#4 Closers

[Wes]

I have no problem believing Tom or Ron could do that. Tom is a beast, I remember someone on Marunde Muscle saying they saw him strict press a 375 log and he almost got 400. Somebody with body strength like that has got the grip to go with it.

[Guest Bonzi]

I have no problem believing Tom or Ron could do that. Tom is a beast, I remember someone on Marunde Muscle saying they saw him strict press a 375 log and he almost got 400. Somebody with body strength like that has got the grip to go with it.

I am not doubting it, I just want to see it.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Wasn't Ron Mazza close to getting the MDB up? I think it's Mazza I'm thinking of, there was a video of him having a few goes at the MDB and finally getting both ends off the ground abit. Anyone who can pull the MDB can't be that far off from an old #4, are there any Inch lifters who aren't #3 closers?

[Hubgeezer]

Anyone who can pull the MDB can't be that far off from an old #4, are there any Inch lifters who aren't #3 closers?

Odd Haugen plays with the Inch, and he cannot close a #3. He also may have the best MDB lift on video. The last quarter inch to close a specific gripper, in many cases, is limited to gripper experience and training only. I would imagine many of the WSM contestants cannot close a Number 3. That does not mean they do not have better grips than 99% of the people on this board. It just means they are not good at closing the last quarter inch of a gripper.

I think we place way too much emphasis on closing grippers. How many WSM contestants can squeeze 100kg on a Dyno? It wouldn't surprise me if many of the non-3 closing WSM finalists can. It wouldn't surprise me if 90% of "Captains of Crush" are squeezing under 90kg on a Dyno. Who has the better grip, the #3 gripper closer, or the MDB-lifting-non-#3 closer?

[Jedd Johnson]

I saw McClure do it too. About an inch away without any real set with the off hand.

He also lifted the inch to lockout with ease. I think I have that on film somewhere but I have no idea where the tape is. It was April 2005.

McClure is a pro strongman now. I doubt he has time for a Grip contest.

Closing the gap on the 4 is still a long shot whether it's McClure or not, but that dude has an incredible grip.

Hubgeezer makes a great point. A dude can complete feats link the inch, mdb, and blob just with brute strength. It takes technique and know-how to make the handles touch on the grippers. More technique than a strength requirement, in a way.

[odin]

It takes technique and know-how to make the handles touch on the grippers. More technique than a strength requirement, in a way.

Jedd, I never fully grasped that until I tried the grippers in chokers at Gripmas.

[jad]

grippers definetly take a lot of technique but the choker's greatly reduce it. As for strongmen being able to pick up blobs, inches and MDB's my question is how big are there hands? Huge hands, as many strongmen have, make those feats TONS easier. The fact that Odd Haugen excels in thickbar and not much else in the grip world is the perfect example of this. You could take grippers out and replace it with dyno and these guys would still get mopped by Chad, Jedd, Martin, etc..

Judging a PRO strongman competitor's grip by whether or not he can close a #3 is silly but so is judging someone with 9" hands grip ability by how well they do on thickbar and wide pinch.

[lifesnotfair]

Judging a PRO strongman competitor's grip by whether or not he can close a #3 is silly but so is judging someone with 9" hands grip ability by how well they do on thickbar and wide pinch.

Great point, I agree 100%!

[Scott Styles]

With less than 3 months training any of the top strongmen would dominate the #3. They just don't know the skill.

[Hubgeezer]

You could take grippers out and replace it with dyno and these guys would still get mopped by Chad, Jedd, Martin, etc..

I don't know about that. Dale Harder came to my town in May 2006 because the best discus throwers in the world gather in Salinas at the annual Throwers Meet there. Jarred Rome, a World Top 10 thrower, after competing in both the discus and the shotput, was handed a dyno by Dale. Never had touched one, never touched a gripper, never did grip work. He sqeezed 107 right hand, 106 left hand.

[MalachiMcMullen]

He sqeezed 107 right hand, 106 left hand.

