The Strictest Form Of Bending?

[Booyah!!!]

So what do you guys suggest for competitions?

Heslep Style in thin wraps? Slim Style?

Since you asked, I suggest a combination of 2 bending events in contests, DO and or DU and or reverse. I think the Heslep style would be too subjective unless modified some how, like maybe PVC sleeves around the arms or leaning on something like a very elevated ice chest so you arms, at least from the shoulder to elbow would remain straight out at shoulder width, any part of elbow over the width lines and DQ. Brookfield style, although a great feat of strength like DO, DU and Reverse bending, simply does not excite me much at this time.

Ben, Awesome bends there Young Strong Buck I think the Mag would be highest as I know he wants to keep it simple using CRS and thicker bars trump the thinner ones at any length. It would be cool to see the vid and your name on the top of that list if David opened it again.

[acorn]

"Personally i feel that the bending we do today regardless of style has no tradition what so ever now i no that things evolve put i feel that we still need to keep in a certain amount of tradition." <<< YES!!!

In my opinion, a KOAB in double leathers with crush pads, isn't near as impressive as single 10" suede or IMP. The biggest bends done belong to Gazza and Pat, and they weren't done with major wrapping sessions and double leathers out on the end. Pat does his stuff with no rubber bands, and in single 10" thin suede. Gazza bends a huge shiny with no wraps. I love seeing the hard work and dedication that those two guys have put forward. I'm not saying everybody else hasn't felt the pain, but those two are just outstanding.

I love this thread. I love the traditional ways that the guys who are my heroes used. Those guys weren't fakes as people claim, they were true traditional, strongMEN. The Atom's feats stand today as some of the most amazing things done. If anybody wants to doubt him there's a guy named Slim Farman who will let you know that it's true. One of the only strongman from back then who is still alive and kickin has the hammer records tied up and they won't be going anywhere for a very long time.

The traditional guys are the ones bending the biggest stuff, and doing the craziest feats with ease. My opinion is that traditional is the way to go.

Casey not necessarilly so put me and Pat in a contest environment with all the Big Dogs at there best Aaron,Ben,Mike,Paul,Chad,John,Adam etc and all useing there own favourite wraps anyone of these guys on there day can pull it out the bag now im not being arrogant or big headed here but reduce the pads to say ironmind wraps then i think all the above can still hit big steel but its reduced considerably the same for me i can on a good day hit a fantastic shiny in ironmind wraps or less i might even scare a psycho shiny i think Pat can probably hit 95 percent of his top bends in ironmind or thin leathers also but i would say that the other guys above are abit of the 95 percent mark if you compare there big wrap bends to there say ironmind wrap bends so what i am getting at here is a persons top bend in bigger wraps a BETTER + STRONGER bend than his say 75-95percent bend of the above in the ironmind or thin leathers bend.

With all due respect I would not consider my best bends regardless of wrap size in the same hemisphere as yours Gary.

- Aaron

[Booyah!!!]

"Personally i feel that the bending we do today regardless of style has no tradition what so ever now i no that things evolve put i feel that we still need to keep in a certain amount of tradition." <<< YES!!!

In my opinion, a KOAB in double leathers with crush pads, isn't near as impressive as single 10" suede or IMP. The biggest bends done belong to Gazza and Pat, and they weren't done with major wrapping sessions and double leathers out on the end. Pat does his stuff with no rubber bands, and in single 10" thin suede. Gazza bends a huge shiny with no wraps. I love seeing the hard work and dedication that those two guys have put forward. I'm not saying everybody else hasn't felt the pain, but those two are just outstanding.

I love this thread. I love the traditional ways that the guys who are my heroes used. Those guys weren't fakes as people claim, they were true traditional, strongMEN. The Atom's feats stand today as some of the most amazing things done. If anybody wants to doubt him there's a guy named Slim Farman who will let you know that it's true. One of the only strongman from back then who is still alive and kickin has the hammer records tied up and they won't be going anywhere for a very long time.

The traditional guys are the ones bending the biggest stuff, and doing the craziest feats with ease. My opinion is that traditional is the way to go.

