World record check

[Tom of Iowa2]

I like the idea of keeping track of the best.And if the record is unofficial than so be it.We know Brad,Bartl,Pfister,"Mobsterone"seem to be over 260.I've read the other Gillinghams are over255?And I've seen a pic of big Tony pulling 255.I'm sure i've missed somebody(and I've seen some INCREDIBLE lifts here/locally at the gym) but its just off the top of my head.I like the idea of knowing who has the best lift and If the judgeing was 'off' or the apparatus not "perfect"I'll accept it.

I guess my point is regardless of the handle variables and the judgeing criteria they are the lifts to shoot for.

A guy capable of a 220 isn't all of a sudden going to pull 270 because he tilts the handle?Or because his handle doesn't spin as easy as another?(our handle can spin like a top with the flick of a finger-we just keep it clean and blow it out with an air pig...also we never use chalk)The big boys of the rolling thunder lift will still be the best-regardless of slight variables in the equipment or judgeing?

I would have one idea and this would still keep the spirit of the lift as perhaps intended by strossen over at milo.

Perhaps the Rolling Thunder(because of the spin an excellent training implement)whould be used of training.For contests go to a non spinning 2 3/8 handle.The lifts will go WAY up but it will be EZ to standardize.The "Rolling Thunder"handle will still be an excellent way to train for it and when you go to the non rolling handle...KaPOW..huge lifts.Just an idea and I'm a newbie...but it would also allow Milo to coniue having a reason to sponsor the Beauty and the Beast($1000 prize)and the nationals in St.LOUiS($500)prize...

Anyone could manufacture a thick handle and the weight pin and carabiner?Well we have a machinist with a lathe and a welding shop he can duplicate anything including the actual rolling thunder BUT we must have a reason for sponsors to be involved -so he won't.....the gip sport as small as it is would be much smaller than Milo soit would make sense for us to by a certifed NON Rolling Thunder for events and the Rolling Thunder IS still a great grip tool...

[OldGuy]

That is people adjusting their hold on the handle to find a way to lift more. The handles are fine. Some will always find a way to cheat.

[mobsterone]

I have never felt any benefit from tilting the RT handle unlike what I get out of thick handled dumbbells.

I suspect the comparison with the Elikio and the RT is a little off - bear with me here. If you said that the degree of comparable tolerance and differential between one Elekio and another is so micro-scopic as to be near identical then I agree.

The same argument, as I now agree, is not usable when talking about Grippers.

The RT, however, lies somewhere in the middle. The tube size might only differ between one and another by fractions of an inch probably 100ths as its a fairly standard plastic tube over a metal shaft. The small amount of welding used doesn't need to be exact and so on.

Even if the - died before it was born (IMO) - IGF could set a standard, which I doubt (again IMO) how would they get it carried out? Possibly asking PDA to make a standardized RT 'like' handle with a pricy but high degree of tolerance. It's all sound a little bit to anal for a very simple grip tool.

The only thing of any importance, which already exists (I should have a copy somewhere), is the lifting rules.

Regarding sleeve rotation. As its a plastic sleeve and I pull a fair amount and am, as are many of you, a CoC, it could be that some sleeves don't rotate that freely because - in the words of Sybersnott - 'we're putting a squeeze on them'. Mine has a tiny amount of give which I do my damndest to crush against the inner shaft.

Here's the rules I have:

  The lift starts with the weight in between the lifter's feet; in the world championships (and the nationals), the 15" loading pin and large carabiner Iron sells are used (this standardizes the lifting height). Any other loading pin and carabiner with the same dimensions could be used.

The lifter grabs the Rolling Thunder handle in approximately its center and lifts with the handle remaining approximately parallel to the ground. Thumbless grip is not permitted. Any contact between the lifter's hand and the non-revolving portion of the handle disqualifies the lift. The lifter must fully straighten up; once standing straight, the lifter gets a "down" signal from the referee, and must then return the weight to the ground. Contact must be maintained between the lifter's hand and the handle until the weight is resting on the floor. The referee then indicates whether the lift was passed or not.

