind..

[crushjunior]

The Olympic lifters must be using something a little "extra" or how else can you explain training volumes with snatches, cleans and jerks that approach at least 9,000-16,000 lifts a year with weights over 70% of 1 RM at the elite level. That doesn't include back and front squats. They train 4-5 times a week. Wtf? I could train 4-5 times a week on snatches and cleans for 1 week.. and lay in my bed for 3 weeks before I could bend over again. My deadlift workouts are 1 time per week and my upper body workouts are once every 5 days. I can't do squats and deadlifts on the same day. I can't do squats and deadlifts within 3 days of each other and I really don't like doing them in the same week. Why do OL train like marathoners? They're not going to perform 100 consecutive cleans and snatches in the competition so why do they train that often and how? Anyway, I agree that Rezazadeh and Chermerkin, Botev, Weller etc. are extremely strong. I would like to know how they would do in the powerlifts and strongman (hey, they certainly have the training volume for strongman) if they trained for them. In powerlifting Reinhoudt, Kazmaier, Steve Goggins, Ed Coan, Willie Wessels, Gary Frank, Andrew Bolton, Ano Turtiainen and a few others are also extremely strong ( to say the least). I've seen pictures of Franks 900+ lb deadlifts (up to 932 now) and I think there's no arguing that he has a legit WR deadlift.

As for the list we can't verify many of the feats of many on that list even though  they many have been very strong. My vote goes to Paul Anderson since he was the world champion in weightlifting and there were so many reports (and videos) of his exceptional strength after he turned professional.

[The Mac]

With respect, training the same lift 4-5 times a week is not that much of a problem depending on the volume and intensity used. I don't think personally the ability to do that "proves" the usage of "enhancers" per se.

[ChrisJames]

Some of the people on this forum train the gripper everyday and other aspects of grip.

[Arthur Antonopoulos]

Hey crushjunior,

This is the "grip"board, but hey, since we're on the topic, the olympic lifts pretty much have no negative portion to the lifts, a reason why it doesn't take too much to recover from and hence the ability to train them often.

As The Mac stated, volume and intensity also play a big factor. They're training below their maximum and use low reps, triples to singles, also making it easier to recover. Plus they have adjusted to it over a long period of time and many have been doing it since they were young.

As for the volume of lifts, olympic lifting is an extremely technical sport, hence the need for constant drilling of the lifts.

Any reason why you singled olympic lifters as using something "extra"? I'd be VERY surprised if less than 99% of all elite athletes at olympic or world championship level aren't using something "extra".

Some people might differ to what I'll write next, but I think that it's much easier for olympic lifters to make the transition to powerlifting than vice versa, even though Hamman looks like he might come through with the goods in the next few years.

Also, as a note, the last MILO had an article about Bruce Wilhelm, US weightlifter in the late 60's, early 70's (I think). Haven't got the article on me, but he did win the first two WSM contests. Since then most olympic lifters enter WSM when their careers are over at the elite level, usually in their late 30's after injuries have taken their toll. Guess weightlifting pays better and is more recognised for now.

From memory he also curled two 20kg (44lb) plates together by the lips and pressed them with no training for the feat. Now that's one #### of a grip.

Arthur

[Nathan Say]

Why to have a huge workload:

When you get to a certain level, huge volume is a necessity just to maintain that level. Leonid Zhabotinsky was stuck @ the same world record for ~4yrs or so & the coaches looked at his logs from those yrs & saw that his yearly training volume hadn't increased. He added to his volume & started setting world records again. This is possible because they had special sessions where they trained to increase the work capacity. WSB does this with their sled dragging. They also say that volume is essential for increasing strength. The Russians also had various methods for restoration & recovery like massage, saunas, hot tubs, etc which they did for at least 1hr EVERY DAY. There was a test done on middle-distance runners where they compared a bunch of athletes before & after adding in restoration sessions & the restoration sessions made a very significant difference. Imagine a stable where big stallions get groomed & pampered 24/7. That's what the Soviet weightlifters were like & that's why they could handle such a huge workload all the time. There's something about the hands though that makes it possible to train them every day without too much trouble. Maybe it's the everyday activities that does it. It's really just low-intensity exercise that would get blood into the muscles etc & the hands don't have much muscle in them to begin with, so there's less to repair after training (as opposed to the back or legs).

