Secret Weapon

[Teemu I]

I just got a Secret Weapon and wrote a little something about in my blog and posted a photo of it as well, so I will not post my thoughts again here.

What I would like to hear is the experiences of it from the other people currently using it or having used it, however. I know there are old posts about the SW, but decided to create a new topic to hear some fresh thoughts.

Personally, I plan to work on it progressively and patiently for long enough time and build up the volume and loads slowly. I think it shows a very good promise as a training tool if used sensibly and although I'll be working hard with it, I do not intend to wreck my hands in the process.

Today, I filed the top handle a little and now it closes 5 mm tighter than CoC-grippers. I'm trying to do it very carefully as with slightly thinner handles I can't file that much.

Edited August 6, 2008 by Teemu I

[bigmatt]

Good luck. I want to do the same some day!

[Hubgeezer]

I have one. My daughter bought it from Joe Kinney around 2001, 2002. I don't use it, and it is growing stuff on it in the garage. I suppose I keep it because it was hand-crafted by Joe himself...

I never found that it helped me any. I wanted it to to something, but all it seemed to do was get my hands sore. I think I remember loaning it to Clay Edgin for a month or so, and he returned it to me with the same experience.

Initially, the way it tortured my hands, I thought it was helping tremendously, but I just didn't see any measurable results.

I suppose if people here swear by it I could give it a try again.

[Teemu I]

I admit that it would of course be naiive for me to say that it is THE way to go with only a couple of workouts on it under my belt, but..let me explain why I already think it can be very efficient. Sweep is my weakness. Allthough Kinney designed the machine to train beyond the range, I believe I'll be getting more out of it to my sweep. The feel I get during the swep is very intense and it hurts, but in a way that I would consider good.

I've been reading a ton of old posts and some people say it feels like it's pulling the fingers off. Well that I haven't noticed. I did somewhere around 20-30 really heavy negs on it in my first workout. I did not experience any bad type of soreness in my fingers. It may or may not have something to do with the fact that I've worked hard and built up my hands to tolerate heavy negs by using extended handle grippers all the way up to the BB PRO. I'm currently of the opinion that these extended handle negs are more unpleasant to perform than the SW negs, as the pressure on the palm is so great when I'm holding the Pro about 1/4" from closed. At worst it made my hands go a little numb. And believe me, I do not do the negs on the SW with light poundage, I'm using a load big enough to literally peel my hands open. With the loads I've used I've only been able to make the handles open more slowly, but not actually hold it steady at any position of the ROM. Yet I'm not experiencing such discomforting pains or soreness afterwards as many guys seem to report.

I did a workout on it on monday. I was still able to CCS my hardest Elite (3.54) the day after. Sweep felt very strong, which felt weird.

What I would hope from the guys posting their experiences, is to try to get into detail. Things such as describing the training program you used, the volume, frequency, loads, hold times, quality..very detailed describtions about how you exactly used it or are using it would be great, with the most important thing in my mind so far beeing the amount of time you were experimenting with it, as I would guess most have given up training on it too quickly and maybe experienced those pains because of starting out too heavily. I think just a one month is not enough time to draw any conclusions, as it will take more time for soft tissues to adapt. Personally I don't even expect my gripper performance to go up during the following weeks, but to deteriorate for some time and finally, as I've adjusted for it enough, I should see gains again. I will also train a bit differently for some time after enough time training on the SW, to hone that razor's edge of my crush again with explosive choker training. What I believe the SW will do for me, is to build a superior base for the future gains and help greatly with the sweep.

I'm sure my thoughts will evolve in the long run and I will try to carefully and objectively evaluate the results I get in the longer run. But this is what I think so far.

Edited August 6, 2008 by Teemu I

[Teemu I]

To clarify some more, there are plenty of statements such as "I didn't gain anything from it", "negatives didn't work for me" etc..but not much or more commonly, any further explanation how the person/persons making those statements actually trained on it. I lost count how many statements like that without further explanations I saw when I went through the old posts.

