Razmadze Vs Denis Cyplenkov

[blueviper42]

What is the best way to train the tendons for armwrestling? Training you can do in the gym for instance, I know armwrestling itself is the best, but is there anything you can do off the table to help tendon strength?

[raikkonen]

It's true you need both of muscles and tendons to excell to the limit. But the American gym conciousness alwasy based on muscles and to a extended degree so is the rest of society. IMO dynamic motion need more muscle strength while isometric tension require more of tendon power.

In this link:

you see The legend John W. vs Bruce W. both were accomplished AWer, but JOhn W. always get the upper hand. In the back ground standing and big is Les Rollman I used to come to his home in Whittier S. Cal to practice . Back to the point! since both pros have tendon power because of their AW carreer. But Bruce is way bigger than John W. in muscle department, and that failed to help him against John W. John W. gave up a lot of muscle power and yet prevailed. That sidepressure hit put a lot of tension to the inner elbow. The only way the joint did not go "pop" was because the tendon and ligaments hold it together. If that side hit was on any one who was not an AWer, his upper bone/joint would snap like a twig. I witnessed once Gary Ray snapped an upper bone of an AWer who had under 3 years of AW experience with side hit just like in the video. BTW, I think John B. once said tendon and bone takes about 3 years to adapt to AW . In fact I think sidepressure is the sole property of AWers. No one else in the world has it naturally or you must be a freak

Tendon training is something most of us have a vague ideas what it is. You do what you do in AW training and sometime you win sometime you don't. BUt the winner needs not to know about tendon knowledge to make it work. But I am a fitness trainer with background in martial art. For me it is fanscinating to learn about all this tendon/ligament stuff. My theory is just that: an studied theory. I have golfer elbow (inner elbow tendonnitis) for about 3 years before I decided to use my theory of tendon training to train my inner elbow and now it mostly gone ((95% or more) .

Speaking of tendonnitis: Are you awared that most the pains associated with AW are tendonnitis? Tennis elbow is another. Wrist tendonnitis (john Brzenk's) Do you wonder why the tendon bear the grunt of the stress that lead to tendonitis? YES, bicep do rupture in AW like in the case of Tim Parker and more recently Richard L. But it seems always ruptures at the point where the muscle connected to the tendon, not in the middle of the muscle belly. But you don't have to believe my theory!

I was joking about Brainiac!

no i do believe it im a fitness instructor myself, obviously i dont have as much knowledge about tendons as you it seems but i just got mixed up with one of your points. i have had tenonnitis in my elbow too every AW gets it i would of thought.

[raikkonen]

What is the best way to train the tendons for armwrestling? Training you can do in the gym for instance, I know armwrestling itself is the best, but is there anything you can do off the table to help tendon strength?

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=r1h-rUWEmsk devon talkin about training side preasure. when i saw this, i thought exactly what he did. your tendons and ligaments can be very small and only connect mucle to bone, or bone to bone. there is nothing really in the gym that can make your ligaments and tendons stronger in your elbow. you really just need to devolop it on the table. that is what i found out anyway.

[mithras]

Interestingly in that example video, John W is using a similar device to the one Cyplenkovs trainer was using, a strap to stop his arm opening up. It wasn't in tension for most of the matches however.

[jad]

My impressions of the device are it would be useful to train sidepressure and more importantly it shows how far good backpressure can take you. To clarify, I'm not talking about loading your opponent across the table but having enough to keep your lock. Since Dennis couldn't open this guy's arm up he was having to try and beat him with pure side pressure. In other words, if you can keep your lock, which I know is a BIG 'if', then you're going to be a handful on the table.

[G-Man]

Is this the same guy? Looks like him I think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNh-eOyQQTw

He has cyplenkov and voevoda videos in his profile as well

LOL! I should change my profile to read that I am from Russia ...

Did this significantly help your backpressure? I was thinking about implementing this.

I don't know as I have not been on the table. My backpressure and side pressure certainly felt like it was stronger when I was doing those following maybe six or seven sets of heavy pull-ups.

Also, I cracked a rib at the end of August so I've only been training cardio and some grip work - it will probably be a couple more months before I am training heavy again.

