Nathan Say Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Imagine how strong a guy would have to be to swing a big sword! There's a salvage sort of store in town & there are swords there that must weigh about 20lbs. I had trouble holding one with just one hand. Those knights from way back when must have been pretty strong to be able to use one of those things. :0 In the Super Athletes, it says that there were guys who could swing a huge sword (one that only they were strong enough to use) so hard that they could ccut a person in half whether the person was wearing armour or not! :0 :0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RobbyTooSlobby Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 This may or maynot interest you but you reminded me of articles and stuff that i have heard about. Apparently in the 1800's miners would uncover artifacts in the coal. Which would mean that they were very VERY old artifacts. Possibly thousands of years old. But the miners also occasionally uncovered skeletons in the coal. One of the skeletons measured 9'8" I believe. I even saw a photo of it. This kind of goes along with what the bible says about there being people of incredible size in the early times before the flood that killed them all. Imagine the size of weapons a guy that big could swing!!! Could cut a dino in half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 About a year ago I saw a polish movie based on the book With Fire and Sword. There was this one scene that stood out in my mind after reading this post. A large man with a huge, i mean HUGE sword, thick and at least a yard long... (details here might be wrong, I cant really remember right now, and anyway, it was in polish) Well, they are laughing that it was too big to handle well in a fight. He challenges them to see how they can hold it up and swing it, 2 men try but can barely handle the sword with 2 hands, and then large owner of the sword without saying a word takes it with one hand and masterfully swings it around and cuts down a chandellire. Later in the movie, he cuts off 3 peoples heads with one swing. Of course it was just a movie, but, i have no doubt in my mind that there were people like that back then, all over in Europe and Iceland. I mean, what else was there to do back then besides fight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest woody36 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 The sword used by William Wallace was reputed to be five feet in length,which would have been a great wrist strengthener,but then he was 6ft 8" and blessed by all accounts with great natural strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 This sword is at the Wallace Monument, and I remember taking a photo of it (which I can't find..####) alonside my friend Lee. I would put the length of the sword closer to six feet. Nick was with me, what do you think? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 115-1005574997 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Robby are you being serious or taking the micky? ??? Coal was formed over hundreds of millions of years of geological activity from decaying vegetable matter. Humans - homo sapiens- have been on earth for less than 1 million years. there is NO WAY youd find a Skeleton , a sward or anything human in coal. and there never has been 9 feet humans! My sister works for the devils horsmen stunt team in the summer and they Re-enact Jousts and Medieval fighting. the swards they use are modern replicas made from stainless steel about 1 meter long and and weigh around 800g to 1200g. they have a counter weight in the handle but require really good wrist strength. Id say that if you cant weaver lift 4kg + youd be struggling to control one of these. But 800 years ago the swards where much tougher and made from iron so they'd be 1m+ and over 1500g. also youd be expected to thrust it through bone, muscle and armour. The 2 handed 5' swards were used as anti horse weapons. But remember swards were as varied as cars. the roman swards were designed for stabbing, the samui were cutting (no armour just leather and flesh) and the european Medieval swards for crushing bone and damaging internal organs (not going through metal armour) so they'd be heavy and blunt. Oh and william wallace wasnt more than 5' 8" in real life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 I have no idea how tall Wallace was. Yes, coal was formed a very long time ago. I'd advise anyone interested in medieval swordmanship to search out a book called "Medieval Combat" by Hans Talhoffer. We are lucky that this has been translated from Talhoffer's 'Fight Book' from the year 1467. This wonderful book is mostly filled with his illustrations and notes, and shows that medieval swordfighting (in fact fighting) was not the hacking, blade on blade, ring of steel affair represented in films. But a huge array of techniques, including grappling, wrestling, kicking and throwing. Really this is a great book, with some fantastic illustrations. Luckily Scott, you'll be able to see it tomorrow as it's in my collection. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 115-1005574997 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 David I cant wait to see Talhoffer's book tomorrow as it sounds Fascinating! I guess its a sad reflection on our histroy that people think antiquety is as portrayed in the films! Simon Schama did a wonderful history of the british isles last year and explained who wallace really was and how we got a dutch nobleman as king (william of orange) 300 years ago simply to stop the catholics gaining more power. I love history (especialy iron game history) so better not get me started Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest woody36 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Mr Essery , it is well documented that William Wallace was a giant of a man,its Mel Gibson thats a shortarse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest baldy Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Scott, not trying to start an ontology discussion but not everyone believes that line about "millions and millions" of years. I surely don't. David, what you said about the medieval fighting in movies is true with just about everything combat related. In movies knife fights are always what you described about the ring of steel on steel etc, and the blade is always prominently displayed by the one wielding it. Go to the Phillipines sometime and try that. Same with frontier fighting (America, 1800s), most of that is documented to be people groping to rip out someones eye or tear a nostril. That doesn't look good for a movie, though. Therefore we end up with a lot of back and forth, give and take action until someone (barely) comes out on top. