Larrat 6-0 Vs Brzenk

[mithras]

Josh, I think the point Fightertrainer is making is that he obviously isn't recovered from his gamut of recent matches, which I'd agree with. When you're competing at his level, taking on almost anyone, anytime, you're going to build up injuries that won't go away with two weeks rest - like this niggling wrist issue he seems to have.

I've sustained pulls and aches with arm wrestling that can take a month to go away, so I can only imagine what it's like at John's level. A slightly weak link in the chain can make all the difference when arm wrestling someone close to our stronger than you. Anyway John's a big boy, I'm sure he knows what he's doing and you can't win all the time, he probably doesn't care as much as people think about losing, especially considering he went into this not even expecting to win.

Part of the sport definitely seems to be jumping in at the deep end when you're uncertain of your chances, and John's certainly proved he's man enough to take on anyone, no matter the odds.

[fightertrainer]

2 weeks rest after training is ok. But 2 weeks after a tournament is a different story. It's safe to say that DEvon L. is much fresher at the match than John B. don't you agree? After 40s you certainly need longer rest than in your 30s. If I was John I would rest for the next 2-3 months.

[darthsith19]

2 weeks rest after training is ok. But 2 weeks after a tournament is a different story. It's safe to say that DEvon L. is much fresher at the match than John B. don't you agree? After 40s you certainly need longer rest than in your 30s. If I was John I would rest for the next 2-3 months.

2-3 months? I can agree with mithras that if it is more than normal armwrestling aches and pains, by all means, take time off, but seriously? How is a tournament different that at practice? At a tournament you are (hopefully) winning in 5 seconds or less - if not then you're probably losing that quickly, considering that most matches are over relatively quickly. Even if you do get a couple long matches, alright then. On the other hand, at practice, you pull like 50 time with each hand and aren't always going for a quick pin, it's way more exhausting if you're going all-out, which you should be if you are able to. When the local guy here in MN hosts tournaments, after it is over about half the contenders stay after and keep pulling, practicing, and other people in the crowd come pull, too. After a tournament in Rochester last month I pulled afterwards for an hour at least and a bunch of other guys stayed and pulled, too, obviously (or who would I have been pulling with?).

mithras, yeah John is pulling with a LOT more force than any of us BUT he also has a lot stronger of tendons and stuff, too.

[mithras]

Hi Josh,

if you've got a serious "niggling" injury from any kind of sport, sometimes you just need to take time away from competition and recuperate, through light training or otherwise, regardless of how "strong" you are at your chosen sport or not. I don't necessarily agree with what I see as your assessment that "2 weeks" is enough to be "fully rested" for this type of competition either, especially considering all the variables. I pretty much agree with fightertrainer to the letter on this one.

In armwrestling, when you're pulling against the best and aiming to be the best you're not going to be as competitive as you could be if something is holding you back, such as this wrist issue of Johns which everyone keeps mentioning. It's undoubtedly affecting him right now, but this doesn't mean he won't just heal up, train and then come back stronger, or do whatever he chooses to do. He's been beaten by people who appear unbeatable or ridiculously stronger than him in the past then come back and beat them. The fact that so many people avoid a rematch after beating him once speaks volumes about his ability to read his opponents and learn how to beat them.

Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to speak with John after the matches with Devon, but it'd probably be more fruitful for us to wait for his comments about the match and how he feels than guessing about what is or isn't right for him.

[smitty]

wasn't there a huge size difference?

[darthsith19]

wasn't there a huge size difference?

About 30-35 lbs.

Mithras, 2 weeks is more than enough time to rest from normal armwrestling aches and pains. I don't know if you read all of my last post of just the last sentence, but at the beginning I did agree with you that if the pain is more than "normal" armwrestling pain time should be taken off until you heal (or at least, time would need to be taken off for you to go back to full strength). But fightertrainer made it seem like 2 weeks of rest after a tournament is not enough time even if you are not injured/have pain beyond normal armwrestling pain. And I'll tell you now that I was at a tournament on Saturday and am nearly back to full strength already after 3 days, so my final thoughts are 2 weeks (even 1 week) is enough time to recover from normal armwrestling aches and pains, but not from injures or severe pains, or, as you put it, 'serious "niggling" pain'. With that I agree with you.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Josh H

[mithras]

Hi Josh,

please don't start bandying around suggestions that I'm not reading your posts, I am.