Casey not necessarilly so put me and Pat in a contest environment with all the Big Dogs at there best Aaron,Ben,Mike,Paul,Chad,John,Adam etc and all useing there own favourite wraps anyone of these guys on there day can pull it out the bag now im not being arrogant or big headed here but reduce the pads to say ironmind wraps then i think all the above can still hit big steel but its reduced considerably the same for me i can on a good day hit a fantastic shiny in ironmind wraps or less i might even scare a psycho shiny i think Pat can probably hit 95 percent of his top bends in ironmind or thin leathers also but i would say that the other guys above are abit of the 95 percent mark if you compare there big wrap bends to there say ironmind wrap bends so what i am getting at here is a persons top bend in bigger wraps a BETTER + STRONGER bend than his say 75-95percent bend of the above in the ironmind or thin leathers bend.

With all due respect I would not consider my best bends regardless of wrap size in the same hemisphere as yours Gary.

- Aaron

Ditto for me Gary

[bencrush]

I was thinking about this thread again today because a guy at work wanted me to teach him how to bend nails. His goal is only a 60D and he's a strong guy, so I figured it wouldn't be any problem to teach him. I was just going to show him some bending videos since he's aware that I was healing up. I asked his opinion on what wraps out of the 10 pairs I brought with me over lunch he'd like to use...and he of course thought the thinner pads were most impressive. And at his request, I refrained from showing him any form tips and just wrapped a shiny 60D for him. That worked for me since I'm not testing fate right now anyway.

He put a decent kink--maybe 40 degrees--in that 60D over a 2 minute period. What style did he use? Surprisingly, it was a DO style that was above the pec line, but below the neck line. All wrists of course, like most of us when we were getting started. I asked him if he had seen some bending videos and he had. So that explains the DO most likely.

He had a good question though when I explained some of the discussions in this thread. He is a lifter, and said it's odd that most of us here on the board want to bend big steel in the style that a raw beginner would use. I told him it just means the average guy would be more impressed if they didn't see a lot of visible technique cues and that they'd consider it more of a strength feat than a technique feat. His question was would the same guys here (I'm included to some extent of course) want to duplicate the deadlift form of an absolute novice trying the deadlift without EVER seeing how to correctly perform the deadlift safely? Of course I said hell no to that. But I did see the parallel and it got me thinking.

Edit: forgot to mention he first chose my 2" long cut Ironmind pads, and I got a chuckle out of that. I said dang man, try the 8" long Ironmind pads instead. So he got the kink with cut Ironmind pads. He was able to bend a timber tie with the 2" long IMP and could only get it going with DU.

[foxyj75]

I have been thinking about this subject seriously, and I have to respect the olde time strongmen and their accomplishments. Very great stuff, some of which will never be duplicated. But, the only area where I have an issue is where it is said that we will never out-do them and that we should try to emulate them as much as possible. I disagree. Did they have guts and proven training principles? Sure. Can we learn something from them? Certainly. Should we limit our training to ONLY what they did, and never hope to surpass their feats? NEVER!! The olde time guys wouldn't have wanted us to do that. They were always looking for a better/bigger feat, and were always one-upping each other. Just because one era ends is no reason for a new one not to start.

I don't know about the rest of you benders here, but I wanna see how far I can push the envelope, double leather or not. I definitely think 10'' singles, IM's, 2''x2'''s, ect. have their place, uses, and advantages/disadvantages. But can't you say the same for big wraps? If small pads are like a sniper, targeting the wrist, grip and fingers, then big pads are like carpet bombing, not only hitting those things(to a lesser degree), but also all the big and little muscles in the torso and arms that are pertinent to bending. Why in the world would you not want to use both to hit everything possible, from every angle possible? Isn't that kinda like a powerlifter only working his arms and not the rest of his body? With the whole thing strong and solid, his performance can only be benefited.

Concerning the styles, I think each has it's merit, and is worth incorporating into anybody's training regimen. Following a discussion with Justiceislost a couple weeks ago, I actually plan on incorporating some different styles into my training, and maybe even ditch a bunch of wrap for a few bends every now and then. Now I don't agree that the pain that goes along with minimal padding is a requirement for a "true" bend. I have nothing against pain in training, sometimes it just goes along with the territory. For example, I regularly rip huge chunks of skin off my fingers on the crushdown of fat pad bends . I just rub chalk into em' and go on. But, I don't think that you HAVE to inflict massive pain upon yourself to feel that you genuinely killed a piece of steel. It's your preference, what you like. Not necessarily my or anyone else's like.

