Some Impressive Newbies

[John Beatty]

Had a good Strongman training session yesterday with a new group pf guys, at the end after 800lb tire, log & axle, keg toss, frame carry, and stones, we tried a little bending. Everyone hit the grade 2, then two of the first timers got grade 5's, I wanted them to hit grade 8's, but we were out of time. both guys took down grade 5's easily. They have a comp in 2 weeks, so we won't train again for a month, but excited to get them to try again.

[Gripper42004]

Let me guess,DO up high with alot of padding? All that style is is basicly one big crush down,push'n on the ends.Most guys with a big bench can do G5 or better the first time out. I guess were not all about hand & wrist strength anymore.

[Alawadhi]

The big crush down has a lot of carryover to wrist strength. My best DU bend is a G5 with almost no practice at all. Gazza did the magnificent shiny DU and huge shiny reverse. And he is basically a DO bender. We don't need the old bending VS folding, small VS big pads threads anymore because people will get offended and fights will come. So it's a lose-lose thing to discuss.

[Gripper42004]

All I'm saying is that gains come faster with DO. I did a Red in about two months. Thats quick "4" a little guy.I still havent done it with any other style. Maybe cause I'm not training. I thought this was called the "Gripboard" not take the easy way board. I dont want to offend anyone. But maybe I will? I think that DO is ok.I'm just saying "I dont think DO is pure hand & wrist like other styles". We train "4" years to bend a piece of steel then here comes along someone & does it the first time with DO.Here is something else that gets me,people row'n steel spikes on the knee.Use yer thigh.I think the old time Strongmen would laugh at us for doing it. All of this is just what I think ,dont take it to heart.All the rules are driving me crazy anyway. Lets get back to have'n Grip'n & bend'n fun.There will always be people try'n to bust yer chops about something.

[dimmers]

oh my, i hope this doesn't open up a can of worms again

[gazza]

Tommy

I am a DO style bender and can bend with big wraps,medium wraps,small wraps and no wraps some half decent stuff in that style i way 198lbs so aint a big guy either i am lucky if i could bench 250-300lbs i also when fully fit from time to time bend other ways DU,Reverse,and your style i have had a bit of success with these styles also but my strength comes from isos and the DO style.

you have obviously been wanting to get this off of your chest as it seems to have been annoying you so i for one would welcome your further imput on the subject as i like to aspire to be like people like yourself and if that meant giving up DO style bending cause alot of the Elite people on here think its cheating thats fine by me I dont want to be associated with something that is looked upon as being/takeing the easy route.

I for one have always tried to reduce my wraps/padding as i went along and alot of my top bends have been done in wraps that offer less padding than a pair of ironmind pads i had someone here on saturday who i was helping with his bending and he can vouch for how minimalthese wraps are i also have a pair that are only 5inch x 5inch which i did a couple of decent bends with this was DO style but i have also used them for DU and Reverse and even useing your Style which i hope did not affend you as that was not my intension as i respect your accomplishments and know that you never take the easy route which is what i try to do by making a piont of reduceing the wraps as my body adapts i have even trained to bend some stuff bare handed but was seen as just trying to be a tough guy so i dont bother with it anymore.

I also bend the spikes under the kneecap these are the fbbc ones which are a good quality spike i have used this method to kink the 12-10 and 8inch spikes but i have also kinked these same spikes with the over the leg method which is harder for me because of the stability in my knees as i push down on the thigh i am waiting for an op on both knees i have not been braced bending very long and again i want to be seen as doing it right by my peers i dont want to be seen as taking the easy route so does this also apply to medium and long bends also i am quite prepared to ditch the under the knee/row if my bends are going to be questioned later again i for one welcome further thoughts from yourself about this.

something else i also cannot finish a braced bend between my thighs like others for 2 reasons dodgy knees and no leg strength due to not training them cause of the dodgy knees i have been pushing down on the spikes and other stuff to finish them again is this an acceptable method to use that is not seen as the easy way out as i have never tried to do that just abit of ignorance over certain bends and styles makes you bend that way.

I for one would be all 4 catalogeing how the old timers bend certain things bars,spikes etc and the methods and styles they used also the exact type of wrapping handkerchief etc because afterall aint we trying to follow in there footsteps

and if that meant doing away with certain styles like DO and leather wraps thats fine by me i would be more than happy to try and emulate some of there bending feats useing just what they did from as near as we can the steel,style padding or lack of etc i am glad that you have put your thoughts out there as i certainly feel that your accomplishmenta are second to none so again i personally would like to hear more of your thoughts on this subject.