I really don't mean to be rude in any way shape or form, but what you've so far discovered and what suits YOU in your short time arm wrestling doesn't necessarily hold true for everyone else. Just because you've personally competed in a tournament and are fine after a few days isn't necessarily relevant to what we're talking about - John Brzenk vs Devon Larratt.

I don't mean to put words into Fightertrainers mouth, but I think you're oversimplifying what he was saying. If you're John Brzenk and about to go up against Devon Larratt, and carrying injuries, logically the more rest pre tournament the better.

Anyway instead of us flogging this dead horse, perhaps Bob Brown can let us know his thoughts on the matter as he's got far more knowledge.

As to the size difference Smitty, John was announced at 100kg ish, and Devon at 118kg, but he says he was actually 112kg pre match. Obviously he's a much bigger 'rangier' guy than John.

Edited September 16, 2008 by mithras

[darthsith19]

Hi Josh,

please don't start bandying around suggestions that I'm not reading your posts, I am.

I really don't mean to be rude in any way shape or form, but what you've so far discovered and what suits YOU in your short time arm wrestling doesn't necessarily hold true for everyone else. Just because you've personally competed in a tournament and are fine after a few days isn't necessarily relevant to what we're talking about - John Brzenk vs Devon Larratt.

I don't mean to put words into Fightertrainers mouth, but I think you're oversimplifying what he was saying. If you're John Brzenk and about to go up against Devon Larratt, and carrying injuries, logically the more rest pre tournament the better.

Anyway instead of us flogging this dead horse, perhaps Bob Brown can let us know his thoughts on the matter as he's got far more knowledge.

As to the size difference Smitty, John was announced at 100kg ish, and Devon at 118kg, but he says he was actually 112kg pre match. Obviously he's a much bigger 'rangier' guy than John.

Considering I was quoting fightertrainer, and not you, thinkng you may not have read my posts is justifiable, espeially when you seemed to have missed part of it. And fightertrainer specifically referred to being "burned out" and also said 2 weeks after practice is okay, but not after a tournament, which would have no releveance to John's wrist.

Also newer armwrestlers usually heal more slowly then people who have been doing it for a long time, because their bodies aren't used to it and theit tendons are not as developed, for example, me and this other guy trained with a 3rd guy and the 3rd guy had never practiced before and was sore for 3 weeks while we were fine to pull a tourney the next week. I trained with another guy who had never gone on a table before and invited him to another practice about 3-4 weeks later and he said no cause he was still sore. So talking regular aches and pains, 2 weeks is more than plenty.

[fightertrainer]

JOsh, in your opinion, who was fresher ? JOhn or Devon? And why? John injuries is an accummulation of matches IMO. The more he keep doing matches the more nagging injuries will pile up. I know for sure Devon was much much fresher of the two period. I can be careless about John veteran experience. It won't help you a thing if you keep piling it up with matches. Training people is my job day in and day out. I can see burn out in people very easy. And sooner or later that personal will get injured.

[raikkonen]

tbh, i would kinda expect these heavyweight guys to have more probloems with inuries. think how much more preasure they can apply so therefore putting on the tendons and ligaments, more so than lightweights, though any weigh can go flat out and sutain an inury and wear and tear.

lets see what your like after 25 years of being the best and how you arm feels.

josh h "So talking regular aches and pains, 2 weeks is more than plenty."

is it?

i dont think so. sometimes when i practyice i still be sore after 2 weeks. i dont thin kits uncomon.

Edited September 17, 2008 by raikkonen

[darthsith19]

On the ask John Brzenk webpage, John said he doens't even feel tendon pain / regular armwrestling pain anymore. Certainly Devon had the advantage of not having wrist problems and stuff. Most people have AW practice once a week, sometimes even twice, so I think it is quite uncommon to be sore for 2 weeks.

[mithras]

This thread brings to mind the words "flogging" and "dead horse"

[blueviper42]

Tendinitis can crop up no matter how experienced you are...and can take weeks or even months to go away. This might not be relevant, but sometimes you do need a long time before you are 100% ready again.

