Bob Lipinski Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 1. Mostly contest 2 handed events (pinch, bending, etc.) or just one hand of other events 2. One endurance event or medley. Breaks things up and is usually fun to watch 3. Keep comp time to less than 5 hours- The above will help 4. Strongman type scoring- Easier to follow for competitors and others 5. Rounds system 6. One minute to count as an attempt- Too many of the friction lifts are just so touch and go with position. 7. I hate the vbar because of skin tears. I will still have it at comps, just not every one 8. People enjoy different events and unique events Not all of these are appropriate for a championship or world or maybe even national level contest, but these are great for local level comps. The name of the game at the local level is increasing participation, and to do that you have to have a contest that will appeal to local powerlifters, strongmen, throwers, and maybe even the average gymrat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Bob, Some great points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Styles Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I like how Bob has 2 setups for things like v-bar and pinch, putting the guys lifting below a certain weight on the non-official setup. It makes loading between attempts go much faster, and it makes the contest more accessible to the guys who aren't top lifters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubgeezer Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 3. Keep comp time to less than 5 hours- The above will help Odd Haugen, on leaving a Kevin Meskew production last November, grumbles out loud as he leaves, shaking his head, "Kevin and his 12 hour contests"...The psychos at the contests I go to (see current thread in this section) always want more events. On a serious note, Bob, why do you prefer Rounds versus Rising Bar? I am not an advocate of either, I would like to know the pluses or minuses of either. Also, I noticed at the British Championships, their "one attempt" approach. No 30 seconds, no one minute, you get one shot. For example, on Vbar, sometimes your hand position might not have been the best, and you wait a couple of seconds and give it another crack. Not there you don't. You miss, and it is like baseball, only it is one strike and you are out. That is why they are able to contest both hands in a contest and move things faster than us Americans. I like it both ways. At the contests in Southern California, I like to switch hands as the weights go up. It keeps the hands fresh, and if leftie fails on a weight, you switch over to rightie for the save. In Europe, each hand is contested separately, but it is one shot, so you better make it a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Blood on the bar at an Olympic meet stops everything while it's cleaned off due to blood borne diseases etc. I suppose at some point we might want to think about that during contests - that would mean a "clean" v-bar each time I suppose and two hand pinch as well. My "downer" thought for the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 One thing I think we all need to do better is bring new people into our competitions - actively try to get people to come - even if it's just to watch. So many people , even here on the board - seem to be intimediated and won't compete if they don't believe they can do well. I'm not sure what can be done but we should try at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autolupus Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Blood on the bar at an Olympic meet stops everything while it's cleaned off due to blood borne diseases etc. I suppose at some point we might want to think about that during contests - that would mean a "clean" v-bar each time I suppose and two hand pinch as well. My "downer" thought for the day. A "baby wipes" style sponsorship would work that one! "We clean so good, even strong men use us!" sorta thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Good points Bob. I especially agree with the hate vbar part.. However I might take it a bit further in saying a lift that is skin tearing, brings down your other lifts while not helping anything else doesn't belong in a grip comp. I still can't get that video of Chris ripping his bicep tendon out of my head either.. There was no reason for that to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makey98 Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 One thing I think we all need to do better is bring new people into our competitions - actively try to get people to come - even if it's just to watch. So many people , even here on the board - seem to be intimediated and won't compete if they don't believe they can do well. I'm not sure what can be done but we should try at least. I see what you are saying and agree. I think the best way for this would be to maybe have a kind of class or division system. I don't know the best way to segment this but I feel that people will be less intimidated if they can compete in a novice division that they could win. In tennis, people are assigned a rating based on their general skill level and they can compete in teams or singles against other people in that division. Obviously, grip isn't a "skill" so this would hard to determine, but segmenting by age/weight wouldn't work at all.... just throwing out some ideas. Maybe all the #2 gripper closers could compete against other #2 closers in various events. I think that more people would be more willing to compete if they could win or do well in a division against people that are close to their level. Prizes or something for all the divisions would help in my opinion. I have training grip for a while, but I am nowhere near being competitive in a contest. I would like to go and attend the BBB3 and plan on doing so, but at the same time I am slightly nervous of embarassing myself. I will go anyway, but I would guess alot of people who are newer to the sport would not attend and a class system could maybe push them over the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Styles Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 At the Michigan contest last weekend, 4 of 14 people failed on the #2, myself included. The novices are already out there competing, I think part of the challenge is getting others to realize that. I was happy to lose no blood last weekend, most people did. V-bar and pinch were the worst events for this. Given the friction based lifts are such a big part of the grip game, I'm not sure how you avoid it. It's really a question of whether or not equipment is cleaned after someone loses blood on it. I'd prefer it was, but it definitely has implications for the rest of the event should that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lone Wolf Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 I''ve been to a couple contest and from the 1st on I was competing with kevin Bussi & Adam Demnowicz same weight division 225 lbs and had a great time and learned a lot and everyone was