In contest situations, we give the lifter one minute to complete the lift after his / her name is called; during that minute, there is no limit to how many times the lifter may try to complete the lift.

[OldGuy]

Steve, you being the same height as me, may well have the same size hands too. Recently I have been holding the RT and squeezing my middle finger tip has hard as I can against my thumb tip. This way I have lifted more weight.

[Tom of Iowa2]

last sentence should have read:'the grip sport- as small as it is- would be smaller without Milo so it would make sense to buy a certified NON rolling Thunder for events and the Rolling Thunder is still a great grip tool........

also OLD GUY i agree it is 'fine' the way it is !! BUT if people start to 'split hairs'then the NON Rolling THUNDER was just an idea that would make it exactly consisitant.Not really necessary in my mind but that would end any doubt?

We will continue useing the Rolling Thinder we have.The best pullers in our gym aren't looking for tricks they just pick it up.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Alright,

Let's take it one more time. This thread was about "world records". To me, a true world record is set in stone, undisputable. The term "world record" is sometimes being used by members of this board to denote a lift made in someones back yard on a implement that has its own very unique history of years of exposure to the elements of nature, giving it a unique surface texture.

    Regarding the tilting, Arne and I have both tried it. The result was the same. The lift became progressively more easily the further away from the midline one put ones hand.

    I have no problems talking about the heaviest lift made on a Rolling Thunder but in order for it to be a world record in the proper sence, the whole procedure must be repeatable. Others must be able to challenge it by lifting on the same handle or on another handle equal in difficulty to the one the record was set with.

[OldGuy]

I lift the same way as with my Inch type bar. Hand centered bar level with foor. Lift straight up. I do practise on a homemade version on which I can lif more. This is just to get used to the heavy weight rather than the grip aspect. 250+ pounds is heavy in itslef to haul up with one hand. When I know how much I can lift, I then focus on the gripping part.

[Tom of Iowa2]

I don't think it will ever be an exact world record -but the best at it will be the best.The judgeing criteria seems pretty straight forward(thnak you Mobsterone) but then worrying about the tilt would be a difficult call.Sort of like the controversy in powerlifting calls...i.e.did he break parllel?,hit parallel?,did he wait for the signal? did he move his leg during the lift?was the pause long enougH?

I think what is cool about grip is THAT it is so straight forward.Simple.

On the other hand the Rolling Thunder Handle itself is very small light weight object.IronMind could send out one "certified" handle to World championship contests.The promoter could then ship it back.UPS ground total cost to promoter(in the USA)about 15$.Personally,I feel this is a bit much but would satisfy some aspects of concerns.All world record lifts done on the same handle?(doubtful that there will be a scheduling problem...i.e.too many contests going on at the same time)

Judgeing would always be a problem to verify.Also-The weather conditions,humidity and temperature effects things.....Despite there being some ways to aid the quest for a real world record there will be variables.

Also if things get too complicated there will be less interest in promoting a contest.I've gained the support of some help because it is so simple.....compared to a full blown strongman contest.In fact is seems simpler than promoting a 3 lift powerlifting meet.Again thats the beauty of grip sports.KISS.

Grab a hold of the handle near the middle and pick it up.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Grab a hold of the handle near the middle and pick it up.

I am one of the co-organizer of the Löddeköpinge Grip Challenge, a grip competition held on a quarterly basis. One of the lifts is the Rolling Thunder. I can assure you that judging a RT lift is every bit as difficult as judging a powerlifting squat. We also compete with grippers and these, by comparison , are very easy to judge. The pinch is somewhere in between. Anyway, of these three lifts the RT is by far the most difficult to judge.

[mobsterone]

I can just about touch my fingertips in the way described. I also think the shipping of a handle from Ironmind and for that handle only to be used would simplify things in the way described.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Yes, it certainly would. Please make sure, that besides using approved plates, also video record the attempt so that the rules are obvious to everyone. For example, how long does the weight have to be held in the finishing position before it is lowered under controll.

