Grip board book

[Guest Canthar]

I think "The Grip Encyclopedia" is very fitting aswell. Multiple author's and contributors and wide, in-depth topic coverage.

Has anyone volunteered or is anyone starting to compile a list of the various ideas for topics that has been suggested? Also this person could get some input via. email and private messages and then posted for everyone to see.

[Nathan Say]

There could be a bunch of different books, but bound as one volume. There would be a bunch of different authors like there is for any other encyclopedia (what Tom said) & there would be an editor/editors for the whole thing. There could be a book on each of crush, pinch, wrist, forearm, thick bars, bending, individual finger strength & maybe one for strengthening the hands for other lifts. There are a bunch of people who want to strengthen their grip for deadlifting/shrugging/chinning but not interested in grip specifically, right? Maybe some of those could be in the same category but I thought I'd throw them out. It would be good to get the actual routines (or at least routine outlines) or people who have made huge lifts eg DH's 140-something pinch, Richard S's/Nathan Holle's/Heath's big time crush, DH's big time plate curl, Tom Black's bending, Steve G's thick handle lifting, Roark's huge lifts in grip history, etc.

[Nathan Say]

Will there be a chapter on KTA once it gets revealed to us non-KTAers, Wannagrip?  

[Sybersnott]

How about "The Grip Strength Encyclopedia"?  I like that!  

It would be THE definitive source for (how-to) building hand/grip strength.  Tools and techniques from COC's and other devotes of building grip power.  I think Richard should be the one to write the foreword, since he's the 1st COC.

[gazza]

I agree with Snot,on the title,andMr.Sorin doing the forward,

How about,some asking Mr Kinney to do an article on negatives and the 4*.How about anarticle by Slim on levering,

Jim Whylie on verticle bar lifts,Mobsrerone on weaver lift,

Mr.Horne on what ever he holds the record in(to numerous to

pick one),Mr Sorin on his records etc.

[mobsterone]

Gazza I agree 100%. Indeed with regards to 1stCoC you could say that he, more than most, brought our attention back to grip. I'd be willing to ask both PDA and Ironmind for a little input as manufacturers of such tools.

Re my weaverstick, inch and other thick handled stuff. I have forwarded three sections (the 2808 words) to Joe already. However, I also think a 'round table' a la T-Mag.com and one or 2 of the glossies can work.

That way you get a better spread and you could work it thus:

Basics (group opinion subject to agreemen), expert opinion (by best in the world or well respected grip man), history & records (by J 'the man' Roark ).

I'll try and find time to post a example soon. Joe I'll email you to gt help..

[mobsterone]

Here's a piece I sent Joe. Don't forget that both DH and John Brookfiled have done something similar and their work could easily be better and so replace whole sections. Also Joe cold add both the records section (as could DH from his comps and Kevin Fulton from his) and the history. Please feel free to see what could be added to this one section - your input will make the boojk, as we Brits say, a blinder. With your help it will be THE REFERENCE SOURCE!!

Thick handled lifting

Dumbbells and Barbells - solid and revolving

For those of you who wish to ‘have a go’ at this specialized form of Grip work be aware that those who have practiced it have almost always found a great difference in the weight they can lift on a solid dumbbell or barbell as opposed to a more modern (1900 onwards) plate loaded bar. I would go so far as to offer as much as a 30% difference on some lifts.

The importance of the thumb

Both David Horne in his grip courses and John Brookfield in his books (see bibliography) have stated that they consider the thumb of great importance in many forms of Grip lifts but very much so in Thick Handled lifting.

I agree with an added ‘but’. On solid or non-revolving bars the thumb is an added extra that will pile on pounds when compared with a thumb-less grip. However, on revolving bars a ‘hook’ or thumb-less grip (see hook grip / index) can be just as effective. More so for those with less than average hands.

‘Tricks’ and Tips by the best.

Having lifted as much as 259 pounds in the past on a 2.5 inch handled and plate loaded dumbbell set up to be a solid as possible I can hopefully offer a few tips or techniques.