very helpful and came away with alot of pr's . I didn't plan on doing as well as I did on my 1st contest I pulled 48 lbs. on the IM hub with the help of kevin on my technicque. If you can go in with a positive attitude and just to have fun you will do well in every contest. And that was at that 12 hour contest Hubgeezer was talking about. I left home in the dark and got home in the dark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted August 5, 2007 Author Share Posted August 5, 2007 I like rounds better cause it gives people more time to rest up for attempts. I think most of the gain in time for rising bar is likely lost by people resting 2-3 minutes or whatever is allowed for following themselves. I don't think the European guys have fast contests for the most part- I think I remember stories about contests going past midnight. I think there are some hardcore grip guys that could go forever on the stuff, but then you lose out on drawing people who just want to try something different and fun. About awards and divisions for novices- I would hate to see grip go the way of powerlifting, where competing doesn't really mean anything because of the dilution of the classes. From what I have heard from most of the lower level (at this last contest I would be in that group!) guys is positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makey98 Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 About awards and divisions for novices- I would hate to see grip go the way of powerlifting, where competing doesn't really mean anything because of the dilution of the classes. From what I have heard from most of the lower level (at this last contest I would be in that group!) guys is positive. Yeah, I see what you are saying. I was trying to think of ways to get more people at contests and promote the sport. I have never been one to support awards for first of the worst, but I was just thinking about what climber was saying. I like the idea of speeding up the contests by one attempt and like the idea of mostly two handed events, but would be wary of too many lifts that involved moving massive amounts of wieght. In my opinion if you are dealing with weights over 300lbs then your grip is not really an issue and it is more of a lift itself. I don't really care about records and all, but for me to have the world record in the v-bar I would have to lift 200lbs over bodyweight. I couldn't even oly bar DL that at the moment. I personally would like for it to be possible for a person weighing from 150-350 to be able to win a contest. I also like the idea of having an endurance event. I saw at the BBB3 last year they did a scale weight hold for time which sounds pretty cool. Mostly on this board people are training for max strength and I haven't seen anyone really posting endurance type stuff. I thought it would interesting in my training to work on some of that stuff. As far as scoring, anyone thought about a tournament bracket style grip contest? That would be kind of cool. Just some thoughts....i am clearly bored tonight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 I, too, don't much care for 1" v-bar due to the skin tearing issue, but the 2" v-bar is a great alternative. I like your ideas, Bob. As far as scoring goes I still prefer awarding 10 points to the winner of each event, and then awarding a percentage of that 10 points to the follow up lifters. This way someone who is heads and shoulders above the others in an event will be given credit for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted August 5, 2007 Author Share Posted August 5, 2007 Eric, I like the percentage method also, but with some events it gets difficult, specifically bending and grippers. Now though, with gripper calibration it might be easier. With steel there is the difference in lengths but I am sure we could normalize that. I did one contest with coefficients, and it made scoring a little more difficult. The main drawback was that the competitors had a much more difficult time figuring out what it would take to win. The contest I had was very close, so it took alot of effort on my part to get them the #'s they would need to attempt for the win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 When i attended the 2002 British grip Champs a certain 3 closer was in the open category i wont mention his name as its not the right thing to do but based on his 3 closer he was automatically put into the open category which it became evident that he was totally out of his depth a 3 closer does not make you an all round grip person.I feel this person like alot probably specialised on the number 3 gripper but was obviosly not upto scratch on other stuff should he have been put into that possition he has never competed since. Alot of new commers here on the board do the same they chase the 3 but fail to bring up there other stuff that might be whats holding alot of them back from competing thinking because they can close said gripper they will be categorised when they have a good crush but need work on the other stuff. regarding the blood issue can the mager comps not use to sets of the same implements{costly but might be an alternative} on the v-bar and pinch say maybe the blobs as well this might help and would also speed up a comp with alot of entrants in it it would/might need 2 referees tho but it might be an alternative for the big comps to cinsider that way if one piece of equipment goes down due to blood loss providing the bothe both sets of equipment are seasoned then you just use the 2nd set or you use both sets at the same time etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 I had a few ideas for my contest that might be of interest.... 1) 3 attempts in max weight events - this seems to be standards across other strength sports - I know Grip is a fledging sports in most areas and further attempts might help novices to find their correct level of strength, but remember that as organizer it is not up to you to ensure that competitors acheive their maximum lifts, it is up to the competitors themselves to find their limits. This also goes to getting their setup correct so that they don't need to take 30 seconds to make a lift - which is why the "one attempt" per round seems to work well. 2) Rising Bar - more than anything, I wouldn't want to be the loaders who have to fiddle around contunually adding or subtracting weight. Further, for any audience, I always feel rising bar is more exciting and transparent to the crowd than the round system. 3) In Strongman they quite often have Log events where everyone has to lift the log at each given weight, one miss and your out. The twist I like is that the judge only gives each competitor 30 seconds or so to make the lift. As competitors drop out the remaining lifters have to lift more often, and a real sense of momentum develops for the competitors and crowds. 