[David Horne]

Tommy,

Just very quickly. I've just done an article, which will be on my site later, on the Steel bending and breaking contests/challenges of the 1950's. Anyway it was very interesting to see the photos. Geoff Morris would start his bend off under the knee. Over the 100 odd years of bending there has been so many different styles employed.

I'll put a link up later to the article.

David

[antarath]

I've tried doing my long bars using the thigh, but I can't seem to get it to work because of the length

Mats

[Gripper42004]

I got to thinking about this yesterday.I guess thats never good cause some people get offended. I was teasing Gary yesterday about his wraps.They were nearly 2in. thick.I told him he might as well be use'n Steel cheater pipes on the ends. He said that people on the board were use'n really thick wraps. It does make it easier. I just wish we could get away from all the rules & have fun.

[Scott Styles]

John, talk those guys into competing in October. Always good to get new faces involved.

[Gripper42004]

Mats

The reason its harder on yer thigh is because the triceps are used which are smaller muscles.The row uses yer back muscles which are bigger. My thing about use'n the thigh versus use'n the knee. When yer doing a show you dont want to use a style that the average person can use. I have seen a teen row a bar on his knee but he couldnt do in on his thigh. Plus it is very hard on the knee cause of the pressure. I want to walk as long as I can without injury,but thats just me.

[kerbjr]

The DO controversy is way old, no one in their right mind doubts this is the easiest way to bend, and likewise no one would compare their DO to any of the other styles cause it is apples to oranges....I definitley agree with bigger wraps making it easier, but as long as folks disclose the thickness of their wraps to make comparisons fair Ive got no probs......Dont understand the problem with pulling over the knee. Not sure I care what all the old time strongmen would think cause if they knew an easier way in their time most would of used it I think (my opinion only).. anyway I have heard a lot of cheating ideas used by old time strongmen like baking cards and phonebooks to make them easier...Just like anything else there are a few old timers that were golden and some that were stinkers.... P.S>Thommy, Still trying to find our supplier on those hot water bottles for you but nobody in the group remembers where we got them ..........

[David Horne]

Oh yes, I've heard some stories of what some old timers got up to!

It makes a thick wrap look like nothing.

David

[wscorpion]

Very impressive bends for people new to bending!!

I had typed a lot of text here about the everlasting battle between the different styles, but I decided to delete it since I don't feel like getting just another discussion on that subject

I just bend because I like it (and to compete in the UK Champions of Steel of course )

Edited August 6, 2007 by White Scorpion

[bencrush]

Wow Tommy. Seems like you've had that fat pad argument bottled up inside for a long time. Breathe...there you go. You're mega strong, but I'll tell you the same thing I'd tell some newbie to the board who can't even bend a Grade 5 yet: If the fat pads are so freaking easy then show us all up by beating us at our own game. Use your own fat pads and smash our records. Hell since it only took you "2 months" to bend the Red and that's not bad "4" a little guy, why don't you train another 2 months and smash one of the easier Top 5 bends on the list right now? That Big Shiny Bastard I did was just "one big crushdown, push'n on the ends" right? Heck for someone truly strong like you that should be an easy bend. Using your strength built through obviously more pure methods than mine.

You also mention that this is the GripBoard and not the taking it easy board. True. But it's also not the Ignorant Board the last I checked, and saying that a monster bend like a KOAB or higher is "one big crushdown" is just that. Ignorant.

Is it jealousy that prompts you to have such disdain for the high DO style? There are plenty of guys who are well aware that they're not as strong as you in many ways. I couldn't touch your bending style with the hands out from the body. But you couldn't touch me in my prime on the high DO either I'm guessing. Who's stronger? Bender of harder steel or bender who chooses the harder style of bending? In a contest the best bend wins.

I also think you're mistaken about DU and reverse bending such grip and wrist limited bending styles. I am not world class in either but in DU I'm bending Grade 8s and have notoriously weak wrist strength. How do you explain that? Cheating? Fat pads? No. Thin leather pads. No steel cheater bars.

You really can't win this argument with me. Even if you matched my best bend and beat everyone else on the board I'd only congratulate you. And eat a lot of crow. But if you couldn't match those bends quickly-since the style is cheating, unpure, and so easy to master-then you'd look pretty much like an idiot. A strong one though if that's any consolation.

