World Grip Council

[gamidon]

What was the rules for governing the number of elected members? I just read this thread and agree completely with Frankyboy. Is there more brits than Germans competing? I don't know the answer to this but if not then why is the German contingent set at one and the Dutch set at one? No offense to our boy Dutch here but I hear about a lot of German comps but I don't know if there has ever been a Dutch one (actually he attends the German ones ) For the panel to be fair I would think representation should be based on number of competitors and competitions. If Germany has more competitors shouldn't they have more say in how the competitions are held and the rules that apply? If you ignore this now you will loose that which you desire and that is a panel that has any value. Clearly if the Germans are questioning their representation they will start to question decisions from the panel. I would guess it will not be long before the Germans break from the panel.

Greg

[mobsterone]

The power of suggestion. Frankboy has made it clear he didn't want to be on the commitee and you got him leading a rebellion to part from something which hasn't started yet and to which he is playing no part other than an interested party.

The number of competitors is a fine example. On that basis the GGC in 2004 had 18 and a similar number last year. Yet as many as 12 have trained, never mind competed with David Horne and I think we had one year where the open was one day and the novice the next cos there was so many. This year there is a novice in Stafford and an open in Gloucester. And so on.

Baring in mind people need 1) to vote, 2) were asked to discuss it and over some period of time 3) that it can all change once any kind of commitee is in place as opposed to none and 4) talking of walking out before we have begun serves no purpose at all.

When would we get started? How many board members have voted, from the 4000+ listed as members 200? Why, baring in mind I have given a reasoned reply, would the Brits have more than the Germans and so on?

I do think Mikeal was wrong to talk of a standard but if we did then they have some fine bar benders (least of all Franky) and a good gripper (Florian) yet have not even been in the top 3 at the Europeans an have had no one attend the GGC. They do compete and travel as a team when they attend the Euros. At the first Euros Dean Bolt was in the top three and had competed once. The single Swiss rep beat all our arses last year including the Germans and so on. So while Moser is a fine promoter and gets a good turnout at his events we have yet to see a German rise to the top level.

I think even those that would wish to see more representatives for Germany would accept The Swiss as putting on a competition or two and this being allowed to have a representative. The Dutch has, thus far, seen neither hide nor hair of any other competitors in Holland and yet is of a standard to beat all the Germans he has competed again - all of them - every single one.

No one can deny that the Australians are putting on events - two in the last few months (inc todays) and that Mikeal has played a massive part in what might be coming and what has gone before. So that's them.

And finally we have the USA. It has the most events, the biggest competitions and more promoters and members here than any country. Based on that and the standard and the sheer population there should be no argument as to them having 5 reps - if not a controlling number by far the biggest possible block vote.

How would you decide the numbers? If it was pure population the Chinese would kick all our arses. If it's competition standard then the USA and the UK would have the most followed by Australia and Switzerland and then Gemany. If it was number of events and promoters it would be the USA ahead of the rest followed by an almost tie between Germany and the UK. On that basis only the last one would give them a close chance of getting more than one member.

I suggest it is better to wait. First lets vote people in and get the ball rolling. Then email/PM your new reps and ask if they will table a motion. This will give you time to think up a better method than that which is being used. It could well be that a new vote is asked very soon if the idea is sound or that next next year we see some big changes. If we argue too much at this stage we can easily kill off the 'baby' before it's been born.

[David Horne]

Crikey!

I've already told certain germans that I would bring this point up as soon as we actually have a council to bring it up to.

We could have spent a year putting together the numbers to the commitee. Also we have to remember these numbers will not stay like this, because as countries participation grows so will their numbers of representitives.

Can we all just wait till we get the vote in?

And, as for talk of people walking out of the panel, well so be it. But how pathetic would that be?

Roll on friday.

David

[mobsterone]

Agreed - keep voting. Votes = a say.

[climber511]

I have faith (or at least high hopes) that the elected representatives will be able to give us a fine start in forming an organization that can represent us all. Some things such as equipment, events, scoring etc may prove to be easier to iron out than the national politics etc but if we never start - we can certainly never finish. Good Luck to all and to all "PLEASE VOTE"!!!!!!! Next year is next year - one year at a time.

[David Horne]

Chris,

Cheers!

Don't you worry, grip is grip. I care nothing of politics.

[Mikael Siversson]

I guess someone totally missed something here.

Yes you did. You need to distiguish between the performance of an individual and the overall performance of a nations athletes.

A weak person can represent a country which has a strong field of athletes.

Listen, Mikael: I don't understand this argumentation. Perhaps you can help me out. I would appreciate this. Thanks a lot!

Sure Burkhard,

The person representing a country in a grip panel does not even have to be a competitor and can thus be an individual of moderate physical strength.

[Darco]

I have faith (or at least high hopes) that the elected representatives will be able to give us a fine start in forming an organization that can represent us all. Some things such as equipment, events, scoring etc may prove to be easier to iron out than the national politics etc but if we never start - we can certainly never finish. Good Luck to all and to all "PLEASE VOTE"!!!!!!! Next year is next year - one year at a time.

And that is why you got my vote for the U.S Chris,

......well, not really.....but you did get my vote anyways.

[Mikael Siversson]

Clearly if the Germans are questioning their representation they will start to question decisions from the panel. I would guess it will not be long before the Germans break from the panel.

Greg

We could live with that as the Germans, at this stage, would not add to the top field of any high calibre open contest. We could not, however, make it without the USA for example, which is why we need, IMO, to give more voting power to the stronger nations (grip wise).

The two, by far, best grip nations in Europe are Sweden and England.