4) Safety concerns should demand that the bar is cleaned each time body fluids get on the bar - that is a no brainer? If that defeats the point of using a highly chalked bar then so be it - although surely it takes no more than a minute to clean the bar/apparatus??If this is going to be a huge problem then it is up to us as a sport to decide what direction to go in. I like the idea of a 2" V-Bar as being less potentially damaging to the hands if that proved necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoC#3 Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 I too am not a fan of the v-bar. When i train it, my other lifts go down because it takes me ages to recover from it. This annoyed me leading up the the british iron grip so i gave up on training it. The v-bar causes skin tears and this will ruin a grip comp if everyone's hands are torn up too early on. More importantly it is very injury prone. I have strained (fortunately not torn) both biceps training it in the past. This is from how the v bar rotates. It was this spin that caused Chris James to snap his tendon. If i were to promote a contest i would not include v bar for these reasons. Lifts where BIG WEIGHTS are moved seem to attract the most attention from the crowd. The one hand lift was the most popular at the british. 1 minute should be given to complete the attempt, not just 1 go and hard luck if you don't get it. I agree with Hubgeezer's post on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 I like the round system but using rising bar rounds would have made it a little easier on the loaders for the V-bar and 1 hand deadlift especially. Start the round with the lightest weight rising bar having everyone just go once. Then for round 2 reset the bar to the lightest weight again. That way competitors get a rest, you get increasing weights near the end of each round, and competitors can directly see people near them and what they have to beat. I hate the v-bar too but originally the 1" was used to nullify hand size advantage. Does the 2" make hand size a big factor, I'm not sure. If so thats ok, promoters should just take that in to consideration when balancing a contest. I was the one that bled all over from the thin pinch, sorry about that! Its definitely part of the sport, but seeing so many guys lose skin on the v-bar must have been tough to go straight to the 1 hand dl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 I am also thinking that if your performance on one event (ie. V-Bar) is negatively affecting your performance in others (through skin tears etc) then maybe you shouldn't be lifting so much on the one event - think about the overall rather than the individual events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Styles Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Personally, I get nothing out of a 4th attempt and would prefer to see 3 attempts, with a 4th attempt allowed in the event of ties. I get tired and definitely favor a shorter contest. Half the fun is what happens after the events. Having just got a 2" v-bar, it definitely favors a big hand. Most thick bar events do, so I really have no problem with it. I think skin loss is still a possibility, but much less likely. It would also reduce the injury risk. I'm at about 60% of my 1" v-bar lift on the 2" v-bar. I have never lifted in a rising bar contest. I think I would prefer it as AP described. It sounds like things would move faster and there would still be sufficient time to rest. Tim and Brian were good sports about the loading, but changing plates over and over had to suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKlein Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 i Rarely have skin tears on the 1 inch v-bar and i train it once a week. i think if people trained it properly (consistently) the skin tears would stop. i don't think the 2" v-bar is a good subsitute at all because hand size now becomes a factor. who cares about a little skin tear anyway, we are all tough guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoC#3 Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 (edited) 2'' v bar would be a good substitute event. It takes the tearing issue out of it. It still doesn't solve the bicep injury risk though. Big handed guys are advantaged on most things anyway (except for a euro 2hp which was no doubt invented with small hands in mind - to further expand on this point this idea is like allowing those with small hands to use chokers on grippers) so i doubt it'll make too much of a difference. Edited August 5, 2007 by CoC#3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Actually the adjustable pinch apparatus was devised so that it allowed large or small handed lifters to find and use the perfect width. Because just as a too thick a pinch is hard for small hands, a too thin a pinch is equally hard for a large hand. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 The adjustable pinch apparatus is perfect, i think. I don't think you could possibly improve on the concept. I hate v-bar myself, but I have only ever torn my hands up one time, and that was when i was experimenting with a new technique/hand placement. I tend to agree with Ryan on the hand conditioning concept. I mostly hate v-bar because it irritates the skin so much during the contest. You feel the heat the rest of the show. I enjoyed pulling the 2-inch v-bar at the TPS Grip Assault, but it still made my hands very red and irritated, so i tend to believe it will still cause hand cuts if the hands are not prepared for the pulls. Plus, as was mentioned, it brings hand size into the equation. I think one thing that should be considered more is the hand size categories. It makes no sense to me to contest open hand events and then have people with 7-inch hands going against people with 9-inch hands. We use them for GGC, but do not recall them being used in any other contests. As a promoter, I like rising bar where the weights never come off. As a competitor i like to have as much time to rest as possible, so I guess rounds would be my preference. But remember, when I am promoting an event and rising bar is used, I am also competing, so it's not just the other participants who are being forced to recover quickly - I have to as well. i train specifically for this by limiting my rest periods in my training sessions. 4th attempt, in my opinion is for strategy purposes. It allows you to keep on in the tank for a record and use the three previous attempts to win the comp/event. At the pinch at MGC07, where rounds was used, i was able to make big jumps and take a risk and if I made it, I benefited. if I missed, I could still drop back down. The 4th attempt was priceless in allowing for this experimentation. We were toying with the idea of having a novice category this year, but I fear it is too late to throw that in now, and plus we are already very tight on time, since the gym closes at 2 PM. Next year, if we can get an open-ended facility (hopefully I have a garage gym by then instead of a basement one) we will be able to have more categories and get more people interested. great topic. Looking forward to reading more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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