• Trick One: Hand positioning. I am in favour of placing my hand as far to the back and against either the globed or discs weights as possible. This has the action of stopping the weight revolving thus making it ‘easier’ to lift.

• Trick Two: If you are cleaning and pressing or doing over-head weight work then momentarily allow the ‘bell’ to settle into a natural position in your hand/s. Some of the older ‘bells are ever so slightly bent from age and use and this settling will allow the bar to centre itself into a better pressing position. The longer the bar the more likely this is to help.

• Trick Three: Using the first ‘trick’ when pulling the bar from the floor in say a Deadlift will mean one end rises first. If you are strong enough to lift it clear then again allow the bar to settle before pulling it higher.

• Trick Four: Hook grips can be used on most bars, if you have large enough hands pretty much on any bar/s up to and including 2-inches. Beyond this only freaks will enjoy any success with this technique!

• Trick Five: chalk well (include a little between the fingers, they will spread when you grip hard) and using trick one chalk the outside of the palm on the opposite side to the thumb. Thus when it comes into contact with the globe or weight will give added adhesion.

• Trick Six: small increments – Stuart McRobert calls them ‘little Gems’, some Olympic lifters call them ‘record breakers (PDA make them). They are less than one pound (even 100 grams). To be a record breaker you only have to lift a little more and to make good consistent progress these are essential.

• Trick Seven: Timed holds or holds. I have when training to pull the original Inch dumbbell found that there were weeks when progress could be made and then I would hit a wall for 1 or 2 training sessions. I would then drop a few pounds of the ‘bell I was attempting to lift and instead pull it just clear of the floor and keep it there until I thought it was about to drop and quickly put it down.  

Techniques

Different lifts require differing styles and I point the reader to the index. However, I will include the techniques which apply to all grip lifts – thick handles especially.

The novice lifter or OHF/AOBS/ARNOLD CLASSIC ‘having-a-go’ type when confronted by a the Inch Replicas sold by Sorinex will when attempting lifting such bells treat it as a Deadlift on a standard bar. Their hands will wrap around and become hook-like and they will pull. Some of these lifters are good for 600 pounds on a 1 and 1/16th inch standard bar. However, when confronted for the first time by thick handled and heavyweight beast, they find the bar twists and the wrist drops. The ‘bell seems to want to roll out of their hand and they attempt to negate this by turning the wrist, making it harder as they are now almost attempting to wrist curl the bar never mind pull it off the floor.

What needs to be done is as follows (normal text applies to dumbbell Deadlift – italics applies to any grip lift):

The non-lifting hand or forearm rests on the knee (left hand left knee etc) and the other grasps the handle.  The lifting hand is, especially for big record lifts, well chalked. Taking your position (refer to tricks) grip the bar. Not just a normal bar type grip but a squeeze across the whole of the hand, using every finger and especially the thumb grip. Get as much contact with the handle as is possible. You aren’t trying to lift the ‘bell with one part of your hand but every part. Do not turn the wrist, this is a weak position, but keep it straight down or in a neutral position. Don’t try to pull the shoulder back or move it but either allow it to drop forward or keep it still. Then pull the bell clear of the floor as you would in any barbell or dumbbell Deadlift.  

Records

History

Bibligraphy

references

other sources of information

[Roark]

It is important to remember that this is a project

dependent on volunteers, and that, while all these

suggestions may have a place as the ebook evolves,

we have yet to take our first step.

Although my computer skills are barely one step past

the Caveman Exit Here sign, and Wannagrip will handle that

duty, I suspect as we build this book, many sections will be

posted 'Under Construction' until the project advances.

I will have the proposed Table of Contents ready by the first

day of August (yes, 2002) and I suspect debate will flourish

over that presentation.

The splendid characteristic of an ebook is that you can click

on only what interests you, and bypass what does not.

At the moment this is at least a temporary order of a topic.

