It's no fair!

[Guest Euclid]

Okay, I'm willing to face it.  I was born weak.  I have no God given ability to be a strength phenom in either grip or olympic/powerlifting.  I read on Joe's Iron History that Chris James reversed curled 165# the 3RD time he tried it(I'm assuming this wasn't on a 2in bar).  Well great, I reversed curled a whopping 75# on my first go.  Some men are just born with the blueprints for a massive, staggering frame and otherworldly strength.  Well, not me.  I have less than a 7" wrist at 5'11.  I weighed 155# before I began training.  Don't think for one second that I'm complaining and moping about my physical prowess, i'm just pointing out that some men are born with "it" and some without, and I guess we must all make do with what God gave us.  I just hope that strength can be developed limitlessly in some sense, and that an Iron will and gut-wrenching determination will help me reach my goals, because surely genetics will not.

[Roark]

Wanna feel worse? Chris turned age 32 a couple months ago,

so his main strength levels are yet to be fully developed.

???    

[Rick Walker]

Euclid-

Do yourself a huge favor and pick up a copy of Dinosaur Training by Brooks Kubik.  If he heard you whining about genetics-he would drop a sandbag on your noggin'

Seriously-I was a puny, scrawny, chicken-legged punk most of my life.  When I was in 6th grade-I might of tipped the scales at a whopping 70 pounds and I was (am) asthmatic and had allergies to everything under the sun!

I started traiing at age 12 with a massive 45 pound 1 rep max squat.  Things have changed since then.  I owe it to hours of sweat, heavy iron, gallons of skim milk, pounds and pounds of red meat& Chicken, and tubs of peanut butter.

Just train hard, eat hard, and sleep hard.  The gains will come.  The body will adapt or die-

Rick Walker :hehe

[underdawg]

amen brother

[Guest mg6680]

Aside from all this hard training...If youre a naturally very thin person youre gonna have to eat like a horse to get strong.  Plus, youre going through a mental thing now...get over it and you'll get strong.

[Sybersnott]

There are LOTs of guys in the iron game that should not and could not lift heavy weights.... but they can and they do.

Put all of that crap out of your mind.  There are guys here that couldn't close the #1 that are now closing the #3.  

A few months ago, I couldn't squat an empty Olympic bar.  Now, I'm squatting very close to my bodyweight for reps.  Am I a young pup like most of the guys here?  Nope, I'm 38.  And I'm not stopping until I can do 500+ pounds for reps; that's my long-term goal.  

Stop feeling sorry for yourself, and you can quit blaming "genetics" for your problems, too.  Just find out what needs to be done and then DO IT.  Remember that we're here to help ya!!  

[Nathan Say]

Genetics make a difference, but there's nothing stopping a guy from getting big & strong if he wants to badly enough.

[Guest mg6680]

Try changing your routine, rest days, etc.  Find a good workout partner to motivate you (those are hard to come by though).

[Nathan Say]

Euclid, how could you have so little belief in yourself when you wrote a textbook that has been in continuous use for over 2000 years & more published than any other book on any subject in history? :p

[Guest Euclid]

Like I stated, I'm not whining, it's just that some are born with "it" and some without.  And I do understand that strength can be developed tremendously if worked at long enough.  Look at Ernie Pickett, the guy could press 115# at his first workout, went on to set a world record press at 445 1/2# within 7 years.  Alls I'm saying is there are some things you are born with that you cannot change such as height(well this can be altered if a child is given growth hormone early in life but that doesn't count), hand size, arm length, leg length, etc.  Heck, everyone of us here has the same amount of muscle cells that we did when we were born.  They just increase in size.  Oh, and I'm not THAT weak.  I can pinch 2 35's, close the #2 both hands, close a 350ip pda, squat 300 for 15(olympic stance, DEEP as heck), and DL over 500.  It's just that I'm no Chris James.

[Guest 115-1005574997]

Elucid

why are you trying to compare yourself to the top 0.01% of the population?

The very best grip lifters in the Uk (no particular order) are David Horne, Chris James, Nick Mckinless (well technically he’s in Australia but that’s a different story) Jim Wylie then you have the likes of Michael Daly, Steve Gardener, Martin Whittred, Marc Wylie, Eliz Talbot very, very closely behind them.

Genetics is a huge factor but developing your born ability via the correct training, diet etc FOR YOU is the key to unlocking your potential.

