Saw This On A Different Board

[joeyg]

I just saw a topic for bending over on the irontrybe board and noticed this post:

"Mark this date on your calendar and put my name next to it; David Lemanczyk.

If you do not plan yourself a path to success you will plan to fail. "For now I use a lot of cloth and I get the bar bent however I can, but I will work on all styles eventually". This statement reflects that. You have to understand if I give advice it is for a reason. More times than not the reason is to ensure your safety so you WILL be able to lift long and be strong. "Getting the bar bent however I can" is NOT a plan for success.

Strong connective tissues do not have a look. You will not be able to look at someone and say, "Wow, you have some really nice connective tissues"! The connective tissues are the governing bodies that allow you to create the torsion necessary to make the steel bend and lose its manufactured straight shape. When I wrote, "Hands together and use minimal cloth" it is serious advice. There are thousands of guys out there right now claiming to bend this bar and that bar but there is a problem. How come these men can bend a tough nail but can not lever a 10lb sledgehammer in strict fashion? RED FLAG!

I can guarantee you that if I wanted to I could teach you how to bend anything reasonable and within your current strength level. This would be the method of EXCESS CLOTH and HANDS FAR APART. This is NO GOOD! This style will lead to injuries and most importantly lying to you. I know that if my hands are together and I use minimal cloth that I will bend the steel if I am deserving of it. Meaning, connective tissue wise I can handle it. Now if I couldn't bend the steel with my hands together using minimal cloth WHY WOULD I PLACE MY HANDS FAR APART AND USE EXCESS CLOTH? The answer is the easy way out.

I care about you man and I don't want anything bad to happen to you. Steel bending is very serious and should be taken seriously. A lot of clowns out there right now claiming to bend this and that and will inevitably become seriously injured in a short amount of time due to the fact that they have not yet conditioned their Minds & Connective Tissues. I'm here for you man."

I have been bending for about 2 months now and have adopted the hands on the end method as it seems less stressfull on the wrists.

I'm curious as to what other benders think of this? I thought the goal of bending was get the bar bent.

[Cunny]

Sounds sensible.

[joeyg]

Sounds sensible.

What, that there are alot of "clowns bending this and that" with hands on the end of bar or bending is about getting the bar bent?

[Cunny]

Well the sensible part sounds sensible too me ; )

[Anuwbius]

It has solid points, but at the same time assumes less of other people.

[Bearcat 74]

I don't bend, main reason is I just don't care for it, but would someone tell me why you would not want bending to be stressful on the wrists? Seems to me like bending should be another test of wrist strength? That would be like pinching or doing grippers and wanting it to not stress the hands, IMHO. Just an outsiders view, but wouldn't it be similar to two hand pinch, just move your hands to the sides of the plates, doesn't matter how you lift it, just so long as it comes up? Or, well I moved my hands to the side of the plates, pinching with the hands together on top was too stressful on my hands.

Also, just incase anyone thinks I have been influenced by people on this subject, I have not.

[Clay Edgin]

Dave is outspoken and most times, although I sometimes do it begrudgingly, I agree with him. This is one of those times. He always delivers a sugar-coated-free message.

[Grh122]

Each style of bending has its own merits and targets tendons and muscles differently:

- low DO, or Slim style: emphasizes wrist and hand strength but also uses forearm and arm strength (this style uses less cloth/padding and the hands are closer together)

- reverse grip: extremely taxing on the wrists (this is good), and requires forearm and tricep strength

- high DO: emphasizes upper body and arm strength but requires good strength of wrists and hands (especially the index and middle fingers) to advance beyond an intermediate level

- Double underhand: strengthens the hands, wrists and forearms, as well as the back. DU uses the ring and pinky finger more than the index and middle fingers.

The current trend is to use high Double Overhand, since for the majority of benders this seems to be the strongest technique. This is fine but there is no reason to do this style exclusively. That would be like doing only the clean and jerk and neglecting the snatch.

Reverse grip is not mentioned as often but I find it a very powerful way to strengthen the wrists.