But enough about wraps. Who's to say which style has more merit than the others? The olde timers? No disrespect, but the old styles were all they ever knew or did. Of course they would say those styles were best. The top guys now? LOTS of DO(and lots of fat pads), some DU and Rev. in there. Whereas the trend years ago was Rev, DU or maybe Slim, now it's overwhelmingly DO. Times change, and so do styles and preferences. I bet more than a few of the olde time guys would have given DO a shot if they would have had the chance. Probably in fat pads too. They were STRONGmen, and if it involved strength, I bet they would enjoy it. Not to mention killing bigger steel in the process! Everyone enjoys that. Strength is involved in every style, just in different aspects, and from different angles. You still have to be strong to bend big steel. Period.

So, long story short, I guess the strictest form is really up to your own interpretation; your goals, ambitions, and muscles/areas you wish to work. With those specified, then I think that the strictest style can be more easily obtained. Just some thoughts from a decent bender in the new era.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Foxman

[bencrush]

Very well said Jeremiah!

[John Beatty]

I don't rank myslf really close to the top, mainly due to my inconsistency. I'm a big contest adrenaline guy. I have never even attempted a 5/16 square prior to the BBB this year. Never even wrapped one. All my bends prior to the BBB have been in 4" x 12" leather, most in the same set of leather I've been using for the last 2 years. I tried the IM wraps over those the last few weeks before the BBB because my middle fingers were totally chewed from actually bending regularly. I can't approach Gary's stuff in any wrap, nor most of the other top guys, especially without a comp to give me extra adrenaline. But to date, only my 6" Edgin & 5/16 square have been in double wraps. I like then for protecting my hands, but don't like the feel, prefer just the single.

Really, though, I agree with a bunch of the guys, I want to bend the toughest steel I can regardless of form/wraps, but I'd also like to become proficient at all forms, and play with wrap size to see what I can accomplish. So, I guess I'm on both sides of the line.

[Booyah!!!]

Awesome read Jeremiah

[diamond]

http://www.cyberpump.com/gallery/album166

[bencrush]

http://www.cyberpump.com/gallery/album166

Dave was (and probably still is) a superb bender! I still love the Red cert video where he just kind of nonchalantly folds the Ironmind pads around the Red like he's putting a hot dog between two buns.

[Bob Lipinski]

The old time guys, and I lump Don Larkin in there, did what they did and had fun with it. There was little or no competition. They didn't do what they did because it was "pure" or whatever, they did it because that is how they thought it should be done.

Out of the "old timers", I know Don Larkin the best. I know that he would like to see what guys could bend in the wraps that he used, but he doesn't begrudge anybody for how they bend now. Anyone at MGC 5 knows that. However, from how I know Don, if guys were whipping his ass bending, Don would wanna be the best at the game with the rules you have to play with.

Guys like Don had the disadvantage of having no competition. From anything I have seen, when Don was good at short steel bending he was likely the best in the world, no exaggeration. He was bending 80d's when a 60 was something special. I imagine other strongmen were in the same boat.

There is no excuse now. Put up or shut up. Excuses are excuses. The few big benders who use big pads and who give a shit about bending in smaller pads have done nifty things. You can whine about big pads or bend bigger steel. Gazza may talk about purity in bending, but he is still bending big steel and not talking crap about those nipping at his heels.

[gazza]

http://www.cyberpump.com/gallery/album166

This is what im getting at lots of people love how dave just as Ben says nonchalentaly wraps up the red and boom lots admiring this type of bending yet nobodys practising it why?

[Bob Lipinski]

Hahahahha Gary not everyone is that good! I like minimal padded bending here and there, but I can only do a 60d! No point in showing a video of that.

It is cool to show akward stuff here and there, but unless there is a standard many people won't strive for it. And why should they? Who wants to be substandard but hey I am hardcore oldschool etc? Guys like you are good enough to do amazing stuff in unusual ways, guys like me are struggling to be mediocre with every advantage in the book!

