British, European And World Championships 2006

[mobsterone]

I've PM'd Andy Christie to see if I can persuade him to promote the British event again. While I await his answer I've been mulling over what events would be included. I'll presume those which are standard. I also thought as to the question of whether or not the same events, thus giving the most level of playing fields, would be used in the European and then the Worlds.

Those which are most obvious events for inclusion are:

Calibrated grippers - both continents seem to have no problems with this

Euro two hand pinch - possibly one hand as a novel change but using the standardized equipment.

Euro-V-bar - someone suggested adding a 2" but I'd prefer to see the 1" stay as is.

I'd like to see 5 events in all so two more are needed that all the countries (Britain, France, Switzerland, Germany, Canada, Australia and the USA) which will be able to have athletes compete in national, then European AND/OR worlds (ie: there's no need to compete in the European if you don't wish as by placing well in your own country should qualify you for the worlds) could train for and on the same equipment in all the competitions.

Other events where there is a standard can include Rolling Thunder. What, if any, suggestions could be added. In my opinion it needs discussing now as May, traditionally the month for the British, is only 12-16 weeks away. If a world championships is gonna take place what countries will send athletes, how do they qualify, what if some don't come (due to costs for example) will we have wild cards? And so on.

[stew2]

This is a little off subject but I would like to see 2" v bar included in some of the perliminary comps probaly not the european or worlds though. Maybe as a lottery event in some of the other smaller events being held. Coarse I'm baisis I don't train 1" only 2" only time I do 1" is at get togethers or comps.

[jad]

As far as Worlds, what will the qualifying time frame be? For example, if Worlds are in September do you have to qualify in an event(s) between Jan 1, 2006 and Worlds or is it within a year of the last Worlds (September 2005 to Worlds<assuming 2006 Worlds is in September>)?

Thanks,

Josh

[Cunny]

Other events where there is a standard can include Rolling Thunder

Don't these things vary as much as grippers?

Or is there a way to guarantee they are all standard or calibrated?

Suprised the Weaver stick is not used cheap equipment and easy to standardise

[mobsterone]

Not to knock what has been said thus far but any event suggested has to be with equipment most can both afford and or have access to and be of a reasonably close standard. It is worth mentioning that for RT events all the athletes will use the same implement on the day and most competitions buy a new handle for the event.

[smitty]

It is worth mentioning that for RT events all the athletes will use the same implement on the day and most competitions buy a new handle for the event.

Definitely the standard.

As far as Worlds, we are still wrapping up everything around the date and it will be announced soon.

[Mikael Siversson]

The disadvantage of having a 2'' vbar in competition is obviously that the implement will magnify the performance differences between people with large hands and those with a small.

Most, if not all, can press with their thumb on the fingers with a 25mm (1'') vbar whereas this is only possible on a 2'' bar if you have a large hand.

Having a thickbar lift such as RT as well as the 2'' vbar would certainly exclude people with smaller hands from the top positions in an open class.

I have fairly large hands so I am good at both but I would certainly not feel superior beating a guy with a small hand on a 2'' vbar.

What is wrong with simply having a one hand deadlift with an oly bar instead of a thickbar lift?

I don't think the Europeans might be so very keen on having two hand size classes. Maybe I am wrong about this though.

My suggestion would be:

Grippers (both hands)

Two hand pinch (Euro)

25mm vbar

one hand deadlift with oly bar (both hands)

Euro-bending (non-DO) or levering of some sort (although this event seems to lack in stringent rules as there is a large variation in how far back people push their shoulders, which obviously affects the angle of the bar).

[stew2]

Mikael I like your choices I think the 1 hand DL on the oly bar is a great event all around strength and grip combined. Although I think you have a point on the 2" V-bar I would not feel intimidated by larger hands I have small hands and am not the strongest grip around but I believe it is possible for a small hands competitor to hang with large hands ones.It's all just always a matter of being strong enough just have to work a little harder. But I don't believe it should be an event in the major comps maybe some of the smaller just to see how it runs weight wise for an comparison.

