World record check

[Guest Euclid]

Okay, I know I could do a little research and get these facts myself, but just for clarification, what are the world records in the and who performed them:

pinch (165#?)

crush (the #4 or the Phantom?)

thick-bar, knuckles foward DL; alternating grip DL; RT wr

hub lift(Karl Norberg with the 3 10's on a 45?)

dumbell wrist curl, barbell wrist curl

[bseedot]

This is just my personal opinion, but unless standard equipment is used we should not be speaking about 'world records'.  A great lift that is clearly a top notch effort is one thing, but 'world record' is too generous a title.

Of the lifts you've mentioned, I'd only count the RT as world record title worthy (and I believe that that would be Steve Gardener with 276 lbs.)  I think that Steve is doing a bit more now, but I don't know that it's been verified in the same way as 276 was.

BC.

[Tou]

David Horne pinched the heaviest weight.

David Horne wirst curl over 600 pounds.

I don't know the exact numbers.

[Tyrannosaurus Dave]

As to hub lift, I remember reading in a York publication that Grimek had lifted a 45 by the hub with an extra 45 lbs on it.  Wish I could find that issue now.  Grimek was also said to grip an old 45 by the rim and hold it out at arm's length.  If that was palm down, what a feat!

[Sybersnott]

Pinch Grip WR - Mac Batchelor... 162 lbs.

Rolling Thunder WR - Brad Gillingham... 280 lbs. (this record may be broken real soon)

As for the other records, David Horne might have the answers.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

It is pointless talking about world records unless standardized equippment is used. It is likely that even the Rolling Thunder differs. Some handles may spin a little more easily than others. We don't know. In the pinch it is VERY pointless talking about world records as the implements used vary a lot in difficulty even at the same width. The figure of 162lbs on one implement may equal 120lbs on another.

[Guest mg6680]

Well then, lets get some of the companies (Ivanko, etc) to make some standardized equipment.  I think hand strength will be an Olympic event before that happens.

[mobsterone]

Brad Gillingham, according to Randall has done 275 pounds in plates alone. So he has maybe lifted 282. My best at the mo is 278. I will attempt 280 on Tuesday.

David Hornes best pinch - 2 handed - is 120kilos. But Mac's may have been one handed. Several, inc me, have done 90 kilos in David's grip comp.

However, and is was discussed here before, Brian is correct. We do need standardized equipment but as was also discussed until then the equipment used at the various grip comps that exist and take place has been, for the most part, the same everytime that comp has taken place.

Other than the grippers Ironminds equipment is more or less of a standard. I might agree that some RT handles turn easier than others. We need Joe to travel the world with a measuring tape, scales and calipers to make sure we get it right. What say you joe?

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Well, this is the problem with world records in grip events. For example, if one pulls 300 kg in overhand (classic style) deadlift (no thumb lock) on a (new) Eleiko (ol-type) bar then this could be classified as a world record (assuming no one can do better), since Eleiko bars are standardized. The same can not be said about the Rolling Thunder handle, which addmitedly is much cheaper. Brad's 282lbs may or may not be a more difficult lift than let's say a 278lbs mobsterone lift an a different handle.

[Sybersnott]

Brad's record was set at the Rolling Thunder World's in Honolulu, so that is a record (WR) set in a competition.  My handle is stock, except I squirted some dry graphite to make it spin easier, and therefore, make it a tougher handle.

[Wade Gillingham]

Brad didn't do that at a competition - he did it in our garage.  Very little warmup and it was pretty cold outside.  He casually worked up to 275 pounds of York plates.  He has done 265 on another occasion in our gym with a different handle.

[OldGuy]

Don't worry about world records. Better to try to beat your  personal records on you own equipment.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Snott,

A world record is not worth the paper it is written on unless others can attempt to break it on standardized equippment. The Rolling Thunder handle cannot be regarded as standardized equippment. It then does not matter if the lift was done at the "World Championships". Moreover, a world record attempt as such must be done using plates approved for competition in olympic lifting or power lifting. Anyone having used the Rolling Thunder handle can confirm that it is a very effective instrument to gain open hand strength but they would also have noted that it is not suitable for setting world records where differences as small as 0.5 kg matters.

[mobsterone]

Wade. I do my work by doing very little in the way of warm up as well. Typically I'll do 80 kilos for one, 100 kilos for one and then a max. The max will be the only time I use chalk as well.

The handle on the RT is of a standard size and they all turn. The only possible difference would be how freely they turn. The 'Official' World Record Syber almost got right was 264.5 at the Hawaii comp by someone whose name I've forgotten (really).

Neither Brad not my effort is acceptable as the weights were not weighed. That's why I am going to Pullum's in Jan and using calibrated weights and a brand new not tampered with handle.

[The Mac]

The 264.5lb lift was by Jan Bartl, I believe.

Good luck to all attempting the RT "world record", whatever that may be.

[Sybersnott]

Mikael, what exactly does "standardized" equipment mean?

The Rolling Thunder is a revolving lifting handle produced by IronMind.  Each one they make is almost exactly like the next one.  Granted, you won't walk into your average gym and find one there, but if you go to Ironmind they can sell you one, and the one you buy will be very similiar to the one I own and train with.