[dimmers]

this thread reminds me of something i hear in golf quite a lot...

a lot of very good golfers, say that to play golf the 'proper' way, or the 'pure' way, you should only use bladed golf irons. Most of your average golfers today play with large oversized golf clubs that allow a 'not-so-good' golf swing get the ball airborn with some decent amount of distance. If your average golfer was to use a bladed club (like most of the pro's) they wouldn't be able to get around the golf course (hence, no fun!).

I like to play with forged blades, because i feel like i'm getting more out of my golf. I agree with most golf shop professionals, in that these clubs are normally just used by Pro's, but the satisfaction i get when hitting a 'pure' golf shot with one of these clubs is something else!!!! i also believe it has improved my golf game no end, as i've had to make sure i hit the sweet spot of the club face more often than not, compared with the chunky fat oversized golf club that most of your average club golfers use.

i guess the point i'm making is, most people these days haven't got the time to practise and get good at something to a level they're going to enjoy. They just simply don't have the time (unless you're getting paid for it and you're a pro). So if bending in bigger pads with a certain style is going to get you enjoyable results (and its within the current rules) then people are going to do it.

Take the golf club manafacturers for example, they make clubs that are within the rules, but push the boundaries to make the game more accessable and easier to play for mr/mrs/miss joe/jane average by making bigger golf clubs, with more forgiveness, and a larger sweet spot to make the ball go further!

I imagine if Nike made bending wraps, they'd be the biggest/ baddest/ fattest / most comfortable pads in the world!!! (within the rules of course).

JUST BEND IT

[Tim71]

Great discusion!

First off, I agree about Don Larkin. When it was thought that John B was the only one who could bend a red, there is no doubt in my mind Don could have obliterated it. His 80ds are a MUCH tougher unbraced bend. Also, from what I hear Don didn't begrudge anyone else for bending his 80ds with styles other than what he used, even though his style has to require an insane ammount of grip and wrist along with about everthing else. Class act.

Dave Ostlunds bends. WOOOOW! Man that guy is strong with that style. Looking at his wrists like that just kills me. I love strict DU bending but I've never been able to work past this nagging sharp pain in both wrists. Looks cool though. I'd be thrilled to bend a tough 60d like that. BTW, how tall is Dave? Looks like a sizable guy.

Like has been said, ideally I'd like to get proficient will all the styles and thickness' of padding.

Later,

Tim

[Tim71]

Anybody ever have .323 drill rod cal'd? Just watched those incredible videos again and boy that definately qualifies as strict bending!

Had he stayed with it and "adapted" to the changing times, I'd bet he would have bent some incredible steel. He obviously had an incredible crush too.

Tim

[gerryg]

http://www.cyberpump.com/gallery/album166

I just tried that DU bend(same wrap job) with a IM blue, ouch! No go!

[gazza]

Hahahahha Gary not everyone is that good! I like minimal padded bending here and there, but I can only do a 60d! No point in showing a video of that.Bob my reference to Daves bending was not meant that people have to be able to do what Dave did those are still world class bends done in that style with that type of wrapping i meant people should try it with easier stock

Regarding your i can only do a 60d in minimal padding that still impresses the hell outa me thats still an advanced bend in a hanky or wash cloth.

It is cool to show akward stuff here and there, but unless there is a standard many people won't strive for it. And why should they? Who wants to be substandard but hey I am hardcore oldschool etc? Guys like you are good enough to do amazing stuff in unusual ways, guys like me are struggling to be mediocre with every advantage in the book!

Bending is a fantastic hobby i try to enducate rather than teach people the different ways of bending and the older and more bending i do the more i keep going back to my roots why? because of tradition yes but also because in my own heart i know that for me a big bend say a moab shiny in double wraps will never in my eyes be the same as a Fantastic shiny in ironmind or small leathers why because of the pain yes and the small leathersyes but more importantly to me i can look any of the not many traditional benders or old timers in the eye and think you know that i earned that because they have been there with those same type of wraps etc.

