Mjoynt Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 How many people have CONSISTENTLY trained with the grippers for 5 or more years? When we start to get people training on them for 5 or 10 years, then, I believe, we will have multiple #4 closers and possibly a WC closer or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Plus, does anyone know what strength of materials means (Pat mentioned this) from an engineering standpoint, physics, and the human body? Does anyone know how much stronger an ape's grip (such as a gorilla or orangutan) is than a human's ? Might give us an idea what the upper limit of human strength might be. Maybe someone has convinced a gorilla to squeeze a hand dynamometer by now. I suspect a gorilla or orangutan would rep a world class like we would a #1. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotGrip Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Wannagrip, Just to clarify, When I closed the WC on my leg, I used the pressing power of both my arms, not just the squeezing arm. This was done by lining up my right hand like you would for a normal cheat-close, then grabbing my wrist with my left hand for extra stability/strength, and pushing down. It was still very tough. Also, I don't claim to know about the WC gripper from an engineering standpoint as Pat does, but I do know a lot about physics and even more about the human body. I don't know of any instance where someone's hand has broken or had a muscle/tendon tear in their forearm from squeezing a gripper (Correct me if I'm wrong). That being said, I don't think anyone on this board has a true idea of what the upper limit of human crushing strength is, because no one has trained with the grippers long enough. I'll admit, in my heart I do want someone to close the WC eventually. But, when I think about it from a scientific standpoint, I can't convince myself that it is an impossible feat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Say Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Does anyone know how much stronger an ape's grip (such as a gorilla or orangutan) is than a human's ? Well, I know a 130lb female orangutan deadlifted 600lbs EXTREMELY easily. (not trying to be funny, it's in Speed & Strength) & cavemen types a zillion years ago could literally tear an animal limb from limb with their bare hands after killing it. Dale Harder wrote that the anthropologist who told him that said that was possible because a caveman's bones were incredibly thick & dense, much more so than a homo sapien's. They would have made us look like birds! I still think the WC will go down though. 60-70 yrs ago people were dreaming about a 400lb clean & jerk, now lifters are approaching a 600lb c&j. Alexei Medvedev figured that the ultimate maximum possible limit of a lifter's strength is a 320kg (704lbs) clean & jerk & 270kg (594lbs) snatch, obviously nobody is anywhere close to those #s which is why I think it will be possible to close the WC someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Apes do not have an opposable thumb as we humans do so I think this would make it hard for them to close a gripper. You cannot compare us to animals. Does any species even deliberately exercise as we do to get strong? A male lion sleeps over 20 hours and leaves the hunting mainly to the female. Lions are incredibly strong as are many animals. Humans are not designed for strength but can become so through a great deal of exercise. I agree with Wannagrip that after a point, the force needed to close a gripper would be so great that the hand would break before that force could be reached. Having said that, such is the great variety of human beings, there is probably somewhere in the world somebody who does not train with grippers but who could still close the #4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 This may be, but the effect we get from training is a strengthening of all of these structures. Ligaments, tendons, bones, etc. all get stronger with training. Let's look at the deadlift-where there is probably one of the highest chances of tearing something. The poundges used and the awful angle of the body (usually) leads to some bad injuries. So, how is it that I went from a 400-pound pull when I was 18 to over 650 in my early 20s? My body adapted to the constant heavy pulling. My tendons and ligaments thickened. I once made 3 bodybuilders at the local gym cry in pain when I did SLDLs with 525-bowed back and all-for 8 reps. My brother, on the other hand, tried to pull 315 with no training under his belt and tore his spinal errectors-not pretty. It takes years to develope the strength-in all structures-to handle massive weights. The same is true with the hand. As far as freaky human beings go-its too bad Andre The Giant never squeezed a COC. He might have been that man who could close the #4 with no training at all. I once read his fingers were so big that you could fit a hard boiled egg through all of his rings-even his pinky ring :0 :0 :0 ! Rick Walker :hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 As far as freaky human beings go-its too bad Andre The Giant never squeezed a COC. He might have been that man who could close the #4 with no training at all. I am not sure about acromegalics being the best strength athletes. I don't think their strength is proportional to their size. My money is on the Monkey. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 I also read that he used to pick engines up out of cars for fun Strong? Heck yeah- Rick Walker :hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjoynt Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 How about The Big Show? ??? He's pretty huge, and I'd guess he's pretty strong too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Rick, You hear stories about these giants, but how come they never turn up at the olympics or a powerlifting meet and clean up? I know they are strong, but I doubt they are the strongest men in the world. All of that extra height isn't doing anything to improve your leverages in any of the lifts or the grippers. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 RSW- I dont know if you have ever seen Andre The Giant-but if you have, you would see that he certainly did not have the agility, flexability, or coordination to either olympic or powerlift. The man had trouble merely walking! Lifting sports require finess, believe it or not. Heck-I can't do a snatch without ending up on my a$$ and I consider myself pretty coordinated. But, the man was strong as an ox. He was a professional wrestler-why would he go to powerlifting or olympic meets? That wasn't his thing. many guys are strong and don't compete. I saw Chris Benoit (spl?) rep out with 405 for 8-10 reps like nothing on the bench press at Gold's Gym, State College, and you dont see him competing. I bet he could clean up in a 3-ply shirt at his weight class. He is making his $$ in the ring. Heres a little cut and paste from: www.puroresu.com/wrestlers/andre/andresi.html "Perhaps all of this could be dismissed in light of the often hyperbolic nature of one friend's memory of another, except for the validation of people like Ken Patera, four-time U.S. national weightlifting champion and still the U.S. record holder in the superheavyweight clean and jerk total. Patera was the first American to clean and jerk 500 pounds, and many knowledgable observers consider him to have been stronger than the Soviet Union's legendary Vasily Alexeyev during the early 1970s, when they vied for the world and Olympic championships. Standing 6'1" and often weighing well over 300 pounds, Patera entered professional wrestling following the Munich Olympics. He has wrestled Andre often and has seen him work on many cards. Patera is a rugged man from a rugged family, and he understands strength as few men do. "Let's put it this way," he responded recently to a question about the Brobdingnagian Frenchman. "I honestly believe that if Andre took a couple of years away from the game to train like the top lifters do, and if he developed a close personal relationship with his friendly neighborhood pharmacist, the world powerlifting records in both the squat and the deadlift would fall. No question. Think about it. He already weighs almost 500 pounds, with no lifting and no help from steroids. ####, he'd weigh 600 or 700 pounds and not be any fatter than he is now, and let me tell you, that's not very #### fat. He's a wonder of nature. I've seen him pick up a 250-pound guy like you'd pick up your overcoat. I guess you know what he did to Wepner." Rick Walker :hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 I found something that could be interesting on http://www.wwfitness.com/ . I don't know what to think about it but they give these "ratings" : bb beginner : 100 lbs bb advanced : 140 lbs bb master : 195 lbs bb elite : 280 lbs bb super elite : 360 lbs bb world class : 425 lbs If the estimates are good the world class is not a #5 but rather a #4.5 and i think it would be closed someday (and perhaps in no time). Anyway the information is pretty vague... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 ratings are just estimates. They are usualy no where near the real poundage required. I have a PDA rated at 387 inch-pounds. I can close it for reps-according to the ratings on the COC, a #4 is 365 inch pounds. So, if the ratings were correct, me and about 100 other guys would be mashing the #4! PDA really showed us that ratings mean nothing. I am not sure where these intial ratings came from-but they are just very rough estimations at best. I am sure the WC is well over 600 :crazy ! Rick Walker :hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 I have a PDA rated at 387 inch-pounds. I can close it for reps-according to the ratings on the COC, a #4 is 365 inch pounds. So, if the ratings were correct, me and about 100 other guys would be mashing the #4! Don't confuse pounds of pressure with inch-pounds of torque. The pounds of pressure refer to how much weight you would have to place on the handle to close it (like if you press it against your bathroom scale). Torque takes the length of the handle into consideration and calculates the closing force of the spring. 387 i.p. does not equal 387lb. of weight on the end of the handle. I think a #4 is 500+ip and ~360lb to close. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 You'll notice that I haven't said anything in this thread. Until now. Who here is LESS than a 1/4" away from closing the #4?? I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Snot- Give me a couple solid years of grip training. I will show you less then 1/4" and then some- Rick Walker :hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Crusher Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Rick, Where are you on the #3 these days? Ya gotta get that one before you can think about the #4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 The #3 has been closed-just not consistently enough that I am comfortable enough to do it for certification. I don't want to show up and miss it by a hair. As far as I am concerned-the #3 is done and BBE and BBSE are next. Rick Walker :hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikael Siversson Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Don't be disappointed if it takes much longer to reach your goals. Progress with grippers after the initial rapid gains can be quite slow. It took me six months of gripper training to close my #3. It took me another nine months of hard work to close Arne's #3 (which equals two full reps with mine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 That is the same as everything else. I gained 30 pounds of muscle my first 3 months of training and then struggle for 5 or more pounds a year after that. But, I am pretty confident when it comes to grip and I wont let anything stand in my way. Either I will close the big grippers-or destroy my hands-that is how serious I take it. Rick Walker :hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.