I know what your saying but you simply shouldnt compare yourself to the very best.  You can if you want but if it makes you depressed (which by the sound of things it does) then stop it.

Look at yourself, what you can do what you have got and where you want to go.

Thats why Dave’s competitions are so good, it allows people with similar abilities to compete against their peers and better themselves.

As for Kubiks book, your better off burning it rather than buying it!

Thanks to his suggestions ive permanently damaged both shoulders and it caused me nothing but pain and grief.  why?  well the way i have to train in order for me to gain and not get injured was 180 degrees opposite from his suggestions.  since if stopped reading the suggestions of people that have nothing in common with my individual unique biomechanics and genetic makeup im gaining better, injury free than i ever dreamt possible or believed i could.

It is true that a person with average genetics can make extraordinary gains WHEN COMPAIRED TO OTHER ORDINARY PEOPLE or where they started from.  

So stop comparing yourself to the elite and just concentrate on your peers and being the best you can be.

[OldGuy]

You are not whining , but you seem discouraged when you compare yourself to the likes of Chris James. He has been training for 20 years, myself almost 40. I am taller and heavier that he is and yet on a 1 to 10 scale if he were a 9 I would be a 5. Doesn't bother me one bit. Just set short term goals, and see how far you can go. If you just worry about not making it has far has Chris has you may never make it has far as you might have done. We are not all born equal, and life is seldom fair.

[gazza]

WELL PUT SCOTT!!!

PS.I LIKE YOUR NEW CAPTION.

[gazza]

OLDGUY

HOW TALL AND HEAVY ARE YOU,AND DO YOU FIND IT EASIER OR HARDER KEEPING BODYWEIGHT ON,AT YOUR AGE.

[Guest 115-1005574997]

Cheers Gazza

hows it goin with you and the Gazza bell?

P.S  I LOVE IT HOW MAKE A STATEMENT INTO YOUR POSTS

[Rick Walker]

Scott-

 How did you hurt yourself?  The programs detailed in Dinosaur Training are excellent-if the movements are done correctly.  I dont care who you are-heavy squats, thick bar movements, farmers, heavy sand bag and keg lifting is going to make you strong.  

Injury comes from pi$$-poor technique.  I know many bodybuilders with messed up shoulders, knees, and wrists.

Rick Walker :hehe

[Adam Black]

...Iron will and gut-wrenching determination will help me reach my goals...

That is the most important component to size and strength. I don't care how great your genetics are, without a strong mind you will never get far.

The iron game is all about the journey, not the destination. Don't worry about other peoples journey, focus on your own.

[Guest 115-1005574997]

Rick

Kubik suggested benching in an 'S' curve where you press up then pull back and simultaneously press until the bar is at eye level then press straight up to lock out.

after 6 months i partially tore the suprispanatus in the right shoulder

then i began power snatches, power jerks, high pulls, power cleans, swings and presses.  I partially tore my bicep tendon in the left shoulder and aggravated the supranspinatus in the right

I then did sandbag lifts and barrel lifts off the floor and to chest height

that re ignited my damaged back after just 6 weeks

The attitude of Kubik that people just aren’t gutsy enough, determined enough, dont put enough effort it and make excuses is simply insulting

My body structure was NEVER DESIGNED to do such over head lifting and the poor form of benching (as spouted by Kubik) has Four score and seven years ago I am the MAN because I swear and I want everyone to know how manly I am by using profanity.ed both shoulders to the point i cannot do any form of pressing or heavy squatting.

what i have found is that my body structure IS DESIGNED to do partial deadlifts, dips and chins.  I can also do curls and grip lifts

thus i train those and discard what i can not do

To blow my own trumpet i am able to do HOLDS (see my previous post) with 2x100k bars thats 2.5x b/w compared to the 2.3 x b/w and 2.5 x b/w Jim and David can do

so that illustrates how you find out what works for you and stick to it.  

Rick, Kubiks training works FOR YOU it doesn’t work for EVERYONE

[Nathan Say]

Kubik suggested benching in an 'S' curve where you press up then pull back and simultaneously press until the bar is at eye level then press straight up to lock out.

I never know whether this is true or not since the WSB lifters say press it in a straight line. I don't bench press anyway so it doesn't really matter.