Ive been fortunate enough to find something that im not to bad at and that ive bend in most styles with most type of wraps some half decent steel yet i reckon you could ask Big Steve,Greg + Dave,Pat,Slim,

Don,Adam etc people i consider who would advocate bending a certain way over the actual size of the bar and wraps and get it done at all costs other types Now these men above still hold onto tradition and i bet that if asked most if not all of these guys would aprove my Fantastic Shiny in those 5 x 5inch wraps over say a Moab Shiny regardless of wraps.

Ive watched videos of these guys bending and they all use a certain way/style of bending and a certain wrap thickness ive also watched Big Steve in person bend and the same thing applies these are the guys i look upto despite having run ins with 1 or 2 they are still the same traditinal top end benders i get Inspiration from and want to emulate more than others the same guys that DARE I say it would if everything was equal would still be top of the pile

Why do horseshoe benders when they become proficient with certain shoes then bend them same shoes with no padding on the leg and then barehanded is it because to them its a harder feat or do they like me get off on the pain

[justiceislost1988]

Hahahahha Gary not everyone is that good! I like minimal padded bending here and there, but I can only do a 60d! No point in showing a video of that.Bob my reference to Daves bending was not meant that people have to be able to do what Dave did those are still world class bends done in that style with that type of wrapping i meant people should try it with easier stock

Regarding your i can only do a 60d in minimal padding that still impresses the hell outa me thats still an advanced bend in a hanky or wash cloth.

It is cool to show akward stuff here and there, but unless there is a standard many people won't strive for it. And why should they? Who wants to be substandard but hey I am hardcore oldschool etc? Guys like you are good enough to do amazing stuff in unusual ways, guys like me are struggling to be mediocre with every advantage in the book!

Bending is a fantastic hobby i try to enducate rather than teach people the different ways of bending and the older and more bending i do the more i keep going back to my roots why? because of tradition yes but also because in my own heart i know that for me a big bend say a moab shiny in double wraps will never in my eyes be the same as a Fantastic shiny in ironmind or small leathers why because of the pain yes and the small leathersyes but more importantly to me i can look any of the not many traditional benders or old timers in the eye and think you know that i earned that because they have been there with those same type of wraps etc.

Ive been fortunate enough to find something that im not to bad at and that ive bend in most styles with most type of wraps some half decent steel yet i reckon you could ask Big Steve,Greg + Dave,Pat,Slim,

Don,Adam etc people i consider who would advocate bending a certain way over the actual size of the bar and wraps and get it done at all costs other types Now these men above still hold onto tradition and i bet that if asked most if not all of these guys would aprove my Fantastic Shiny in those 5 x 5inch wraps over say a Moab Shiny regardless of wraps.

Ive watched videos of these guys bending and they all use a certain way/style of bending and a certain wrap thickness ive also watched Big Steve in person bend and the same thing applies these are the guys i look upto despite having run ins with 1 or 2 they are still the same traditinal top end benders i get Inspiration from and want to emulate more than others the same guys that DARE I say it would if everything was equal would still be top of the pile

Why do horseshoe benders when they become proficient with certain shoes then bend them same shoes with no padding on the leg and then barehanded is it because to them its a harder feat or do they like me get off on the pain

I'm 100% with you Gazza! A man called the best short steel bender in the world around here is still oh so humble! I always used to get spit on when I said that kid of stuff around here . Tradition is where it's at! I can't wait to see you do the MOAB in singles Gazza. It will happen soon.

[pawel r]

Bending is a fantastic hobby (...)

I'm 100% agree with you Gazza !!!!

[justiceislost1988]

Never forgiven nor forgotten . I'm a Christian man I hold no grudges but pray for those who do .

[justiceislost1988]

All good Josh .

[TKtheGreek]

Can someone do me a favor and define: "Traditional Bending"

[AdamTGlass]

Can someone do me a favor and define: "Traditional Bending"

Teddy i know what your getting at

Traditional would be the old way. The only reason anyone here even knows anything about steel bending is because of the Strongman tradition. The Mighty Atom, Slim, Zas, Apollon, we can all sit here and name them off, their names are in the history of the iron game.

Not one person here was inspired to bend by Arnold, Dorian or any other body builder (may be Reg Park?)

Traditional strongmen did their bends in wash cloths, or hankys. I have seen hundreds and hundreds of old pictures and i have yet to see any other material used.