Edited September 26, 2008 by G-Man

[StalwartSentinel]

What is the best way to train the tendons for armwrestling? Training you can do in the gym for instance, I know armwrestling itself is the best, but is there anything you can do off the table to help tendon strength?

Usually heavy, short-range movements.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson18.htm

[fightertrainer]

What is the best way to train the tendons for armwrestling? Training you can do in the gym for instance, I know armwrestling itself is the best, but is there anything you can do off the table to help tendon strength?

Usually heavy, short-range movements.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson18.htm

Thanks for the link. I 'll try to answer both of these statements/question. First in lthe link what they talked about tendons I agree. But I don't necessarily agree with the method of tendon training. It looks like to me a typical bodybuilding program of reps and sets scheme. Bodybuilders are know for their muscle strength not tendon, nor are strongmen. Back the statement of tendon lack of blood supply because the way body built. IMO, it takes a lot longer than 6-12 reps to really burn the tendon with ANY exercise. For ex: 1st stage: if you do bicep curl and get tired after 6-12 reps your muscle felt the burn and pumped up but the tendon itself is not yet there at that stage. 2nd stage: immediatedly after the curl pick up a lighter weight (or cable) and try to do wrist curl with your bicep still supporting the resistant (arm still bent 90 degree) wrist curl as fast as you can you will feel the lower bicep tendon burn near the elbow joint. Now when you can't wrist curl any more just hold the resistant isomerticly for more time. The bicep tendon will burn even more a long with the muscle of course. The 1st stage focus on the muscle while 2nd stage goes to the tendon on same group. I like to 2nd stage better I usually do just that. It feel like you are wrist curl while holding your opponent arm at 90 degree. This is one of the methods I use. The burn is right the bicep tendon and inner elbow depends on whther or not you turn or face it directly. If you can not wrist curl the weight the bicep can handle, then that is why you need to curl first if that was the case. Though I can generally wrist curl most of the weight my bicep can hold

Back to the tendon train philosophy and protocols. This is really tricky part. By observing all movements of life, I 've come to conclusion that tendon training can be done with either light weight or heavy weight. Depend on whether or not you use dynamic or isometric style. But it always comes down to one important objective: Making the tendon exhausted before it responds to training.

Light weight training observation: Watch a piano player runs on the keys fast and repeatedly for hours effortlessly. Now if you ever play it at a beginner, you know your fingers get tired quickly. What is in the finger but mostly tendon and ligament? You can have most amazing hand strength but that light movement tire it out in no time. Finger tendons are not there yet. The classical trained piano player in my band can bend nail 1st time he tried it. Same thing will happen to a beginner guitar player. While the pro can hold a difficult chords with easy and a guy with strongest grip can barely make any sound articulatedly. At times fingers cramped up bad. My conclusion: light motions at high speed and super hi-reps will evetually get your tendon too. In AW John B. use a light gripper and just go super fast for 100 of reps everyday to exhaustion work tendon too. A pro dancer who trains for years also get the body tendon powerful to look elegant while dancing. Especially in ballet and ice dancing. Lifting a partner with ease while moving and yet himself never built big. A bodybuilder can also lift a woman in the air but IMO he can never be elegant or graceful just because his tendon lack of the kind of power and coordination. The muscle power can also lift a human but it takes tendon too to make it look easy

This is only my observation thru the years. I will be back with heay weight training for tendon theory and slow motion training for tendon. Remember this is only a theory of mine... boring or not. It's Friday and I am hungry, I am out!

[blueviper42]

That was one of the most informative posts I have read in a while. I will definitely try those ideas out! Particularly wrist curling with locked bicep after curl to get more tendon activation. Great idea!