[raikkonen]

i saw watched this vid of the arnold classic or sommit, and john saying he was having problem with abit on tendonitus, and that was going into the match's.

go john! he will be back

[darthsith19]

You're right, with his wrist problems and tendonitis, 2 weeks wasn't enough for John to be fully healed.

[lifesnotfair]

From what I've read some people say, including some people close to John.. it is more important how healthy his wrist/arm is, than what his weight is. He was 95kg (209lbs) at last year's Zlotty where he beat Pushkar and Farid. Now pulling Devon he was 100kg (220lbs) but even his pulling partners were saying he wasn't feeling like the usual John.

[verdigriz]

Devon deserved it all...

[kyle102887]

You know what would be cool?

I would like to see John get some nutrition tips and help from Micheal Todd.

Cause I don't know how Johns diet is, but I think that if it isn't that great. It would be very beneficial to him to start eating kind of like a bodybuilder would. So that he can get the best out of his body. It makes such a big difference when your body is getting everything it needs. Inflammation goes down (or even goes away) strength and size sky rocket (especially if diet was poor prior). Energy and endurance are much better, if body Ph is kept in check you can reduce lactic acid build up in the muscles. Which would help him get a better contraction in his muscles....etc. etc....

Maybe Bob Brown can inform us of how Johns diet is? Or if John even wants a rematch......

Because I would love to see John come back better than ever. Maybe a change in diet is all it takes......

[darthsith19]

I read this on the ask John Brzenk pages. John said he used to eat like shit (not exact words) and his diet was composed of pizza and cookies. But now he eats more healthy (this is from the 90's). He also said he has tried many different supplements but said only Creatine worked but it made him gain weight so the strength gains were canceled out by that. Just fyi.

[lifesnotfair]

I read this on the ask John Brzenk pages. John said he used to eat like shit (not exact words) and his diet was composed of pizza and cookies. But now he eats more healthy (this is from the 90's). He also said he has tried many different supplements but said only Creatine worked but it made him gain weight so the strength gains were canceled out by that. Just fyi.

Bob Brown said a few times, when John was trying to gain weight, that he ate ice cream all the time, lol.

[jad]

You know what would be cool?

I would like to see John get some nutrition tips and help from Micheal Todd.

Cause I don't know how Johns diet is, but I think that if it isn't that great. It would be very beneficial to him to start eating kind of like a bodybuilder would. So that he can get the best out of his body. It makes such a big difference when your body is getting everything it needs. Inflammation goes down (or even goes away) strength and size sky rocket (especially if diet was poor prior). Energy and endurance are much better, if body Ph is kept in check you can reduce lactic acid build up in the muscles. Which would help him get a better contraction in his muscles....etc. etc....

Maybe Bob Brown can inform us of how Johns diet is? Or if John even wants a rematch......

Because I would love to see John come back better than ever. Maybe a change in diet is all it takes......

Short of preexisting medical condition (something like uncontrolled Diabetes) nutrition isn't going to effect lactic acid levels. Lactic acid build-up basically results from a lack of oxygen; oygen is the limiting factor or the bottle neck.

[kyle102887]

You know what would be cool?

I would like to see John get some nutrition tips and help from Micheal Todd.

Cause I don't know how Johns diet is, but I think that if it isn't that great. It would be very beneficial to him to start eating kind of like a bodybuilder would. So that he can get the best out of his body. It makes such a big difference when your body is getting everything it needs. Inflammation goes down (or even goes away) strength and size sky rocket (especially if diet was poor prior). Energy and endurance are much better, if body Ph is kept in check you can reduce lactic acid build up in the muscles. Which would help him get a better contraction in his muscles....etc. etc....

Maybe Bob Brown can inform us of how Johns diet is? Or if John even wants a rematch......

Because I would love to see John come back better than ever. Maybe a change in diet is all it takes......

Short of preexisting medical condition (something like uncontrolled Diabetes) nutrition isn't going to effect lactic acid levels. Lactic acid build-up basically results from a lack of oxygen; oygen is the limiting factor or the bottle neck.

Yeah your right my mistake. I do know from experience that DOMS is greatly reduced when your ph is in check.