Would that be kg or lbs? Anyway I think Brad Ardrey proved something at Gripmas, strongmen are STRONG. I think Brad closed the 183ish gripper, whatever the 3.5 was? I'm pretty sure I heard he doesn't train these either so it shows that setting the gripper down to parallel is what stops all those out there, teach a strongman like Mariusz, Misha, Zydrunas, etc, etc to set and they would almost certainly dominate a big gripper(3+) I still think saying they would close a #4 with alittle technique is wishful thinking though.

That's just amazing to me that Odd can't shut a 3, his hands are huge but how could it be that lopsided between grippers and thickbar? Come to think of it, John Connor, he's attempted a NS on a GR8 #4 and gotten it to parallel(vid on youtube) and lifted the Inch with a nice 10 second hold at the top but I think he has yet to close a 3.

[Wes]

I talked to John and he said he had closed the #3 easily.

[jad]

You could take grippers out and replace it with dyno and these guys would still get mopped by Chad, Jedd, Martin, etc..

I don't know about that. Dale Harder came to my town in May 2006 because the best discus throwers in the world gather in Salinas at the annual Throwers Meet there. Jarred Rome, a World Top 10 thrower, after competing in both the discus and the shotput, was handed a dyno by Dale. Never had touched one, never touched a gripper, never did grip work. He sqeezed 107 right hand, 106 left hand.

Chad pulled like 260 at BBB, Jedd was right around 235-240 and who knows what Martin could pull. Then there's the matter of all the other events.

[acorn]

You could take grippers out and replace it with dyno and these guys would still get mopped by Chad, Jedd, Martin, etc..

I don't know about that. Dale Harder came to my town in May 2006 because the best discus throwers in the world gather in Salinas at the annual Throwers Meet there. Jarred Rome, a World Top 10 thrower, after competing in both the discus and the shotput, was handed a dyno by Dale. Never had touched one, never touched a gripper, never did grip work. He sqeezed 107 right hand, 106 left hand.

Chad pulled like 260 at BBB, Jedd was right around 235-240 and who knows what Martin could pull. Then there's the matter of all the other events.

Chad and I both pulled 255 on it at BBB

- Aaron

[kelby]

what about joe kinney. i had a video of him doing the four rather easily. fully extended. over card with for sure. i lost that tape. i was gonna send it to a friend, and the mother in law taped over it. dont know why he didnt put it on dvd.

Edited December 13, 2007 by kelby

[Hubgeezer]

You could take grippers out and replace it with dyno and these guys would still get mopped by Chad, Jedd, Martin, etc..

I don't know about that. Dale Harder came to my town in May 2006 because the best discus throwers in the world gather in Salinas at the annual Throwers Meet there. Jarred Rome, a World Top 10 thrower, after competing in both the discus and the shotput, was handed a dyno by Dale. Never had touched one, never touched a gripper, never did grip work. He sqeezed 107 right hand, 106 left hand.

Chad pulled like 260 at BBB, Jedd was right around 235-240 and who knows what Martin could pull. Then there's the matter of all the other events.

I am not sure what we are arguing, but I am unmoved. Jarred Rome does not purport to be a WSM competitor, he had completed TWO world class events (I guess he would be relatively spent), never touched a grip implement in his life, and squeezed on Dale Harder's Baseline Dyno. He has had hundreds of famous and not-so-famous people squeeze on it, and Rome's was up there. I would imagine that there are WSM competitors who would have significantly stronger grips than Rome, more experience with these types of things, etc. I don't see them getting "mopped" by anyone on the gripboard. If these guys cannot close a #3, they still have strong grips. I will say again, there is WAY too much emphasis on this board of what people can close. The strength for the last quarter inch of a close is gripper strength, but I am not sure what it translates into besides that. When someone new to the grip scene mashes a #3, it is amazing that can be done. But I don't think lesser of the WSM competitors' grips if they cannot do so.

[jad]

You could take grippers out and replace it with dyno and these guys would still get mopped by Chad, Jedd, Martin, etc..

I don't know about that. Dale Harder came to my town in May 2006 because the best discus throwers in the world gather in Salinas at the annual Throwers Meet there. Jarred Rome, a World Top 10 thrower, after competing in both the discus and the shotput, was handed a dyno by Dale. Never had touched one, never touched a gripper, never did grip work. He sqeezed 107 right hand, 106 left hand.