The attitude of Kubik that people just aren?t gutsy enough, determined enough, dont put enough effort it and make excuses is simply insulting

He meant that the average guy who goes to the gym just so he can tell his friends that he 'works out' & have them say 'wow you work out? cool!' & feel like a big man, or so he can check out spandex girls in the mirrors or whatever is a spineless wimp. What he says is 100% true. Most guys (well, people in general) give up before they start to lift hard because they have so many excuses now. They go on about genetics & suppplements & drugs & how they can't gain without them but they're forgetting that there have been really strong guys  all throughout history. Guys who got that way just by working really hard.

Have you tried rehabbing your shoulder/back? Can it even be fixed? Squats aren't everything, but I think you're still missing out if you can't do them.

[OldGuy]

The only training related injuries I have had are shoulder injuries. This was due to using a wide grip in flat and inclined bench. When I had taken a break from lifting I brought my hands 5'' closer together. This has helped a great deal. Also I stopped all behind the neck movements. My favorite triceps exercise used to be skull crushers. I used a great deal of weight. When I learned that others were getting elbow problems from this, I didn't wait to injure myself, I switched over to close grip benchpress. This I think is one of the safest

triceps movements. I avoid lifting heavy dumbbells into position for flat and incline bench as that too can hurt the shoulders. I wear a belt, but only for overhead lifts. I will only try to press a weight I can clean.

[Rick Walker]

Any training manual-regardless of the author-must be taken with a grain of salt.  Granted, no one routine works for everyone-one must be able to change and adapt, to do things a bit different to help their individual joint angles, etc.

What Kubik does is provide a skeleton, a backbone, to build and change upon.  I , for one, bench in a straight up and down piston like fashion.  Benching in the "J" or "S" fashion is normal for most body positions. Put a beginer on the bench, hand him/her the empty bar, and tell them to bench.  It is usually normal for them to push up and back towards their face.  This is 99% due to weak triceps.  The shoulder/pec is much stronger-thus one is more apt to push over their face.  If you think you have strong tris-try keeping the bar over your upper abs through the WHOLE range of motion!  I have watched big benchers get stuck with 225 trying to keep it straight.

I say bench how it is normal for you and don't try to change.  I know many guys who handle 400+ with the "J" fashion.  Unless you are shooting for bench records-bench how you are most comfortable.

Again I must stress that I HAVE NEVER, in 13 years of training, seen someone get injured if proper form is used.  I have seen many back injuries in the squat and dead-every time the lifter was half way through the movement and suddenly was forced, due to improper muscle balance, form, too much weight,etc., into the rounded back position.  Zatsiorsky, in "Science and Practice of Strength Training", stated that a 50kg load lifted in the proper, or arched back, position = 380kg of compression on the lubar intervertebral disks.  Lifted in the improper, rounded back, position, that same 50kg load now = 630kg of compression on the lumbar intervertebral disk!!  That is a HUGE difference-no wonder people say squats, deads, and over-head movements aren't for them!

I like to train rounded back movements.  Sometimes in a heavy pull, things happen.  I want to be ready.  I started with a 25-lb plate in rounded back pulls and GMs.  I can now round back over 550-easily and round back GM off of pins or chains over 650.  THis prevents back injury and allows me to keep training properly.

I guess it comes down to goals.  I can't see how timed holds will assist performance in any thing except grip.  Dips and chins are good-but eventually will loose their effectiveness.  Variation is the key to a hard gainer and Kubik provides this.

You just gotta use your head-if the movement hurts-DONT DO IT!

Rick Walker

:hehe

[Nathan Say]

You mean rounding the upper back is ok but not the lower back, right?

[Rick Walker]

Follow the curvature of the spinal cord-in a tight arched back postion-the spine follows its natural "S" shape.  When you round, the thoracic region is compromised which increases compression forces on the lumbar region.

Rick Walker :hehe

[OldGuy]

To Gazza. My weight varies btween 260 and 280 at a fraction over 6' 3''. I find it very easy to add weight. I am eating far less now than at any time in my life. I am trying to go down to 240. My best ever bench was at 223 lbs.

[Mjoynt]

I have also found Brooks Kubik to be very informative and extremely motivating.  However, I don't practice all that he preaches.  I listen to him along with everyone else who offers advice.  I try to take a little from everyone.  I admire him because he encourages strength training WITHOUT STEROIDS.  And he acknowledges that it IS possible to get big and strong without them, and I totally agree.

Remember, there have been a lot of strength training successes without super genetics and drugs.