The best strategy is to set long-term goals and work towards them slowly. Being explosive is necessary at advanced levels but for a beginner it can result in injuries, no matter what style is used.

[Cunny]

I don't bend, main reason is I just don't care for it, but would someone tell me why you would not want bending to be stressful on the wrists? Seems to me like bending should be another test of wrist strength? That would be like pinching or doing grippers and wanting it to not stress the hands, IMHO. Just an outsiders view, but wouldn't it be similar to two hand pinch, just move your hands to the sides of the plates, doesn't matter how you lift it, just so long as it comes up? Or, well I moved my hands to the side of the plates, pinching with the hands together on top was too stressful on my hands.

Also, just incase anyone thinks I have been influenced by people on this subject, I have not.

Don't know if others agree but it seems to be which is the weakest link your tendons or the bar.

Maybe this has something to with leverage.

[Scott Styles]

"I don't bend, main reason is I just don't care for it, but would someone tell me why you would not want bending to be stressful on the wrists?"

I think some people are more interested in the feat of strength than just stressing a specific body part. Ironically, if they are feeling no wrist stress from double overhand, they're probably doing it wrong. Double overhand, done well, takes maximal force from the wrists in addition to that entire upper body. That's why such big bars get bent.

Look at the blisters big double overhand benders get on the sides of their index/middle fingers when they are bending hard. This is where the force from the wrists is being transferred to the bar to aid the bend.

[Soilworker]

I care about you man and I don't want anything bad to happen to you. Steel bending is very serious and should be taken seriously. A lot of clowns out there right now claiming to bend this and that and will inevitably become seriously injured in a short amount of time due to the fact that they have not yet conditioned their Minds & Connective Tissues.

This is primarily why I stopped bending and started levering and such. I wouldn't go around calling people clowns though.

[Dude]

There are thousands of guys out there right now claiming to bend this bar and that bar but there is a problem. How come these men can bend a tough nail but can not lever a 10lb sledgehammer in strict fashion? RED FLAG!

I can guarantee you that if I wanted to I could teach you how to bend anything reasonable and within your current strength level. This would be the method of EXCESS CLOTH and HANDS FAR APART. This is NO GOOD! This style will lead to injuries and most importantly lying to you. I know that if my hands are together and I use minimal cloth that I will bend the steel if I am deserving of it. Meaning, connective tissue wise I can handle it. Now if I couldn't bend the steel with my hands together using minimal cloth WHY WOULD I PLACE MY HANDS FAR APART AND USE EXCESS CLOTH? The answer is the easy way out.

I care about you man and I don't want anything bad to happen to you. Steel bending is very serious and should be taken seriously. A lot of clowns out there right now claiming to bend this and that and will inevitably become seriously injured in a short amount of time due to the fact that they have not yet conditioned their Minds & Connective Tissues. I'm here for you man."

I guess it doesn't really say much for people that bend, kinda shits on it in some respects. In terms of the excess cloth hands apart I guess you could say thats true but why wouldnt one shoot for the most advantageous position when trying to bend? That's like everyone trying to close grippers and then me saying "I can get you to close anything within your strength once I show you how to set it (hands apart) and chalk the piss out of your hands (excess cloth)". For the minimal amount of leverage that excess leather provides it does have its setbacks such as during the crush down. And thats not to say people who use a little bit larger pads are incapable of bending with thinner ones at the same level. Perfect example is Sean Prince when Greg had him trim his pads down.

Maybe one of the other people can say for sure but I've never known of a standard position of hands when bending. I prefer my hands in close to bend the bar directly over my indexes but thats personal preference with the end result being bend the nail. I could care how people bend because all bending is is just that: bending. Not strict levering, not symmetrical effort by both hands, its just get the bar bent in the fashion that your strongest I would think. It depends on what terms you take bending, to strengthen or to more of a personal competition, I like both aspects.