Chad pulled like 260 at BBB, Jedd was right around 235-240 and who knows what Martin could pull. Then there's the matter of all the other events.

I am not sure what we are arguing, but I am unmoved. Jarred Rome does not purport to be a WSM competitor, he had completed TWO world class events (I guess he would be relatively spent), never touched a grip implement in his life, and squeezed on Dale Harder's Baseline Dyno. He has had hundreds of famous and not-so-famous people squeeze on it, and Rome's was up there. I would imagine that there are WSM competitors who would have significantly stronger grips than Rome, more experience with these types of things, etc. I don't see them getting "mopped" by anyone on the gripboard. If these guys cannot close a #3, they still have strong grips. I will say again, there is WAY too much emphasis on this board of what people can close. The strength for the last quarter inch of a close is gripper strength, but I am not sure what it translates into besides that. When someone new to the grip scene mashes a #3, it is amazing that can be done. But I don't think lesser of the WSM competitors' grips if they cannot do so.

Well, how did Haugen do against Klein at the CA contest? I don't remember him winning. John Beatty is a Pro strongman and while competitive for sure, it's not like he wins BBB every year. 106 is great dyno pull, especially considerig he doesn't train grip, although I'm sure if you analyzed his training there would be plenty of stuff that taxes his grip. That said, even if dyno was an event, 106 isn't going to win at any big contest and it's certainly not that special for the big crushers out there.

I agree that just because some wsm competitor can't close a #3 doesn't mean he doesn't have a strong grip. Regarding guys with high dyno pulls but poor gripper performance: I would say they don't have the strength in their R&P fingers to put away the tough grippers/get that last 1/4". I guess if you don't think having strength in your weakest two fingers is useful, stay away from the grippers.

I also don't think that someone with 9" or more, hands pulling big numbers on the RT or playing with the Inch indicates they have a strong grip either. If Michael Jordan (HUGE hands) picked up the blob or the Inch would anyone really be talking about what a great grip he has? However, when a strength athlete with huge hands does it, we attribute it to their monster grip.

[oldtimer]

My good friend, Hubgeezer, notified me about this thread so I thot I'd post. Recently I attended the World's Championship Masters Highland Games in Kansas. I always carry my trusty Baseline dynamometr around (its range is 137 kg or 300 lb with both scales present on the dyno). While there, the best grip I found was by Myles Wetzel, 47, about 6'4, 300. This was his first try on the dyno and he scored an impressive 112 kg. When I asked him about his lifts, etc. he said he's dead lifted and squatted well over 700 lb. I believe him because among other things he won his age group 45-49 at this world championship. He also states he has chinned 17 reps at his 300 lb bodyweight and I wouldn't bet against him. Anyhow, the virtue of a dynamometer is that is has 4 or 5 different settings so that hand size isn't much of a factor as it with a gripper. I've had children, age 8 and younger use the smallest setting and it suited them quite well. If you were going to argue about who would win in a gripping contest--WSM contestants or the best guys from the Gripboard my answer would be that most likely the WSM guys would win. It all depends on which guys show up. I have a hard time believing that any guy on the Gripboard is going to beat Magnus Samuelson, Karl Gillingham, Brad Gillingham, Zydrunas Savickas, Vasyl Virastyuk, Andrus Murumets, Phil Pfister, Mikhail Kokylyaev unless it's the guys I name below and possibly one or two others. Maybe something can be arranged. At least one of these above gents usually works a booth at the Arnold, which comes up the first weekend in March. If I decide to go and the guy I'm thinking of agrees to use his booth as a rendezvous I'll get back to you and maybe anyone who wants to give it a go can drop by. It should be interesting. I'm not really expecting all of these WSM guys to show up but there's a good chance that one or two will. On the other hand I've seen Wes Peart's video of his 115 kg squeeze so he'd definitely be up there with the WSM grippers. I saw Ron Mazza punch out 100 kg about four years ago and I suspect he's a lot stronger. Clay Edgin has squeezed at least 116 kg at my house and I believe a few more kilos elsewhere. Dave Brown's not really on the board but I usually test him once a year at the Pleasanton Highland Games--I've seen him do 122 kg. So yes, there's some serious grippers out there. I'm not sure I'm going to the Arnold because I hate to leave the Bay Area in California for the snow and cold weather of Columbus, Ohio, plus the hassle of flying these days, but one of these days I've got to go just to see the big SM show not to mention that USAPL is doing powerlifting this time and the WLers are getting better every year. So if I do it'll be an open invite to one and all. Maybe we'll even charge admission.