Something kinda funny from me I never wrapped my thumb over my fingers on 1" in the few comps I've been at I didn't think it was allowed I always kept it pointed down towards the weight parallel with the bar. My brother asked me at the GGC this year just before my last lift why I wasn't doing that and told me I could so I did the first time on that last lift and I don't think it made that much of a difference for me anyhow but I need to experiment with it some more.

[mobsterone]

I feel that there is too much variation in the bending for me to want to see it included. That the RT could be substituted for one hand deadlift with an o-bar is ok with me (for obvious reasons ha ha).

[Bob Lipinski]

While I think thick bar stuff shouldn't be exclusive in the grip world, it has always been a mainstay in grip stuff and the odd event here and there don't hurt.

I have always put one or two in my contests because I am one of the small handed guys, and don't want to be seen as rigging a contest for me to win.

I eventually will promote a contest with no thick object lifting, but it will be with standard Euro events. A good standard has been set there.

[mobsterone]

Hi Bob, of the 100% agreed standards I think that there are just ther 3 which was my list. It's adding to that list and knowing that the European championships and later the World will also use them which is important - or in question.

That said it depends on whether or not there is an actual agreed requirment to qualify for the same events. I'd prefer to do less if possible as competitions are draining.

[Florian Kellersmann]

My suggestion would be:

Grippers (both hands)

Two hand pinch (Euro)

25mm vbar

one hand deadlift with oly bar (both hands)

Euro-bending (non-DO) or levering of some sort (although this event seems to lack in stringent rules as there is a large variation in how far back people push their shoulders, which obviously affects the angle of the bar).

I agree with you Mikael. We should think about the 5th discipline. I would like to see an other wrist test than bending. Also I'm not sure if the lever to the head is a good wrist test overall (no front lever).

How about the weaver stick to front and to rear?

What RT thumbless ?

We should have the disciplines in April, since the euros will be in August as usual I guess.

Flo

[the swiss]

not too keen myself on having different hand size classes.

therefore I think thick bar lifting should not be used as a standard event. (what i mean is either have thick bar and hand size classes or none)

the wrist event is a tough one. weaver stick is not a great event to watch or judge. wrist curls can not really be done by everybody, as for some of us wrist curling a straight bar is very uncomfortable (does not seem to respect the biomechanics of our hands). thumbless 1' bar lifting maybe.

Bending is not too bad, (not DO which is too hard to judge). I liked the 60° rule, but the complete bend event was unnecessary IMO.

david

[David Horne]

Why not use the Total Wrist Tester? It tests both hands at the same time and both front and back, which saves a lot of time. We will use it at my dad's comp. In training it seems to work well.

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?act=mod...cmd=si&img=3723

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?act=mod...cmd=si&img=3724

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?act=mod...cmd=si&img=3722

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?act=mod...cmd=si&img=3721

It's easy and cheap to make.

Total Wrist Tester

The handles are 33" tubular bar.

The handle is 5" to the collar.

From the handle (including the collar) to the tray is 10".

The tray is 15" x 23" conte board, like formica.

Beyond the tray is 3" of bar, which has a collar secured against the tray. You can use the extra length to put discs on for training full r-o-m raises. Thought this would be useful.

The 2 pieces of 45mm x 20mm x 23" wood that the tray is fastened onto have the 1" holes drilled 1/2" in from the ends for the bars to go through.

The line marked on the tray is 5 1/2" in (see pic), this is the line along where the weights are placed.

Total Wrist Tester rules

For both the front and rear part of the event both handles will be grabbed and the apparatus is lifted till the legs are straight; bending at the waist is allowed. The weights must be placed on the tray across the line drawn to start. If the weights fall off at anytime during the lift, this is a cause for failure. The lift is performed to the front first, and then lowered under control to the box. Weight can be added or taken away for the second part of the lift which is performed with the apparatus at the rear. The same rules apply to this part as well. The successful weight of both the front lever and rear lever is added together for your poundage score.

[Mikael Siversson]

The wrist event will always be more or less difficult to judge.

There are several decent events for the wrist but no really good ones.

Perhaps it is best to let the organisers decide on the fifth event.