Although the assumption can be made for whats easier I think bending has a lot more personal preference in it than gripping and others. For example I bend much higher and bending with anything thicker than the IM pads or even with leather for that matter messes me up, whereas someone is totally different.

[Oldtime]

This begs the question: What can dave bend himself?

[Dave Lemanczyk]

This begs the question: What can dave bend himself?

I can bend many a spike and bolt with my hands together using minimal cloth. Ask Steve, he has a good idea of what I can do. Thank you for asking "Oldtime".

JoeyG - I don't know who you are but thank you. I am glad that you took my message from Iron Trybe and brought it here. My message is clear and I do not "SUGAR COAT" anything (Clay). I never have in my life. I write for clarity and to communicate information. Thank you (Clay) for your comments.

The truth is that I have the ability to help a lot of you reach a potential you never thought could be. Instead of disagreeing with me and talking about "your methods", why not just comtemplate mine for a minute. Before there was the "Red Nail" and different certs for bending there were Strongmen who bent steel on their own. The oldtime guys were a hands together group and if I may say so, MUCH STRONGER than today's hands apart excess cloth crew.

If anyone doubts what I say, the next time you are "Bending" I suggest that you place your hands together. It doesn't matter what style you use. Place them together and make sure you are using minimal cloth. It might even help if you actually WRAP the cloth (NOT CLOTH's) yourself and use your GRIP to keep it closed during the bend. All this rubber band nonsense is ridiculous. Try this way for one session and tell me what is harder.

Anyone who has worked hard in life knows that the hard way is the way that produces with results in time and with patience. Good day everyone. Please feel free to PM me about your experience and how it has changed your perspective on Bending. If not, feel free to shooot me a PM and if I can help you in any way, I just may.

Edited January 8, 2006 by Dave Lemanczyk

[gamidon]

Dave this has been run over several times. The fact is nobody can see the difference between What you guys call hands together and what most people are doing. One difference people see is that Pat streaches his index finger forward but this does not change the position of his hands it just puts his index finger forward. I too do this and my reason is to spread the bar load across multiple fingers.

There are some who put there hands completely off the bar, this is taking it to an extreeme. Nobody is promoting this type of bend as it can be very dangerous if the padding fails. This mjethod will never work on short bends as there would be too much pressure on your index finger to get the sub 6" bars bent. You will find that these people have to change their style and get more on the bar to get the shorter bends and thicker bars bent.

I can go through and bring up 20-30 pictures and videos of the "hands together" method and there is not 1 picture or video that supports what you are writing. This has been rehashed over and over and yet nobody can explain how your "hands together method" works. So please put your hands together in the center of a 7" red, bend it DO and show us what you are talking about. I have seen wayyyyyy too much TEXT about this and zero pictures and videos. The video would go a long way to explaining exactly what you are talking about. I myself can find no possible way to put my hands completely together in the center of a 7" red and get it anywhere near my chin to bend it. Perhaps there is something I am missing.

[Dude]

If anyone doubts what I say, the next time you are "Bending" I suggest that you place your hands together. It doesn't matter what style you use. Place them together and make sure you are using minimal cloth. It might even help if you actually WRAP the cloth (NOT CLOTH's) yourself and use your GRIP to keep it closed during the bend. All this rubber band nonsense is ridiculous. Try this way for one session and tell me what is harder.

I honestly dont think a rubber band makes any difference in bending at all. I only use them to hold one wrap in place while I roll the other, I dont think it helps gripping the nail much.

Also whats "minimal cloth"? What diameter around a red are we talking? Leather or IM pads?

[mindovermatter]

is that dude implying that only clowns bend with there hands on the end of the steel?

[tspinillo]

This begs the question: What can dave bend himself?

I can bend many a spike and bolt with my hands together using minimal cloth. Ask Steve, he has a good idea of what I can do. Thank you for asking "Oldtime".

That is not an answer.

[Oldtime]

This begs the question: What can dave bend himself?

I can bend many a spike and bolt with my hands together using minimal cloth. Ask Steve, he has a good idea of what I can do. Thank you for asking "Oldtime".