[Tim71]

First, great job John! Sounds like those guys have alot of strength and could do really good in a very short period of time.

Second, John uses smaller pads, so I would assume that would be what he supplied to his buddies. Maybe John can say for sure but the FBBC pads I got are definately not excessive by any means. Smaller than average I'd say but I use them just fine. Maybe John can clarify for sure but you might be mistaken Tommy.

The pads have been discussed alot so I don't need to add any more. I simply use the pad that I need for the particular steel. And for me that starts at about 5/8 inch loosely wrapped for tough 60ds and G5s and go up a little from there. Tough 70ds and 5/16 CRS maybe gets me up to a little over an inch of tattered wraps. Just my personal preferences for the moment although they've changed alot over the past few months. Don't want to take over John's thread with any more than that.

Rowing? I personally don't see the big deal. Steve Mcgranahan uses it on the long bars (not spikes) and I consider him as legit as anybody going right now. Probably more so because his humility is truly inspirational for such a strong guy. As for spikes, I used to pull now I push. My personal preference, but if Mark Vogels, David Horne, Ben, AP whoever want to pull across their knee I have no problem with it personally. I've heard mentioned several times about being dangerous for the knee cap. I personally doubt you will find many medical experts who will endorse any style of steel bending. For 3 and 4 foot bars I pull around my knee, around my neck, over my head whatever I feel like. I like it all and I believe any is legal for David's braced lists.

Just my 2 cents and again, tell your buddys congrats John! Extremely nice start.

David, thanks for the historical insite. I've even seen a photo of a strongman pushing a spike against a concrete banister to get it started. I do believe that would be grounds for disqualification these days.

Like Tommy said though have fun. If a person wants to cert then cert. If they just want to bend steel then just bend steel.

Tim

[vikingsrule92]

Wow Tommy. Seems like you've had that fat pad argument bottled up inside for a long time. Breathe...there you go. You're mega strong, but I'll tell you the same thing I'd tell some newbie to the board who can't even bend a Grade 5 yet: If the fat pads are so freaking easy then show us all up by beating us at our own game. Use your own fat pads and smash our records. Hell since it only took you "2 months" to bend the Red and that's not bad "4" a little guy, why don't you train another 2 months and smash one of the easier Top 5 bends on the list right now? That Big Shiny Bastard I did was just "one big crushdown, push'n on the ends" right? Heck for someone truly strong like you that should be an easy bend. Using your strength built through obviously more pure methods than mine.

You also mention that this is the GripBoard and not the taking it easy board. True. But it's also not the Ignorant Board the last I checked, and saying that a monster bend like a KOAB or higher is "one big crushdown" is just that. Ignorant.

Is it jealousy that prompts you to have such disdain for the high DO style? There are plenty of guys who are well aware that they're not as strong as you in many ways. I couldn't touch your bending style with the hands out from the body. But you couldn't touch me in my prime on the high DO either I'm guessing. Who's stronger? Bender of harder steel or bender who chooses the harder style of bending? In a contest the best bend wins.

I also think you're mistaken about DU and reverse bending such grip and wrist limited bending styles. I am not world class in either but in DU I'm bending Grade 8s and have notoriously weak wrist strength. How do you explain that? Cheating? Fat pads? No. Thin leather pads. No steel cheater bars.

You really can't win this argument with me. Even if you matched my best bend and beat everyone else on the board I'd only congratulate you. And eat a lot of crow. But if you couldn't match those bends quickly-since the style is cheating, unpure, and so easy to master-then you'd look pretty much like an idiot. A strong one though if that's any consolation.

No disrespect to Tommy but I completely agree and I think this is a truly amazing post. Great post Ben!!!!

Edited August 7, 2007 by vikingsrule92

[GetAGrip87]

All the rules are driving me crazy anyway. Lets get back to have'n Grip'n & bend'n fun.There will always be people try'n to bust yer chops about something.

If all the rules are driving you crazy then why are you so worried about what size pads people are using.

John and his friends were just having a little fun Grip'n & Bend'n and you had to Bust their Chops and put down their accomplishments.

[lifesnotfair]

All I'm saying is that gains come faster with DO. I did a Red in about two months. Thats quick "4" a little guy.I still havent done it with any other style. Maybe cause I'm not training. I thought this was called the "Gripboard" not take the easy way board. I dont want to offend anyone. But maybe I will? I think that DO is ok.I'm just saying "I dont think DO is pure hand & wrist like other styles". We train "4" years to bend a piece of steel then here comes along someone & does it the first time with DO.Here is something else that gets me,people row'n steel spikes on the knee.Use yer thigh.I think the old time Strongmen would laugh at us for doing it. All of this is just what I think ,dont take it to heart.All the rules are driving me crazy anyway. Lets get back to have'n Grip'n & bend'n fun.There will always be people try'n to bust yer chops about something.