[Wes]

When I did that Highland Games comp in Biloxi Myles Wetzel had almost every field record. There were whole rounds of "Myles stories". Guy's a legend

[oldtimer]

Okay guys the challenge is on. If any of you go to the Arnold this year drop by the GNC booth. I talked to Brad Gillingham (who has been in two Arnold Strongman contests--which is the real strongman contest as far as I'm concerned--because they have strenght events rather than endurance events for the most part ) and he's going to be manning the booth along with brother Karl (also competed in the Arnold SM twice) and brother Wade. Brad's not sure whether one of his brothers will bring a dyno but he runs the Grip Gauntlet every year. However I really want anybody that's there to give the dyno a try. Now if I go, and that's a big if, then I will definitely bring my dyno. Anybody that racks up 100 kg or more will get his photo in my NL "Dale Harder's Strength & Speed Newsletter" which does go out to Canada, England, Australia, New Zealand, Spain and the USA for now. Plus, I'll ad you to my list on my website www.strengthopedia.com. Plus you'll have bragging rights.

Please let me know how many of you will definitely go and I'll see what I can do. I just thot of something else--a very famous gripster usually goes to these things and I know he has a Baseline 137 kg dyno and also a RB Grip Tester (which reads a little different because it's spring-based rather than hydraulic). If he's going then that'll be my backup plan. Keep me posted if you're interested.

[Teemu I]

How does the Baseline numbers compare to Jamar dyno?

[RiotGrip]

How does the Baseline numbers compare to Jamar dyno?

They are fairly equal, but Jamar only goes to 90kg (200lb), and the heavy baseline goes to 137KG(300lbs). Both are hydraulic dynos and have near identical construction. And getting 100kg on a baseline hydraulic is not the same as 100kg on a baseline or lafayette spring smedley style dyno. The spring dynos are harder, and they cannot be "jerked" like the hydraulic ones.

If you look at the one video of Chad Woodall at the Sorinex grip gauntlet, he and Tex Henderson both got around 91 to 94Kg on the spring smedley style dynamometer(not the RBDyno) ( and admittedley after a lot of tough grip work). My point is both these guys could probably do a lot better on a hydraulic dyno. In fact I've never seen even video of someone pegging a 100kg spring dynamometer.

[Teemu I]

How does the Baseline numbers compare to Jamar dyno?

They are fairly equal, but Jamar only goes to 90kg (200lb), and the heavy baseline goes to 137KG(300lbs). Both are hydraulic dynos and have near identical construction. And getting 100kg on a baseline hydraulic is not the same as 100kg on a baseline or lafayette spring smedley style dyno. The spring dynos are harder, and they cannot be "jerked" like the hydraulic ones.

If you look at the one video of Chad Woodall at the Sorinex grip gauntlet, he and Tex Henderson both got around 91 to 94Kg on the spring smedley style dynamometer(not the RBDyno) ( and admittedley after a lot of tough grip work). My point is both these guys could probably do a lot better on a hydraulic dyno. In fact I've never seen even video of someone pegging a 100kg spring dynamometer.

I'm familiar with Jamar (have used that alot at work) but have never even seen a Baseline dyno. I've squeezed 90 kg on Jamar. Are you saying that 90 kg squeeze on Jamar dyno equals 90kg on the Baseline dyno that goes to 137 kg?

Also what actually means "jerking" the dyno? Might sound stupid but I'm not familiar with all the expressions you guys use.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Teemu I

[RiotGrip]

How does the Baseline numbers compare to Jamar dyno?