So if the RT is not standardized (as you say), then why even bother to hold competitions with it?  The organization (whichever it may be) holding the event certifies the handle to be used and the weights to be lifted, the competitors use that very same handle to do their lifts, and final results of the match are posted.  Wouldn't you say that's fair??

Wade, sorry about the flub.  I thought that record was set in Hawaii, but you set me straight on that one.  Thanks.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Snott,

Quote: Mikael, what exactly does "standardized" equipment mean?

In this context, it means that the manufacturer can guarantee that each item of a series is as close to identical as is humanly possible (within reason). For example, the Eleiko bar is approved for international competition in olympic lifting. This means, from a practical point of view, that a 200 kg snatch will be equally heavy regardless which (new) Eleiko bar you use. With the Rolling Thunder, I can guarantee that IronMind cannot guarantee that 100 kg on one handle would be exactly as difficult as 100 kg on another handle. Their product is simply not built with the extreme quality that characterizes Eleiko (and other approved) bars (just look at the material used. Not surprisingly, the Rolling Thunder handle costs far less than an Eleiko bar.

Quote: The Rolling Thunder is a revolving lifting handle produced by IronMind.  Each one they make is almost exactly like the next one.  

If you have not understood that there is a major difference in quality between an affordable Rolling Thunder handle and the very expensive Eleiko bar (which is approved for competition at the Olympic Games), I think that I am waisting my time trying to explain it in more detail.

Quote:So if the RT is not standardized (as you say), then why even bother to hold competitions with it?  

There are no problems using it for a competition as all competitors would use the same handle.

Quote: The organization (whichever it may be) holding the event certifies the handle to be used and the weights to be lifted, the competitors use that very same handle to do their lifts, and final results of the match are posted.  Wouldn't you say that's fair??

As long as the world record is set on the very same handle there are no problems. However, as I have understood it, Steve is attempting a lift on a handle which is not the same as that used by Bartl, which is not the same as used by Brad. With an approved (new) Eleiko bar this would not have been a problem. Another inhereted problem with the Rolling Thunder handle is that the difficulty of the lift is to some extent dependant on where on the handle you put your hand (on the rotating part). If you have a narrow hand and grab the handle in a way that the edge of the hand is only a few mm away from the edge of the rotating part of the handle, the handle will then tilt when you lift it and this is turn will make the lift easier.

[OldGuy]

There is such a minutlely microscopic percentage of the population doing grip stuff such as the Rolling Thunder and pinchgripping, that world record claims have little meaning. That is why I say that personal bests are the way to go.

[Bill Piche]

There is such a minutlely microscopic percentage of the population doing grip stuff such as the Rolling Thunder and pinchgripping, that world record claims have little meaning. That is why I say that personal bests are the way to go.

How true. How true.

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

To be honest, the percentage of people doing serious olympic lifting is pretty microscopic too.

[Bill Piche]

To be honest, the percentage of people doing serious olympic lifting is pretty microscopic too.

True as well. Don't take my post the wrong way.  Standards are definitely needed for grip records.

[The Mac]

Mikael,

I agree with your points about the RT handles not being built to the same degree of tolerance as an Eleiko barbell, but I do not think your point about the "inherent problem" belongs here. That seems to be merely a matter of technique (and, of course, having the hand size to be able to use it) and nothing to do with comparing lifts on different RT handles. This is of course another matter that would be up for debate within the proposed IGC.

As a quick question, does anyone know how the IGC is coming on? I note that the IGC Forum has been removed.

Regards

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Mac,

I respectfully disagree. The problem with a tilted handle is very much relevant to the question whether one can recognize a world record on the Rolling Thunder handle or not (and thus what the world record in this lift is). What maximum angle should be allowed? Lets say Bartl did his 264lbs with a 3 degree angle throughout the lift whereas Brad pulled 280 lbs initially with a 10 degree angle only to finish the lift with the handle parallel. Try it yourself and you will notice a difference. With a deadlift with a regular bar the tilting will hardly be much of a problem as one tends to pull the bar in a parallel position. We have thus two problems with the Rolling Thunder handle when it comes to recognize a world record; 1.) some handles will rotate more easily than others; 2.) the angle at which the handle is held will have an effect on how difficult the lift is going to be. Ideally the handle should be kept horizontal throughout the lift but this is, as a result of the whole construction, very difficult to achieve (and control by the lifter).

[The Mac]

MIkael,

Yes, I see what you mean. The same standard of judging would have to apply throughout

[Guest Mikael Siversson]

Mac,

You should see when Arne and I work out with the Rolling Thunder handle. Endless discussions (Arne is mostly on the recieving end) on whether the handle was kept at a too large angle during the lift. If I put the pinky side of my hand as far to the edge of the rotating part of the handle as possible without touching the frame of the handle, I can pull 5-10 kg more than if the handle is kept horizontal. In several pictures of people pulling the RT handle one can see that the handle is quite far from horizontal. A bit of an angle add several kilos to the lift as the edge of the rotating part will push against the frame.