I don't bend, but Tommy did say that this is just what he thinks, and not to take it to the heart. Calling him an idiot might be a bit uncalled for?? If Tommy's words caused this reaction then they he just might have a point... ?

[Florian Kellersmann]

I don't understand why it's only the DO style, that gets the critique of beeing not so grip related ("just a crushdown"). As far as I know some people can use the folding style also with a DU grip (Martin Kotte, Mike Hadland? Gary Hunt?). In my opinion also the reverse bending technique is not just wrist and grip strength. What the shoulders and the chest are with DO style, the biceps and the triceps are with reverse style. If you have strong arms you can crush down a nail with reverse grip.

[dimmers]

I agree with that comment about other styles using more than just grip and wrist strength (besides DO). I believe most of the styles use some of the bigger muscles of the arm and body, that's one of the main reasons bending is such a good workout. Unless you're going to bend with your arms out straight in front of you (or behind you back or something) then i agree that wrist/hand/grip strength isn't the only factor involved in the bend.

But hey, bending is fun right? So unless the rules change on certs (which isn't going to happen after the last discussion) then we can use what is within the rules to do our best bends! That is the most fun thing about bending, setting new PRs and bending bigger/different/harder types of steel from one week/month to the next.

Edited August 7, 2007 by dimmers

[John Beatty]

Wow, let's get back to "gosh, that's pretty good for some first timers". I don't use big pads, but don't care what people do. The wraps we used Sun were some of my old wraps, fully wound up, less than an inch thick - that's total diameter, not radius. One was smaller, about 3/4" total. These weren't up high DO, they were in front of the chest DO mostly wrist torque bends i.e. not good form at all. I tried to coach them up higher, but they would start high & drop right down like most first timers. These weren't huge guys, the bigger was probably 6'2 & 220 ish, smaller was 6'1" & under 200. And we'd done a pile of strongman stuff first, so it was pretty impressive of them.

[Booyah!!!]

Tell them Congrats from me John Maybe next session a grade 8 bolt

[nickr104]

Wow, let's get back to "gosh, that's pretty good for some first timers". I don't use big pads, but don't care what people do. The wraps we used Sun were some of my old wraps, fully wound up, less than an inch thick - that's total diameter, not radius. One was smaller, about 3/4" total. These weren't up high DO, they were in front of the chest DO mostly wrist torque bends i.e. not good form at all. I tried to coach them up higher, but they would start high & drop right down like most first timers. These weren't huge guys, the bigger was probably 6'2 & 220 ish, smaller was 6'1" & under 200. And we'd done a pile of strongman stuff first, so it was pretty impressive of them.

That sounds Like Brent from our last gripmas at chris's place. Bad form hands down and out in front. I think he hit a G 8 first time bending. I think g5 is good if you have never done it befor. No matter how you do it. for a normal guy like most of us.

[GarytheDino]

I think those guys did good the first time trying after all those events.

My goodness, I didn't realize getting a witness this past weekend would be such a big deal. Tommy didn't like the thick wraps, but I didn't want to cut myself short using thin ones. I got the idea from posts I read here so thought I would try with thicker ones. I didn't try the double wraps though. I'll try that next, it should make for a better bend.

I've had issues with other sports just as Tommy does with bending. I won't bring it up because it does get some people wound up.

I choose not to participate in things that I feel have lost touch with reality. I'll admit that thicker wraps look kind of funny especially when you have to remove them for the crush down. It seems to be accepted by the bending community and doesn't cost me a fortune to use more so I'm ok with thick wraps. I would not want to bend much more than a standard red nail with the ironmind pads. It feels risky to me.

Why does bending have to be all hand strength though? DO bending lets me use some of the upper body strength that other sports use to.

We have so many ways to test hand strength. I don't see why bending has to be all hands. The crush is tough for me and does require much hand strength.

John also offers the bastard in all ways cert, which is what my opinion has always been. Who ever can bend something in all 3 basic styles is the best bender. This leaves nothing to the imagination.

Maybe a standard leather wrap would limit things from getting "to out of hand". lol