[crushjunior]

Arthur, that is true that OL has almost no negative phase in the lifts, as for something "extra" I wasn't referring specifically to steroid use but to other possibilities as well. The reason I singled out OL is because their volume is so high in comparison to PL where I repeatedly hear of deadlifts and squats being worked only once per week. Certainly no lifting of 70% or greater or 1 RM in DL&SQ 4-5 times a week for multiple reps and multiple sets. I stand by my assertion that O Lifters would do better not worse it they cut down on their volume. I don't buy the argument that the volume is needed to maintain technique as lighter weights could be used to develop it and maintain it. OL causes damage to muscle tissue and connective tissue with loads and power outputs and extreme range of motion (drop into deep squat, bar supported in snatch with arms rotated behind plane of body, very high power outputs, > 6000 watts in some cases!) that cannot possibly be recovered from in one day. In my case the result would be utter exhaustion within 1 week( and I'm ex-track and field, and I jog to help recovery!), obviously these elite lifters are capable of much higher volume than I am but their volume resembles that of a track athlete in an event that puts far more stress on the body then running track does (or playing tennis). That to me is a contradiction.

An example of a world champion OL and world record holder (and a very good one) who used much less volume then the typical OL (a mere 2000-3000 reps in all lifts combined in one year!) is Robert Bednarski. This proves that low volume can work very well for a OL, and that volume is in line with what I find reasonable.

[Nathan Say]

This proves that low volume can work very well for a OL, and that volume is in line with what I find reasonable.

I don't know about that proving anything. The Soviets had the coaches who knew all the 'rules of thumb' & then the egghead scientists would give them a theoretical basis & come up with new ideas that the coaches would try (like exercises using reversible strength = plyometrics). There were enough athletes being tested to see that high volume was the way to go to get stronger. Pavel T has also written about that & now many powerlifters are bench pressing 6 days/week, for example. That isn't usually practical for a regular person though, so it's more practical for a person who isn't planning on setting world records to train maybe 3 times a week.

[The Mac]

I don't buy the argument that the volume is needed to maintain technique as lighter weights could be used to develop it and maintain it.

The technique for lifting heavy weights is different for that using lighter weights, at least in the Olympic lifts. You have to teach the body to work at the very high levels of intensity required.

[Tom of Iowa2]

Arthur,

You bring up a good point about the success of O-lifters in strongman competitions...as you said..they are often in the twilight of their careers before going into strongman.Wilhelm,Gary Taylor,Bergamanis,had some hard miles (and significant injuries) on them by the time they competed.

Scarey thought though...as well as all those guys did in WSM-and as quickly as they adapted we still HAVEN'T seen a TOP superheavy weight go into strongman.Wilhelm was a top american 0-lifter but far behind the rest of the world.Taylor was what in 220's? and wasn't even  a gold medalistBergamanis?

Recent strongman 'wunderkind'Jesse Marrunde is a decent O-lifter(when compared to the top international guys)but is tearing up strongman.

Would be wonderful to see one of these guys capable of a 540+C&J and a 425+snatch give Strongman a whirl...while they are still in good health ...not making predicitons but it would be interesting to see.

I feel like in just 3 or 4 years the sport of strongman may be paying more-competions frequent enough to allow consistant 'earnings'  and will be getting more international recognition(as in more TV time)......Rezazedeh is still only 24?

 

[Arthur Antonopoulos]

Tom, that would be great. I can't remember where, but I did hear that Rezazedah was thinking of giving strongman a shot, but not sure when. I'd say sooner rather than later, if at all.

Arthur

[ChrisJames]

Tom ,

Gary Taylor won a silver in the Olympics in the Snatch,he also won world strongest man ,won British powerlifting title and also won the British Bodybuilding title.Truly an all rounder !

I think he is now assistant governor in Wandsworth prison,i bet he doesn't get much grief off the prisoners !!