In all fairness and not meant as a personal offence towards anyone, it is pretty much a moot point to say that kind of things if, for example, you start out doing too much too soon, get sore or injured at worst and then draw that type of conclusions after very limited amount of time training in a way that can not be seen as sensible. As with everything else, you need to build up for it gradually.

I intend to give it atleast few months before I say anything with that much certainty.

Edited August 6, 2008 by Teemu I

[Bob Lipinski]

One thing I noticed- It is very very painful, and very easy to underestimate the amount of weight you can use.

Don Larkin has one, all of guys tried it with a certain weightload, and thought it was impossible. He did it, so I figured I should be able to as well. You just have to prepare for lots of pain.

[acorn]

I have played with mine a little here and there. Never really stuck with it long enough to make a difference though.

- Aaron

[Teemu I]

One thing I noticed- It is very very painful, and very easy to underestimate the amount of weight you can use.

Don Larkin has one, all of guys tried it with a certain weightload, and thought it was impossible. He did it, so I figured I should be able to as well. You just have to prepare for lots of pain.

Good point about underestimating, I believe that is true.

Ratio on mine is different from the original (mine allows for less weight to be used), I suck in all things related to math or physics so I don't know what would the 35 kg I was using last time equal to. But if I had to set myself a long term goal on this, I would be pretty damn happy to tolerate 50 kg. Hard to say really, only time will tell how much weight I need to be handling on my SW to close the #4.

[acorn]

One thing I noticed- It is very very painful, and very easy to underestimate the amount of weight you can use.

Don Larkin has one, all of guys tried it with a certain weightload, and thought it was impossible. He did it, so I figured I should be able to as well. You just have to prepare for lots of pain.

Good point about underestimating, I believe that is true.

Ratio on mine is different from the original (mine allows for less weight to be used), I suck in all things related to math or physics so I don't know what would the 35 kg I was using last time equal to. But if I had to set myself a long term goal on this, I would be pretty damn happy to tolerate 50 kg. Hard to say really, only time will tell how much weight I need to be handling on my SW to close the #4.

Most I've ever used on mine for a reasonably slow useful neg was 105# or about 48Kg and that was brutal.

- Aaron

[gazza]

I have always been interested in getting a secret weapon made but grippers have never been my thing until now i realise at 47 if i am gonna give them an honest go maybe as well be this side of 50 than the other side besides ive grown board of bending and need a new challenge for myself.

I decided last week that i was going to have a secret weapon and a grip machine made because in all honesty the grippers bore the pants off me and i know that if i was to just use the grippers i would not stay the coarse were as if i use the 2 machines for most of my training and just gauge my progress on the grippers with a fortnightly or monthly go on the grippers this will keep me motivated to keep after them.

I have done 5 workouts in 5 days useing both machines i plan to keep on doing this to make the hands adapt its something i did with the bending and it worked for me alot so i will try it with this and see what happens atleast for a month or 2 anyway.

My friend at work bought a new 2 coc last week i tried it straight after him i could close it and hold it closed left and right but i had to do a parrallel set with it were as my friend could close it rightly with almost a no set close and was not far of lefty the same straight away this showed me that all the bending ive done has given me alot of holding strength but i lack the sweep not good.

Since ive had the secret weapon and done almost a weeks daily training on it i can now almost no set my friends 2 in either hand this might be familliarization with the grippers or the secret weapon or a mixture of both.

My secret weapon has 5/8inch handles so they are thinner than the grippers which is what i intended for 2 reasons it gives you a closer close and is also more painfull and pain is my friend it makes my hands adapt i plan on getting another one made this week with hexagonal handles for even more pain when i am really feeling like punishing myself

What i do with mine is i set up 4 things back to back these are the secret weapon,grip machine,blob and 2 3/4inch thick handled dumbell i start with the secret weapon the handles are 5inches apart i do 5 reps each hand facing the machine from open to close[not negatives] then i face the back of the SW and do another 5 reps each hand again full reps not negs i then move onto the other grip machinwe and facing the machine i do 5 reps with the pinch plates then i face away fro the machine with my hands behind me and do 5 reps on the pinch plates i then jump onto the machine and do 5 reps with my bodyweight useing the gripping bars i then do 3 attempts with the blob each hand and 3 attempts with the thick handled db each hand this is the warm up i now start adding weight to the SW and grip machine and i then stick to 3 reps on each implement but on the SW its now just negatives and i try to hold these negatives for 15 secs this is getting the hands used to the load and a new type of pain before i start going balls to the wall i will do this for a month or 2 then up the intensity.