[fightertrainer]

Yes , that wrist curl like that definitely burn right at the bottom of bicep muscle where it connected to the tendon. Each tendon group is tricky to train to burn. If the cable handle is high above your shouler, grap it to bring it down 'till your arm bent 90 degree or so. With your forearm in vertical Position and wrist curl until it's goose necked high reps of 25 or more . Or just hold it down for time after 20 reps. This was how I've treated my golfer elbow tendonnitis. I use light weight for awhile before I go heavy. I also train my inner elbow with cable sidepressure. In this method I can do it straight wrist or cupped wrist or wrist curl while turning it sidepressure. If you have no elbow pain you can do it with your wrist flopped open. IMO train your tendon in shortened position is how you cure the pain (cupped wrist) Use your imagination to figure it out how to contract the muscle/tendon short before moving against the resistant.

Heavy tendon training: this is the best example for gym style tendon training

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN_Cn8xJWWM . there's very little bicep movement beyond 100 degree with torso tilted to the working side. That what I do too. As we all know his elbow lock is top notch in the world of AW. As proven here:

As soon as you move dynamicly, the tension go to your muscle more than tendon. Of course, real AW is uncomparable

[kyle102887]

posted by fightertrainer ' AW is mostly tendon power sport. That's why Allen Fisher, Coby Millers..many other pro Awer champ excells in this sport.'

the point i thought u was making was that guys like fischer and rhodes were so strong mainly cause of there tendons, which yes is needed, but the tendons merely hold the muscle to the bone. the tendons cant contract, only hold, it is the msucles that contract. it wouldnt matter if you had the strongest tendons in the world in your body and albow, cause without the msucle, your arm is going no where. i thought you was stating that tendon is more imporitant than muscle, which i believe is totaly false, both are required =)

Weak tendon and ligament are a limiting factor for muscle strength. The stronger your tendons are at "holding", the stronger your muscles can contract. The stronger your support structure is, the better your muscles can perform.

[fightertrainer]

I copied and paste Engin Terzi quotes from NE board

"anyone can make mistake in predictions esspecially about someone like Ciplenkov who did not pull a lot against the best pullers.

while talking about Denis beating Pushkar we must remember that Denis beat Pushkar only a few weeks before the EAC.people who knows about world wide armwrestling,will know what i am talking about.

i just think that Devon can get out of Denis' hand but even if Denis' wrist handles Devon's outside move i still think that this will not be so easy and this will cause the match to stop somewhere and Devon's endurance will provide him at least 4 wins in a supermatch even though Denis may win 2 matches by the advantage of his incredible bicep strength.but as i guess that the matches will not be easy i believe that Devon will be the victorius because muscle does not have the endurance of joint pressure and Denis seems like not knowing how to apply any joint pressure.any close competetion of joint vs muscle will result joint strength to win.JMO

all of these are opinions but one thing is a fact and this is Devon is a "proven" best right hand puller in the world. "

Read carfully about joint vs muscle strength. Joint strength meaning ligaments and tendons (attached to bone) power.

[monkeypaws]

But, you overlook that he said "any CLOSE competition between joint and muscle...joint wins"

It has to be comparable in strength department, this is like saying that great technique is all you need to be a great armwrestler.

I am a firm believer that while joints and tendons are very important ,an armwrestler would never go anywhere without sufficent MUSCLE strength.

Watch Devon's talk on sidepressure at in the hook.........he stays away from sidepressure training and anything that is too joint related.........but he focuses mainly on making his muscles stronger......seems to work for him.

I work static holds.....and my MUSCLES are what is keeping my arm in position.....not joints and tendons.

Without muscles you are just bone that can never contract, sure I know that you are only as strong as your weakest link and if you have weak tendons and joints you will be limited.......but that doesn't mean that one is more important than the other......it is like saying that a strong back is more beneficial than a strong hand...........they are all important if you want to go to the top ANY weakness is exposed and becomes a factor.

Let's not downplay how much muscle is involved in this sport and that it is equally as important as the rest of the package.

Point being.....you need adequate muscle power to move an object..........muscle first........then if your muscles are plenty strong, it goes to your tendons, then joints, then bones to find the weak link............but without adequate muscle strength the bus stops right there.

[raikkonen]

But, you overlook that he said "any CLOSE competition between joint and muscle...joint wins"

It has to be comparable in strength department, this is like saying that great technique is all you need to be a great armwrestler.

I am a firm believer that while joints and tendons are very important ,an armwrestler would never go anywhere without sufficent MUSCLE strength.