European Grippers ranking:

1. Sweden

2. Sweden

3. Sweden

European Pinch ranking:

1. England

2. England

3. Sweden

European Vbar ranking:

1. Sweden

2. England

3. England

The domination is total. IMO, and others seem to disagree, it is reasonable that this is reflected in voting power. Moreover, the LGC competition was up and running long before the German's were thinking of organised grip comps as we see them today.

[stew2]

I have faith (or at least high hopes) that the elected representatives will be able to give us a fine start in forming an organization that can represent us all. Some things such as equipment, events, scoring etc may prove to be easier to iron out than the national politics etc but if we never start - we can certainly never finish. Good Luck to all and to all "PLEASE VOTE"!!!!!!! Next year is next year - one year at a time.

Chris,

Cheers!

Don't you worry, grip is grip. I care nothing of politics.

Two of the best posts in this thread IMO but what do I know.To everybody who would like to see this sport grow I would urge to vote thanks.

[gamidon]

Mikael,

So you see the goal of this council is to have the nations who have used the standardized equipment you listed the longest, to tell other nations how and when they have to run their contests. Where to buy the equipment and if they don't like it they can leave.

I personally do not like your interpretation of what this concil is for.

Greg

[Mikael Siversson]

Mikael,

So you see the goal of this council is to have the nations who have used the standardized equipment you listed the longest,

No, the goal is to promote grip strength competitions and at the same time work towards standardising rules etc. so we can compare results in a more meaningful way. The fact that the Germans have not had access to a LGC vbar and Euro pinch equipment as long as Sweden and England has little to do with their current performance. They do have the equipment these days and yet the Dutch, who does not have these standardised tools, kicks their butt every time.

...to tell other nations how and when they have to run their contests. Where to buy the equipment and if they don't like it they can leave.

A standard for vbar and pinch was established by a joint cooperation by England and Sweden. The most natural thing would be to build upon this rather than every nation having their own equipment making comparisons more or less meaningless.

I personally do not like your interpretation of what this concil is for.

I respect that.

Greg

Edited March 16, 2006 by Mikael Siversson

[burkhardmacht]

I guess someone totally missed something here.

Yes you did. You need to distiguish between the performance of an individual and the overall performance of a nations athletes.

A weak person can represent a country which has a strong field of athletes.

Listen, Mikael: I don't understand this argumentation. Perhaps you can help me out. I would appreciate this. Thanks a lot!

Thanks for You reply. For sure, the guys in the council do not have to be strong or have ever been a competitor. But if I understand You correctly You say the number of representatives in the council should depend on the performance (of the particular nation) in competitions. I think that this is the wrong way because it's the opposite of democracy. Every country should be represented by the same number of guys. But if You think You can provoke me by saying Theo is better than all Germans (or that the Grip panel can go without Germany - another example of misunderstanding the word democracy) - forget it.

(BTW - before the Euros 2005 Martin, Frank and me kicked Theos butt in the MGC...)

[Mikael Siversson]

Every country should be represented by the same number of guys.

So one American and five Europeans (and one Aussie)?

Try selling that to the US guys.

[burkhardmacht]

Every country should be represented by the same number of guys.

So one American and five Europeans (and one Aussie)?

Try selling that to the US guys.

I don't wanna sell anything. No serious: I'm just weighing up things and take a critical look at the things happening. We will see what the future brings. But for me there would be no problem if there would be one or two guys for each country in the panel. US, GB or Swiss for example - in my eyes it's just the same - only one nation.

[DuTCH]

(BTW - before the Euros 2005 Martin, Frank and me kicked Theos butt in the MGC... Because of bending, yes. Because i still took 3 out of 5 )

Oh come one, leave me out of this!

Btw, little childish of you, how long was I training grip? half a year.. You want to test me again?

[climber511]

Please - this should be a way of coming together - not tearing us apart. It's only grip competitions - there are a lot of more critical issues facing each and every one of us every day of our lives, I'm sure. No gripper etc is worth a friendship!

[burner]

CLIMBER511..ALWAYS THE VOICE OF REASON....

[Mikael Siversson]

People might read more into this argument than there really is.

I think performance of a country should reflect the number of people in the grip panel to some extent. That is all I am saying.

I am not saying that I hate Germany or strongly dislike Germans. I have personally been to Germany several time and loved it, both the people, the food and the beer! In fact I work out listening to German music.

Someone could claim that I am not a good allrounder in grip. I may not like hearing it but it would be true.

[stew2]

Every country should be represented by the same number of guys.

So one American and five Europeans (and one Aussie)?

Try selling that to the US guys.

I probaly shouldn't say this because it will probaly bring a outlash so if it does please P.M. me or e-mail me I don't want this thread to go to the gutter. There is a really good thing here that shouldn't be messed up with differences. But Mikael reading all theses posts your the only person I see that really has a problem with the number of representitives for each country. Can' t we just vote get a good group of people, let them set down and workout all the bumps and get to work at making this sport grow and be respectably represented accross the world. I believe there are enough walls between people as it is this is suppoded to be a door to let come together not a wall.

[Mikael Siversson]

...But Mikael reading all theses posts your the only person I see that really has a problem with the number of representitives for each country.

I think you got that one wrong. The ones who had a problem with the numbers were the Germans who brought it up in this thread. There was no disagreement whatsoever when the number of participants were decided upon in the first place.

[EricMilfeld]

Maybe I'm not being realistic, but I would think that if you trust someone enough to vote for them as a grip representative you could trust them enough not to put petty interests such as nationalism or politics in general ahead of promoting grip as sport. Ideally, the reps should be those most qualified, regardless of the political boundaries in which they live. I am an idealist, I know.