Spike and bolt?

Cool, I can bend a red with 7 inches of leather, with my knuckles touching.

And for some reason it really aint much harder then, when i "bend like a clown"

Edited January 8, 2006 by Oldtime

[Cunny]

And for some reason it really aint much harder then, when i "bend like a clown

I don't think Dave's quote was aimed at anyone in particular more at newbies.

[GatorGrip]

Look at the blisters big double overhand benders get on the sides of their index/middle fingers when they are bending hard. This is where the force from the wrists is being transferred to the bar to aid the bend.

Thanks Scott, now I know why I have torn the skin from the sides of their index/middle fingers so many times.

I am healing or should I say growing some skin back now! You would think gator hide would be stronger that that huh?

[Left Side]

This begs the question: What can dave bend himself?

I can bend many a spike and bolt with my hands together using minimal cloth. Ask Steve, he has a good idea of what I can do. Thank you for asking "Oldtime".

Spike and bolt?

Cool, I can bend a red with 7 inches of leather, with my knuckles touching.

And for some reason it really aint much harder then, when i "bend like a clown"

You can place both hands together, touching, in the middle of the bar, and bend a red? I know you are a very talented bender, but this demands a video.

[Oldtime]

This begs the question: What can dave bend himself?

I can bend many a spike and bolt with my hands together using minimal cloth. Ask Steve, he has a good idea of what I can do. Thank you for asking "Oldtime".

Spike and bolt?

Cool, I can bend a red with 7 inches of leather, with my knuckles touching.

And for some reason it really aint much harder then, when i "bend like a clown"

You can place both hands together, touching, in the middle of the bar, and bend a red? I know you are a very talented bender, but this demands a video.

I extend my index fingers, so that the first knuckles are touching each other. along with middle fingers.

I realyl dont notice any diffrence. Execpt more pain.

Edited January 8, 2006 by Oldtime

[Left Side]

Okay I see now.

I agree that a picture and video would be really helpful from Dave to clarify exactly that he means.

The way I interpret his explanation is that hand are placed together in the middle of the bar so that the knuckles of the thumbds are touching, and then supinates the wrists, bending the bar.

Is this what you are saying Dave?

[smp76]

I guess it doesn't really say much for people that bend, kinda shits on it in some respects. In terms of the excess cloth hands apart I guess you could say thats true but why wouldnt one shoot for the most advantageous position when trying to bend? That's like everyone trying to close grippers and then me saying "I can get you to close anything within your strength once I show you how to set it (hands apart) and chalk the piss out of your hands (excess cloth)". For the minimal amount of leverage that excess leather provides it does have its setbacks such as during the crush down. And thats not to say people who use a little bit larger pads are incapable of bending with thinner ones at the same level. Perfect example is Sean Prince when Greg had him trim his pads down.

Although the assumption can be made for whats easier I think bending has a lot more personal preference in it than gripping and others. For example I bend much higher and bending with anything thicker than the IM pads or even with leather for that matter messes me up, whereas someone is totally different.

Dave,

Ron and Greg and I have discussed this in another thread. I as Ron pointed out am a perfect example. I have seen the benefit for feel and pain when going from leather to IM Pads. Cutting down pads will eventually lead to a stopping point for any bender. That is just a fact of life, keep cutting off padding and eventually anyone will end up stoping sooner or later. I have found the sweet spot for me and that is around 1" thick when rolled around a Red nail. For other the thickness is going to be different.

I do however question the point of the article you wrote. Retoric discourse is always the best way to explain an argument but as Greg stated a video will elaborate your words so there is a visual representation to what you consider a purest form of bending. I am also in agreement with Ron on the point that it seems like an argument of purests. Chalk, no chalk, set, no set, at nauseum it comes down to the rules set down by a governing body that dictates what is a legal bend and what is not at that time. This is why people have established rules for certification in areas like Iron Mind, Fat Bastard and the like.

Please explain with video if possible so that I and others can better understand what your intent is.

Respectfully,

Sean Prince