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Say Posted April 12, 2002 Author Share Posted April 12, 2002 Yeah Mel Gibson is a geek. Looking at the Super Athletes, I see that a guy named Roland, nephew of Charlemagne, could swing a sword so hard he could cut another guy in half clear through his armour, & so could Scanderberg (Georges Castriota), King of Albania with his scimitar. Another guy was Robert the Bruce, who had a battle axe that needed 2 ordinary men to wield. In King Edward's invading army there was a huge guy named Bohun, & Robert the Bruce split his head (helmet & all) in half with his giant battle axe. The book says William Wallace (Braveheart) had a sword which weighed 40lbs & was 7ft long that nobody else could use & but around 1850 Angus MacAskill wielded it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Enroll in knight school to learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul valpreda Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Interesting topic. David, do you know if the book "Medieval Combat" is still in print somewhere? Yours is probably an antique copy I assume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RobbyTooSlobby Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Robby are you being serious or taking the micky? ??? Coal was formed over hundreds of millions of years of geological activity from decaying vegetable matter. Humans - homo sapiens- have been on earth for less than 1 million years. there is NO WAY youd find a Skeleton , a sward or anything human in coal. and there never has been 9 feet humans! No im not taking a micky. I am serious. There is a lot of evidence and artifacts found in coal. Baldy is correct. There is NO evidence for the world being millions of years old. The FACT that they found huge skeletons as well as artifacts in the coal while mining it are proof that it doesn't take milllions of years to produce coal. If you have some proof that we evolved a million years ago i think you should call National Geographic because they have yet to find any proof of that. Hey thats a cool story about the guy with the battle axe!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Paul, No, mine unfortunately is not an original 15th century book. This hardback copy was published in 2000 by Greenhill books, London. ISBN 1-85367-418-4 It's a worthwhile addition to anyones book collection. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Paul, Just looked on www.abebooks.com and there are 5 copies of this book, ranging from $19.99 to $38. A worthwhile investment. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest woody36 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Robby, just for you http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/13anc03.htm Scott, Robert Wadlow was the tallest human ever at 8ft 11" and suffered from acromegaly (gigantism) a rare disease affecting only 3 in every million people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 115-1005574997 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Woody very interesting link, thanks Baldy and Robby this is a grippage so i wont go off on a tangent so all i'll say is that i strongly disagree with your views. But thats human freedom to choose for you. ??? As for the topic, I recon we can all agree on two things, Talhofers book sounds wonderful and im lookingforward to reading it. the second is that blacksmiths, fighters and soldiers who did battle with human powered weapons (i was an avid archer for 10 years and know a bit about bowmanship) were HUGLY stronger than the average person and could hold their own at a modern grip contest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryduty Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Here's a link to Wallace's sword: http://www.highlanderweb.co.uk/wallace/sword.htm Train smart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul valpreda Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Thanks David. I'm going to go and see about ordering a copy. I love history especially regarding strength topics. I have a large collection of books on the history of Iceland. It's a wonderful topic to explore. I have lots of European history and it's probably my favorite to study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul valpreda Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 David, I was thinking your copy was from the early 1900's, I'm not sure why! I found "Medieval Combat" at Amazon.com for $20.00. I'll be ordering my copy soon. Thanks again, paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 Really interesting topic! From my experience with swords, you need good wrist strength and flexibility to weild any tye of long blade. In the day when they were used I have no doubt these men would have been truly AWESOME! On movies I have used all kinds of swords from samurai to medieval and even wu shu (kung fu) swords. History is pretty much out of the window in movies where you have dumb ass knights (usually me!) with short double edged blades fighting the hero with a stunning katana and flash hong kong fight moves flung together with some kendo to 'look good'. Hardly realistic. However, even replica swords are hard to use and DANGEROUS. Not long ago Marc Singer (actor in the original Beastmaster films and on the hit Sci Fi show 'V') and I had to do a long sword fight scene for the series Beastmaster. I got a crummy sword that bends easily (to protect Marc should I miss) and Marc insisted on using his REAL sword (he's the star and I was just a stunt guy so that's the way it goes). I went through about 5 of my swords and got cut a few times too. Needless to say Marc's sword was fine. That said Marc is an excellent swordsman and is one of the nicest people I have ever met - a true gentleman. He has thick wrists and outstanding forearms from years of sword work and martial arts training. At 53 he looks 15 years younger! There's no doubt that sword work with heavy weapons would be a great and fun way to train your wrists and grip. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 It's a myth that people were bigger and stronger than people of today. Just the opposite is true. Most men were shorter than average by today's standards. Of course, you had the giants - like Robert Wadlow. At 8'11", you can be very intimidating. You are also weak and slow. Try putting muscle mass on that kind of frame; you can't. I have read about men standing up to 8 feet tall (notice I said, "up to"). BUT..... nine foot giants? No way. :p Also, to wield swords back then required TWO HANDS to swing it, NOT one. The William Wallace sword is a Scottish Clayemore - it's heavy, and the hilt is especially made for use with both hands. Try swinging it around with one hand in battle, and you'll quickly get yourself killed. Those 7 foot swords that someone was talking about are actually pikes. And they are not swords. They are long poles designed to unhorse an opponent; kinda like a lance. Yes, it takes lots of wrist and hand strength to swing those weapons around. Continuous swinging of a heavy weapon will get you tired quickly - try it. That's why battles never lasted very long. You're in a suit of armor (very heavy), on a horse holding and swinging a sword (heavy), or a mace or axe (heavy), at your opponent who is trying his best to kill you, and prevent himself from getting killed. Any other illusions you guys may harbor is plain and simple "Hollywood" nonsense! Some of you guys watch too many movies and T.V., and don't know the difference between what is real (and has been well documented), and what is fantasy (movies/T.V.). Where is Roark when ya really need him!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest baldy Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 In the December 2001 MILO Joe Maccarrone ("Getting Medieval" article) said he trained with heavy medieval weapons. He also said his lever bar work improved his weapon work, which would be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Say Posted April 14, 2002 Author Share Posted April 14, 2002 Robert Wadlow is only the tallest in recorded history. Cavemen & those other proto-human types had the strength to literally tear an animal limb from limb once they killed it, but of course there's no record of them, say lifting a car or closing a IM #3 gripper. I think it's possible that there were really big & tall people from way back whenever, but like today, not very many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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