Ive only been useing the 2 machines for almost a week now but already my mind is starting to focus on whats ahead this is good it means i am looking forward to the challenge and am not afraid of the pain ahead its similar to how i felt when i was bending it makes the job somewhat easier if my mind is starting to accept what i have planned.

Its early days yet but i look forward to hearing Teemu and others feedback on what there training on the SW brings good and bad and i also look forward to seeing were my training with the same machine brings me.

[ae_yogi]

I made my own secret weapon and I am happy with it. I do forced negs once a week and I also use it for positive closes. Everyone seems to say that it can only be used for negatives but maybe it has to do with the way I build mine but it works fine for posititves as well. It could be that I am partal to my secret weapon because I built it with my own hands.

For my workout I do 20-30 sets of tripples holding for 5-10 seconds. I can only do this once a week and the other hand work I do is mostly pinch with some low volume gripper work. I seem to progress slowly with grip work; I think it is just the way I am, but it could be that I am not training properly. So take my workout routine with a grain of salt, and if you have any suggestions bring them on.

[Mlstrass]

I made one last year, but only used it for about 12 workouts as the pain was unbearable. I was also pretty much a rookie at the time, so I had NO business doing severe NEG's on the SW.

I have 3 attachment points on mine to vary the leverage. I've found that attaching the weight closer to the handles makes the action MUCH smoother when doing reps.

I do plan to give it another go in the future, but right now I have enough "tricks" to keep progressing

[Bill Piche]

Be careful with this as it can quickly degrade to becoming a support exercise and not really a simulated gripper negative.

[Sybersnott]

Be careful with this as it can quickly degrade to becoming a support exercise and not really a simulated gripper negative.

If you're somehow suggesting that you can 'cheat' on this machine, let me assure you that if everything is set up correctly - that won't happen; it can't.

I worked up to 150 pounds on the SW (that's 150 actual pounds, NOT a ratio on the machine). It was and is the most painful experience that I've ever had grip training.

Basically, you set it up heavy and grind out negatives. Heavy severe negatives. If you're thinking about doing reps, sets and other such crap - guess what?... you've got the wrong grip machine.

I made enough threads about the SW. If anyone wants to read them, do a search and you'll find out what I was talking about. I would pay good money to see someone correctly do 200+ pounds on the SW.

[Sybersnott]

Personally, I plan to work on it progressively and patiently for long enough time and build up the volume and loads slowly. I think it shows a very good promise as a training tool if used sensibly and although I'll be working hard with it, I do not intend to wreck my hands in the process.

Teemu,

I read your Blog and you might be going in a direction that I like! It was different than what I did, so it's fresh and creative - positive points to you! I myself wanted to cycle workouts on it; anyhow, keep us updated on your progress.

[Teemu I]

I have read most of your old posts about the SW John. Seemed to me like you were almost alone in thinking how good piece of training equipment it is. But so far I feel the same way you do. I think it has great potential. If you have some more details to provide, how you trained on it, the program you used and such, I'd be glad to hear about it. You must have been doing it right, reading how it made a huge difference to you.

Bill, I do understand what you mean, I think. It would be easy to cheat yourself on the SW, if you weren't paying enough attention to your technique. Top handle on mine is purposefully positoned very low to force me to really lean on it, to avoid any work shifting to back muscles instead of gripping muscles. I do think this is what you meant: if you let the palm off the top handle and don't have enough pressure there, the form will turn into something very different than it is on the grippers.

I will write more thoughts about the SW and all as my training goes on.