  For those of you who have not judged a RT attempt in competition; it really gets interesting when you have a short guy with long arms vs. a long guy with short arms. Lock out position for some is a 2 cm lift and for others 30 cm.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Another note; I have judged guys who tried to shorten the lifting height by referring to a sumo deadlift style. After that we changed the rules so that one is not allowed to place the feet more than 10 cm away from the plates (which are of Eleiko 15 kg iron plates size).

[Tom of Iowa2]

Yes it will be interesting to judge but thank goodness not as hard to setup as the squat .I won't be judgeing my own contest though we'll bring in an appropriate expert.

I over simplified things to make the point that i don't want to see things get tainted by controversy like powerlifting has.We WILL take the rules quite seriously though.

Also,at this juncture,we are competeing against each other at the gym and in an honorable fashion.Any cheating would not be tolerated nor had it even occurred to us to try.It would mean a quick trip to the boxing room

The second best lift was done by a guy who just centered his hand and lifted it.He had no motivation to cheat in fact has no motivation to do the Rolling Thunder.Thank goodness he probably won't touch it again til contest time.....my point?

Also-for what its worth-we all use the same technique,hand centerd ,no chalk(ever) and lift it.We are all over 6ft(except Josh Bigger who is only 5'10 but has the biggest hands and forearms) but nobody is useing a wide stance.We just aren't that sophisticated but we will watch out for this.

Our plates aren't clibrated but all have been weighed on a very good scale.Our 45's do vary in weight however most are heavy.45.5# to 48.5#and they are MARKED.

[Tom of Iowa2]

Forgot to answer my own point....                                       My point?Center the hand,keep the implement clean and dust free and you can't really go wrong.

BTW:

For some reason I get kicked of by AOL when I'm in this forum-it says for lack of 'activity' or because I was inactive....so I type in my posts as fast as i can before i get kicked off..thus all the typos and silly mistakes.

It ONLY happens when i'm in this forum...strange but I'll figure it out.

[Sybersnott]

So why not make a NEW type of handle specifically made for RT competitions, and built to competition specs??   ???

We could call it... the RT2.  Whadda think?  ???  

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

The guy with the sumo style is no longer invited to compete at the LGC. The problem with hand positioning is probably more of thing with experienced lifters. With my right hand I always keep the handle perfectly horizontal but with my lefty there is usually a slight inclination of the handle (all according to Arne). This is not something I do intentionally. For the LGC we have agreed upon a standard where we allow only a slight tilt of the handle.

[mobsterone]

I'll see what I can do with regards to the video but no promises - I wanna lift it not worry about it. The best would be digitial video and I don't know anyone that has it. Normal VHS etc no problem.

But, as per another thread (and I for one don't want this one going the same way), I'm not lifting for everyone else's satisfaction, although that would be nice, I'm lifting for me (a la Old Guy).

[Roark]

I will never be the strongest person in my town, let

along my county or my state. World records are to me

an other-worldly thought.

So I train for me, to surpass the previous me.

Those who qualify to compete at world class level should,

as has been mentioned in this thread, train to beat their

previous bests, then compete if they choose, and see where

they place in the overall scheme.

EXCELLENT idea NOT to allow sumo style. And as tedious as

some of these discussions become, they are demanded by the

very fact that some 'competitors' all always looking for the

variation that makes the feat 'easier', and by so thinking bypass the core purpose of trying to become stronger, not

a trickster.

Look at the absolute mess powerlifting is in these days! The

fox is in charge of the hen house! And even the hens as they are destroyed, don't seem to object.

[OldGuy]

I am going to design a "power sleeve" for the Rolling Thunder. It will be made of strong rubber, and when in place will  stop all of that pesky rolling. It will be legal in my federation and the only records recognized will be my own.       :p

[Guest 115-1005574997]

Steve

If you lift the RT with more weight than the current record and you have done so in a way Strossen (or Wally Pullen) is happy with, then you deserve the record.

Thats it, period