For example Pinch Gripping:

Definition of Pinch Gripping and Implement Dimensions

Brief History

Training Suggestions (by those at advanced levels)

Records

References/Bibliography

These can have subdivisions of course.

So please be patient because as more people are involved, more time will be needed, but when the book is complete, it

will in fact be complete, hopefully.

To return to my first paragraph, this is a volunteer project,

so it may be that some with commercial interests may not wish to participate. If that's the case, let's please understand

that we are asking for them to give what they usually sell, and

how many of us would do that in our fields?

Let us, as Vic Boff ends every phone call, 'Carry on!'

[Guest IrNLifter]

Well, being something of a newbie here, I know what I'd want to see in such an encyclopedia:

pick a number of chapter titles:

Pinch grip, levering, thick handles,grippers etc...

There is such a tremendous number of talented people on this board, why not have several people in each specialty weigh in with their training methods, records and other relevant information. Maybe 5 or 6 experts in each chapter.

 That's what I'd like to see...and one more thing, ya think we could get Slim Farman to contribute about levering...the guy's 70, we have to... HAVE TO! get as much of his knowledge on paper as we can, for posterity....

[Nathan Say]

I think there should be a compilation of all the people who have closed at least a IM #3 gripper, official or not & every notable lift they've done at any point in their lives. That means someone would have to go through every issue of Milo & then find out what all the CoCs have been up to since they were profiled in their Milo issue. Name, stats (height weight, etc), best lifts (not limited to grip), etc. That's for CoCs & non-CoCs, anyone who has closed at least an IM#3. eg Mark Henry has closed a #3 whichever way he felt like closing it, & c&p-ed an Inch replica & deadlifted 904 (or something), except the real version would be much more in depth, like those short biographies of people like Rigoulot & Davis, et al in the Super Athletes. More information=better.

PS I'm w/IrNLifter...there's so much information on this forum & elsewhere, but not much is on paper. If someone finally did get it on paper, it could possibly be a book the size of Artie Dreschler's Weightlifting Encyclopedia, except it would be just for grip.

[Nathan Say]

I still like my idea for having a bunch of contributors with 1 or 2 editors who will organize the whole thing & make the finished product, just like any other encyclopedia. Just as there is in the Super Athletes, I think there should be all the huge lifts in a certain category, like crushing, pinching, bending, wrist/foreaarm strrength, 1-2 finger lifts, etc etc since the Super Athletes was published. I think Willoughby got everyone since before his time, so there's no need to repeat anything he wrote, but it's been 35 years or something since then & there's been some excellent lifting going on since that time. This book could be really ambitious, & I don't think it would be worth doing if it's going to be half-assed. I think others would agree that they wouldn't put their names on it if it is going to be drivel.

[Roark]

Nathan,

Some good remarks, and a bad remark.

Yes, there should be an section for those who are

CoC's.

Yes, many people should contribute, perhaps writing sections

where their specialities are relevant.

Yes, this book will eventually, or could eventually,

become the reference book of default, to which any

researcher might go first regarding grip.

On the Garage Gym recently there was a post by

someone who, innocently, but ignorantly, thought he

may have invented a lift which has in fact been around

for decades- so to assume that what Willoughby presented

in The Super Athletes is common knowledge and not in need

of re-inforcement is a mistake, I believe. We still have people who are coining phrases that do not need coining. For example,

instead of writing French grip, a several word description is used.

Your comment about drivel was not well received by me. I

have volunteered to be one of the editors, and fancy that

I do indeed have a sense for sorting the serious from the

silly, and your comment implies that whoever has some control

over content (editors) may allow the inclusion of drivel.

Of course, drivel is in the mind of the beholder, and if the

editors allow in material you deem drivel, perhaps you can

discuss that with the author of the piece.

[Guest Canthar]

I have to agree with not worrying about repeating known facts and other information. Re-inforcing knowledge is what helps people learn and in the long run it is what preserves history.