Edited August 8, 2008 by Teemu I

[jad]

Been a whie since I watched the Kinney video but doesn't the handle come out if you try to cheat?

[Teemu I]

Been a whie since I watched the Kinney video but doesn't the handle come out if you try to cheat?

I never knew about that, how is that designed? Would be interesting to know, even though I doubt I make any modifications on my SW anymore. Maybe file a little bit more but that's about it.

[acorn]

Been a whie since I watched the Kinney video but doesn't the handle come out if you try to cheat?

I never knew about that, how is that designed? Would be interesting to know, even though I doubt I make any modifications on my SW anymore. Maybe file a little bit more but that's about it.

The Tubing for the top portion where the handle is mounted is a slip fit into the base tubing near the handle. So if you are not pushing down enough the whole head section starts lifting out of the base.

- Aaron

[Teemu I]

Been a whie since I watched the Kinney video but doesn't the handle come out if you try to cheat?

I never knew about that, how is that designed? Would be interesting to know, even though I doubt I make any modifications on my SW anymore. Maybe file a little bit more but that's about it.

The Tubing for the top portion where the handle is mounted is a slip fit into the base tubing near the handle. So if you are not pushing down enough the whole head section starts lifting out of the base.

- Aaron

Ah, ok, I think I got it now. Thanks. Would have never occurred to myself to make such modification. Sounds good, how does it feel, does it eliminate the possibility of cheating completely?

I still try to rely on myself so that I will make sure to really push down on the handle. I noticed it very soon how the palm will slide off the handle if I don't.

[acorn]

Been a whie since I watched the Kinney video but doesn't the handle come out if you try to cheat?

I never knew about that, how is that designed? Would be interesting to know, even though I doubt I make any modifications on my SW anymore. Maybe file a little bit more but that's about it.

The Tubing for the top portion where the handle is mounted is a slip fit into the base tubing near the handle. So if you are not pushing down enough the whole head section starts lifting out of the base.

- Aaron

Ah, ok, I think I got it now. Thanks. Would have never occurred to myself to make such modification. Sounds good, how does it feel, does it eliminate the possibility of cheating completely?

I still try to rely on myself so that I will make sure to really push down on the handle. I noticed it very soon how the palm will slide off the handle if I don't.

I never have tried one with it myself but saw Morgan's when I was visiting him in Oregon. He told me about it and what it was for. He said it was pretty effective on that point from what I remember.

- Aaron

[Bill Piche]

Been a whie since I watched the Kinney video but doesn't the handle come out if you try to cheat?

I never knew about that, how is that designed? Would be interesting to know, even though I doubt I make any modifications on my SW anymore. Maybe file a little bit more but that's about it.

His was sliding and would slide off the bolts where it was mounted. This did not make sense though to me based on how you could cheat.

It really is when you pull your hand away from the top handle even a little tiny bit that you may not even realize when you are straining and your hand is under that much pressure. Then, it becomes supporting.

do think this is what you meant: if you let the palm off the top handle and don't have enough pressure there, the form will turn into something very different than it is on the grippers.

Exactly.

[Sybersnott]

His was sliding and would slide off the bolts where it was mounted. This did not make sense though to me based on how you could cheat.

It really is when you pull your hand away from the top handle even a little tiny bit that you may not even realize when you are straining and your hand is under that much pressure. Then, it becomes supporting.

Bill,

Yes, if you start "lifting up" during the movement, then it degrades into a support lift. When I use the SW, I push my hand down on the top handle and let my fingers & palm take the brunt of the force like your supposed to do on this machine.

BTW - does anyone STILL make and sell the SW?? I did a metasearch on the SW and couldn't find anything. If anyone has any info, please share. I am NOW interested in buying variations/flavors of the SW to compare and contrast the SW I bought originally from Kinney.

[aquilonian]

I think its great. combined with some overcrushes. thats all you need. I dont use it for negatives though.

[jad]

For just negatives, the ISG, with extra springs, is hard to beat. You can't cheat because it's not mounted. All you have to do to get it into position is put your foot in it and pull up with both hands, remove your foot, and let off with one.