If you bend steel, you started because of you were interested by seeing the old timers, or you were interested from some one like John Brookfield, Dennis Rogers, Stanless Steel, or Don Larkin. Maybe you have started with in the last few years and it was from someone who posts here now like Aaron, Ben or Gazza.

The contemporay DO style is very new in the history of bending, before Gavin Holle and Pat Povilaitis certified with it no one else was doing. considering it a new skilled groove it is no suprise. DU is the oldest style i have seen pics of (Atom doing it in the 1940's) and it much more intutive. Hand a person a nail and their natural inclination is to bend it slim style or DU. I have yet to see one person attempt to bend DO without being told to try it.

That does not mean in any way shape or form it is bad, should not be used or anything like that. My point is this--For as long as men have done this, they used minimal padding and maximum wrist power. To exclude it from your training is just excluding a lot of strength you COULD have.

I really do view it the same way as i look at modern day Powerlifting. We see men who are now benching HUGE numbers with shirts. Does using a shirt make you weak? If you think benching over 600/700 even 800 lbs is weak. A 700 shirted bencher is good for 580-630 raw, which is damn strong in my mind. Same thing here (IMO) we see guys who kill huge steel with a lot of padding, what is their "raw" looking like. Do i think that means drop down to barehanded like some one mentioned? Hell no. There is no need to do that. I think bending in Ironmind pads and really thin leather is a good thing and it makes you stronger

Teddy you posted a video killing a red with one IM pad this week. You showed real power with that and it was awesome . How many people can do that? Not very many, may be 20-25 people? Your obviously in touch with what traditional bending is about.

Edited November 28, 2008 by SSGGLASS

[TKtheGreek]

Can someone do me a favor and define: "Traditional Bending"

Teddy i know what your getting at

Traditional would be the old way. The only reason anyone here even knows anything about steel bending is because of the Strongman tradition. The Mighty Atom, Slim, Zas, Apollon, we can all sit here and name them off, their names are in the history of the iron game.

Not one person here was inspired to bend by Arnold, Dorian or any other body builder (may be Reg Park?)

Traditional strongmen did their bends in wash cloths, or hankys. I have seen hundreds and hundreds of old pictures and i have yet to see any other material used.

If you bend steel, you started because of you were interested by seeing the old timers, or you were interested from some one like John Brookfield, Dennis Rogers, Stanless Steel, or Don Larkin. Maybe you have started with in the last few years and it was from someone who posts here now like Aaron, Ben or Gazza.

The contemporay DO style is very new in the history of bending, before Gavin Holle and Pat Povilaitis certified with it no one else was doing. considering it a new skilled groove it is no suprise. DU is the oldest style i have seen pics of (Atom doing it in the 1940's) and it much more intutive. Hand a person a nail and their natural inclination is to bend it slim style or DU. I have yet to see one person attempt to bend DO without being told to try it.

That does not mean in any way shape or form it is bad, should not be used or anything like that. My point is this--For as long as men have done this, they used minimal padding and maximum wrist power. To exclude it from your training is just excluding a lot of strength you COULD have.

I really do view it the same way as i look at modern day Powerlifting. We see men who are now benching HUGE numbers with shirts. Does using a shirt make you weak? If you think benching over 600/700 even 800 lbs is weak. A 700 shirted bencher is good for 580-630 raw, which is damn strong in my mind. Same thing here (IMO) we see guys who kill huge steel with a lot of padding, what is their "raw" looking like. Do i think that means drop down to barehanded like some one mentioned? Hell no. There is no need to do that. I think bending in Ironmind pads and really thin leather is a good thing and it makes you stronger

Teddy you posted a video killing a red with one IM pad this week. You showed real power with that and it was awesome . How many people can do that? Not very many, may be 20-25 people? Your obviously in touch with what traditional bending is about.

Thank you for taking the time to write that out Adam, what everyone was writing in this thread about wrists strength and non DO styles makes complete sense to me now.

Sidenote sry to Gazza about what i wrote about the old time strong men, I was really igonrant on the subject when i wrote that and the only thing i had to go on was those vids. I didnt know about the pictues of them bending or that their bends were well documented and pretty much talked out my ass.