Nic

[Nathan Say]

I only meant that the material should be clear & in depth etc. If someone makes a weak attempt at writing something when they could obviously do better would make it drivel & ok, but with more effort it would be really good.

[Guest Canthar]

Definitly want people to do thier best, and I am pretty sure everyone here that wants to contirbute wether by writing, editing, organizng etc. will do thier best. This is definitly a group effort and a long one at that.

Nic

[1stCoC]

I really like the format in the book Super Athletes. In accord with this I think "the ball could get rolling" by having the modern day grip guys each give a personal listing of what THEY in their own opinion have done of merit...select and in a breif format list, and explain their top 5 grip related accomplishments.This information then could be easily arranged into encylopedia type entries in a book.Even after meeting many of our grip guys I know little of what they have really done.  I feel a wealth of knowledge could be gathered quickly and FIRST hand, not watered down or content lost as when stories are told by "others".Sir Roark this could be a great thing!

[Roark]

Sound idea! When may I expect your input?

Thanks!

[Roark]

Please offer suggestions as to who 'the top five'

gripmen are:

I would suppose 'all-round' grip strength would be a

prime factor in being one of the top 5, but what do

you think? Also top 5 or 6 or 7- we do not plan to

leave any worthy candidate out.

Richard Sorin, of course should be included, and David

Horne, and......

Richard, dates, places, witnesses when possible in

your report. We want to be laser specific.

[David Horne]

It sounds a good idea. But personally I think one person should be in command of the layout and what goes in. Ask me what you want when you get to the parts that I may be of help with.

David

[Roark]

Right now we are walking in a dark, windy tunnel with a

flickering candle for light.

Wannagrip, with some help from me, and others, hopefully,

will coordinate the input.

But no input, no co-ordination of it.

I will have the tentative table of contents on the board on

Aug 1, 2002. In the meantime, those who have input could

be forming ideas/structure for it.

But really there is little to do until Aug 1-except discuss ideas.

[Nathan Say]

never mind this, just look at the next one. hmmm think about the irony, I want to be a proofreader & i mess up like this  :crazy

[Nathan Say]

I can be a proofreader if anybody needs one. I just finished my 1st yr english courses & I'll be starting a 2nd year one in Sept.   Just send me the stuff as email attachments.  

[Guest Canthar]

Roark, another idea for collecting those names and Ideas as I know some people who out of modesty may not agree with thier name on said list. Is to have somone collect those names via. email off the board and then post them after a set of time. That will keep things less cluttered and make organizing easier to move from one step to the next. This can be used for any kind of brainstorming.

Nic

[Roark]

I had not anticipated anyone becoming hesitant about

being included. Frankly, though Sorin and Horne and others

at high levels are not arrogant, they have the insight to

understand that they are watching others climb the

mountain to visit them.

Hopefully the accomplishments of a person will demand

inclusion. Frankly, if Sorin or Horne wrote and said they

did not feel worthy, I would ask them to write back when

they sober up, or at least when they become accustomed

to that thin mountain air.

This is why I ask for input: If many people suggest a person

to be included, the person has not nominated himself, or

herself, and is freed of appearing eager or arrogant.

The email off board, or pm on the board sounds inviting.

[Guest baldy]

One thing that I would be interested in: When you do the bio on the greats like Richard, David, etc. it would be cool to have a small section detailing some of their other feats of strength. In addition to being an awesome gripper, Mr Sorin has a good PL record, strict curl, etc. Mr Horne has mentioned some HUGE neck lifts, hip lifts, stone lifts, etc. Even though that stuff isn't *directly* grip related (and I say that loosely), it would be great to know what kind of poundages people are putting up in other lifts. It doesn't have to be an all-inclusive list, just a couple of lines of "small print" detailing the highlights. An aside, if you will.

If Joe and the other team members don't find this appropriate then scrap it. However, I think it would be useful. Even though this is a grip book, I don't think any of the people being profiled would be "grip only" trainers.