They are fairly equal, but Jamar only goes to 90kg (200lb), and the heavy baseline goes to 137KG(300lbs). Both are hydraulic dynos and have near identical construction. And getting 100kg on a baseline hydraulic is not the same as 100kg on a baseline or lafayette spring smedley style dyno. The spring dynos are harder, and they cannot be "jerked" like the hydraulic ones.

If you look at the one video of Chad Woodall at the Sorinex grip gauntlet, he and Tex Henderson both got around 91 to 94Kg on the spring smedley style dynamometer(not the RBDyno) ( and admittedley after a lot of tough grip work). My point is both these guys could probably do a lot better on a hydraulic dyno. In fact I've never seen even video of someone pegging a 100kg spring dynamometer.

I'm familiar with Jamar (have used that alot at work) but have never even seen a Baseline dyno. I've squeezed 90 kg on Jamar. Are you saying that 90 kg squeeze on Jamar dyno equals 90kg on the Baseline dyno that goes to 137 kg?

Also what actually means "jerking" the dyno? Might sound stupid but I'm not familiar with all the expressions you guys use.

Teemu,

With your no set strength, I'd be surprised if you couldn't get 100Kg+ on the baseline, but for the sake of argument, if all you could do was 90kg on the jamar, then your baseline score would be similar. Jerking refers to quickly squeezing and twisting the wrist on a hydraulic dyno, I don't have the technique to do this, but apparantly some can get 15 to 20kg more with a good "jerk". A spring dyno actually moves when you sqeeze, and will only advance from more strength, therefore it is harder to cheat.

If you are wondering I own three dyno's 1) a baseline 300lb dyno (which reads similar to a jamar), 2) a lafayette 100kg (220lb), and most recently 3) an original 150kg (330lb) robert baraban spring dyno that compares similarly to the lafayette. So the big difference is Spring vs. hydraulic in my opinion.

[Teemu I]

How does the Baseline numbers compare to Jamar dyno?

They are fairly equal, but Jamar only goes to 90kg (200lb), and the heavy baseline goes to 137KG(300lbs). Both are hydraulic dynos and have near identical construction. And getting 100kg on a baseline hydraulic is not the same as 100kg on a baseline or lafayette spring smedley style dyno. The spring dynos are harder, and they cannot be "jerked" like the hydraulic ones.

If you look at the one video of Chad Woodall at the Sorinex grip gauntlet, he and Tex Henderson both got around 91 to 94Kg on the spring smedley style dynamometer(not the RBDyno) ( and admittedley after a lot of tough grip work). My point is both these guys could probably do a lot better on a hydraulic dyno. In fact I've never seen even video of someone pegging a 100kg spring dynamometer.

I'm familiar with Jamar (have used that alot at work) but have never even seen a Baseline dyno. I've squeezed 90 kg on Jamar. Are you saying that 90 kg squeeze on Jamar dyno equals 90kg on the Baseline dyno that goes to 137 kg?

Also what actually means "jerking" the dyno? Might sound stupid but I'm not familiar with all the expressions you guys use.

Teemu,

With your no set strength, I'd be surprised if you couldn't get 100Kg+ on the baseline, but for the sake of argument, if all you could do was 90kg on the jamar, then your baseline score would be similar. Jerking refers to quickly squeezing and twisting the wrist on a hydraulic dyno, I don't have the technique to do this, but apparantly some can get 15 to 20kg more with a good "jerk". A spring dyno actually moves when you sqeeze, and will only advance from more strength, therefore it is harder to cheat.

If you are wondering I own three dyno's 1) a baseline 300lb dyno (which reads similar to a jamar), 2) a lafayette 100kg (220lb), and most recently 3) an original 150kg (330lb) robert baraban spring dyno that compares similarly to the lafayette. So the big difference is Spring vs. hydraulic in my opinion.

OK Greg, thank you very much for taking your time to explain. Now, I want to go and find some different type of dynos to try. It's been some time since I had a chance to try any. Last dyno I had a chance to try was a RB Grip Tester about 4 months ago, the new model that goes up to 120 kg, I got 85 kg on that.

You are referring to no set strength as an indicator how well a person will squeeze on a dyno. Do you think that open hand strength translates better to strong dyno squeeze?

Nice dyno collection by the way!

Edited December 15, 2007 by Teemu I