Some don't like the kink bending event while others don't fancy levering.

[the swiss]

the total wrist tester: why not? its nice that it is a two hands device, lots of time saved. But I think a nice addition would be a kind of loading pin in the middle so the weights are nice and stable.

what does Hermann Korte think?

[David Horne]

David,

The whole point of the weights being loose is so if you lift with too much of a slope they come off.

David

[the swiss]

yes, I understand, but as it is, could you not take advantage from this and get the plates to slide a little bit near you by tilting the apparatus and then have the weights nearer and thus the torque less?

[David Horne]

Take it from me there is only one way they slide. But I see your point, and I would obviously disallow any pre slide of the discs to gain an advantage.

David

[Hubgeezer]

Kevin Meskew had a Grip Decathlon in Southern California in March of 2005 in which the final event was the "trap bar hold". We pulled 505 pounds off blocks around 18 inches high, a very partial deadlift, and then it was how long you could hold it for time. It was similar to the car deadlift hold they sometimes had in the World's Strongest Man. It is supporting grip, simple, strength is important, both hands are involved at the same time, and it does not favor large handed guys. 500 pounds is a reasonable weight as well. The blocks were high enough that every competitor, including some that were sub-400 pound deadlifters, could complete the event.

Hubgeezer

[climber511]

I've been waiting for this discussion to come up - wasn't to sure when it would happen but I'm glad it did. There seems to be more than one scoring system in use as well and I would think it might be good if that might be standardised as well. Grippers, two hand pinch, and standard sized V-Bar seem to be on everybodies short list with no insurmountable problems. I am very interested in how the 25mm and 1" vbars will compare and how the metric pinch and the "inch" pinch systems will compare over time due to cost considerations on both sides of the oceans but for the major competitions, this is no issue. Hand size is always going to be a factor and I guess we just have to deal with it as best we can by choosing events that limit this factor as best we can - or go with hand size classes. The problem then arises as to how one can pick an "overall" winer. The issue of overall bodily strength should also be discussed - I know in my personal case, my grip has not always been my limiting factor in all things. Before the GGC, there was talk of a "Farmers Hold" for time - my grip was still going fine when the pain level in my body stopped me - the one hand lift (not the one hand DL) is also pretty iffy as to whether my body or my grip stops first. The issue of how easy is it to "cheat" must also be looked at - some events might make judging that very difficult. Speed events like medleys are perhaps the most fun of all but are they grip "strength" tests or tests of speed and cordination instead? As a slow old man, they kill me every time; even when I have NO problem strength wise. After the GGC, I had problems with the levering event but the set-up used at the Tar Heels contest seems to address most problems if the time is taken to adjust for each person - please check it out when the videos and all get posted - with the addition of standarised adjustable hammers so the jumps used don't have to be so big, I think it might be the way to go and I would perfer it over any type of bending event as there is no possibility of steel variences affecting either the event results or the WRs between competitions. I think these decisions will of course be decided upon by the people who actually put on the contests but a reasonable time period of discussion "out in public" so to speak is a very good thing as well. Perhaps a list of possible events can be listed, then accept comments both pro and con for each event and maybe a concensus might be reached ( wishful thinking I know but would result in good discussions).

[mobsterone]

My understanding with the V-bar is that it wasn't an issue in so far as the GGC used an 'official' v-bar for the competition but 1" (like mine) are used in other events and in training.

[mANVIL]

As far as thickbar lifting goes is it too difficult to implement the "fairbar" idea so a thick handled event could be included but not favor those with larger hands. Also why is a wrist roller event never included in any contest? (too much full body movement?)

[Mikael Siversson]

As far as thickbar lifting goes is it too difficult to implement the "fairbar" idea so a thick handled event could be included but not favor those with larger hands.

Yes I think it is too difficult to implement in a fair way. I believe we would find that a fairbar event would, in general, be dominated by people with a short hand and thick, strong wrists.

One event that is not too bad as a wrist event is thumbless RT.

[Too Tall]

One event that is not too bad as a wrist event is thumbless RT

That would be cool