Watch Devon's talk on sidepressure at in the hook.........he stays away from sidepressure training and anything that is too joint related.........but he focuses mainly on making his muscles stronger......seems to work for him.

I work static holds.....and my MUSCLES are what is keeping my arm in position.....not joints and tendons.

Without muscles you are just bone that can never contract, sure I know that you are only as strong as your weakest link and if you have weak tendons and joints you will be limited.......but that doesn't mean that one is more important than the other......it is like saying that a strong back is more beneficial than a strong hand...........they are all important if you want to go to the top ANY weakness is exposed and becomes a factor.

Let's not downplay how much muscle is involved in this sport and that it is equally as important as the rest of the package.

Point being.....you need adequate muscle power to move an object..........muscle first........then if your muscles are plenty strong, it goes to your tendons, then joints, then bones to find the weak link............but without adequate muscle strength the bus stops right there.

i think what engin gets at, is basically devons joints, even though he doesnt train them directly, are tougher and in better condition than denis's. cause devon has been pulling logner than denis maybe, hes pulled the top and beat them all. and just doing that, just like john brzenk does, will also strengthen the joints.

muscle is what moves your arm, but if you come up against a great force, and your joints are not up to par with your msucle, then you will get problems. when i first started training for Aw abit more seriusly, i used a pully, and after tha first session, had alot of pain in my elbow. i would go balls out, but because it was first time i had directly trained them tendons and ligaments, i pushed them to far. when denis comes up against someone thats a fast hitter, he may have problems.

[fightertrainer]

Monkeypaws, You don't grown up thinking 'bout tendon training culture like myself my whole life. YOu said you do static hold, that IMO that is tendon training. BUt if you switch to dynamic motion of the same muscle group you will utilize muscle belly strength more than tendon. True that your bicep also hold the weight while your perform static hold. But in general you can hold a lot more with static hold then you can curl (about 30% more) If you 're fresh to begin then do static hold you will realize your joint and the bottom of the bicep (bicep curl) muscle near the elbow begin to feel the burn more than the bicep belly. While curling the bicep get tired quickly, static hold takes longer to burn. Matt (150lbs) in my gym who can curl on Hammer curl machine with more than 3x45 plates easy dynamicly. I don't do that but I can stretch him out very easy in a hook, not even close in my favor. My lock is just stronger than his lock. IMO my koint lock is pure ligament and tendon power. YOu forget the important part of human dynamic vs isometric power, if the movement requires the muscle to lengthen then contract (dynamic) if mostly muscle. If movement requires mostly locking up the joint and using body English to turn it over then tendon and ligament play more (though muscle still there helping no matter what). BUt a successfull AWer doesn't need to know about all these theories to make it work. Just as a chef doesn't need to know about chemical make up of ingredients down to molecules level to make the food taste good (a chemist knows more but doesn't mean he can make a great chef) I know more about tendon theory, but don't get me wrong! that doesn't neccesarily makes me a world champs. Afterall this is paper theory part of my job as a trainer.

[darthsith19]

On the NE board, Artem Klimenko said that Cyplenkov got 20% stronger than when he beat Pushkar. That's kinda scary if you ask me.

[blueviper42]

Everyone from Europe is going to say Cyplenkov is the strongest, everyone from the North Americas (Canada, United States) is going to say Devon or John will beat him right and Travis left. Everyone will be biased according to where they are from.

[StalwartSentinel]

youl all see it but lets talk about it.

http://www.ironworld.ru/iwtube/tube/cat.ph...638&op=vote

denis loses on his left hand, although his trainer has abit of help but still, shows maybe weakness in denis?

Where can you get those straps?

[fightertrainer]

youl all see it but lets talk about it.

http://www.ironworld.ru/iwtube/tube/cat.ph...638&op=vote

denis loses on his left hand, although his trainer has abit of help but still, shows maybe weakness in denis?

Where can you get those straps?

YOu can get strap at any Fabric store. I bought some 2" wide few years ago. For velcro I hired a seamstress to sew it for me. Wal-mart may have both strap and velcro. I think jumpstretch band (green or blue) works just as well.