Overhead Squat

[Starkmann]

I decided to add Overhead Squats into my program. I consider myself to have a better than average core strength but not what it needs to be. So I tried an overhead squat for the first time ever. I used an olympic bar, that's it, no weight. I about dropped it on my head. Each squat ended up with the bar leaning way out over my body, my elbows bent and the bar about to fall. It was hideous and obvious I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

I quit after about four reps. It was challenging but I really think a lot of it came down to inexperience and horrible technique.

So I'm asking for help. Pointers, URLs, books, DVDs, whatever you can think of that has hellped you learn it. Point me toward them.

Thanks

[priznr]

that is one of the hardest lifts to learn, i tore my shoulder up pretty bad getting angry at it one day and stacking weigt on the olympic bar! so donht do that pleasE!

so my advice is: don't push the weight on it.. that lift is better learned through repetition.. such as with a very light barbell 20lbs. or even lighter, to get shoulder flexibility in that area and the lower back area.

ok also, what helps is: when you're standing upright with your hands in the snatch grip, use a thumbless grip. also SPREAD the bar.. meaning, squeeze with your hands and spread outward, you should feel your whole shoulder girdle/shoulder joint move.. feels like it rotates.. this greatly helps when you go down into the squat position.. so keep spreading the bar all the way down.

i've also found that looking down when lowering and spreading helps with better ROM for the shoulders.. this might be just individual for me but i've looked at tons of olympic lifter pics and alot of people do that too.. so try that..

but basically, use the broomstick approach, every workout, use a light barbell or rod or something, and practice the form/spread/going deep.. thats what i do now.. it works your core hard even without much weight.. and it's a great way to warm up for your workouts, really gets you huffing and puffing.

as for urls etc.. i learned it really in a milo article and just searching inet and looking at snatch pics. because it basically is a snatch grip squat.

so definitely be smart with that lift, g'luck man that's a hard lift to conquer!

peace

[priznr]

also forgot something important: if you lack ankle flexibility in that lift, it'll be extremely hard to perform deep.. so, put something under the heels if you want to get your butt on your calves.. that really helps.

[David_wigren]

The problem for most people when trying the "snatch squats" is that during the squat they lose balance and try to compensate it with pushing the bar forward wich stress the shoulders and could very easialy lead to injuries.

They say that the best way is just to keep at it with just the bar without added weights until you feel secure and the balance is no longer an issue. Simple just until you don't feel the strain in your shoulders any more.

This wont take long at all. Just a couple of weeks and after that it shouldn't be a problem anymore

[David_wigren]

You could also try the "seated snatch presses" I don't know the exact name for this exercise. But what I mean is that you simply perform a half snatch press and stay down at your lowest possible seat (this will be very hard if you lack the flexibility), none the less it will be hard flexible or not. And during your seat you perform behind neck presses with wide snatch grip. Start with just the bar you will realize that it will be pretty heavy with just the bar.

This exercise is really great to strenghten your neck, shoulders and elbows

[porky]

practice with a broom stick at home everyday

[Starkmann]

practice with a broom stick at home everyday

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Yeah I have started doing that every day for the last three days. Yesterday I also did it at the gym using these fixed weight sticks they use for aerobics. It only weighted 18 lbs. but I feel like it was a much mor legit motion. I'm gonna keep practicing with each at least once if not twice a day.

[honk]

Maybe some stretching for more shoulderflexibility would help.

My shoulder are pretty flexible and so I had no problems when I started with overhead squats. I had a good teacher thats always important IMHO.

[Starkmann]

I have wondered how much of it is a flexibility issue for me. I am remarkably inflexible. I have been trying to do some pilates and the like to improve.

During todays attempt with the broom stick I found myself leaning forward much more that neccessary. I tried to really focus on sitting back into it. I found that my tibia anterialus (Totally misspelled, the muscle on the front of my shin) was working really hard to keep me upright. I don't know if this makes it anymore clear to anyoe else what my issues may be.

Thanks so far, I have a long way to go.

[honk]

Keeping ur back upright is all the deal unless u are as flexible in ur shoulders and spine like some worldclass weightlifters.

[Luke Whippo]

Mike, try also doing "drop snatch" with the broomstick, place the broom on your shoulders and get a wide grip use the legs to drive it off an just squat down, remember to keep the head all the way through, the bar should be in line with the upper back, I found this method to be a great teacher.

[climber511]

First, what shoes are you wearing and how much heel do they have? The use of a heel is not just helpful but often mandatory to perform the movement at all. Olympic lifters wear those shoes for a reason. The Overhead Squat is somewhat of a "test" exercise - it will quickly show you weak areas of strength and flexibility in ankles, knees, back, shoulders, wrists etc. I started out with a piece of 1" thinwall conduit (same theory as broomstick but longer) with taped rings to mark the inside length of an Olympic bar. I started doing dislocates with an extremely wide grip and worked my grip in closer and closer until I was within the range of the inside collars. This will help the shoulder flexibility and help over come all those bench presses you've done that tightened up your shoulders so much. If your shins are getting sore, it means your body is trying to pull your knees forward over your feet which allows your hips to move forward as well. This position puts your body sort of under the bar and in balance. I'd also suggest doing front squats as the full butt between the heels squat is necessary for OHSs. Push the front squat, not for weight but for proper position, with as upright a back as possible. My guess is that along with the shoulders; you need to learn to squat Olympic style or "between" your feet" - this bears no resemblane at all to a power lifting type squat and is it fact completely different. This flexibility will help at least as much if not more than the shoulder work. As an experiment, try doing the OHS with your heels on a 2x4 and see if it helps, You may find the issue is as much lower body as upper.

One last little tip is don't try to half squat - the worst body position during the OHS is thighs at parallel - move thru this position and straight to the bottom position of the squat where you will be in better balance due to the more hip forward position. Then on the way up, move quicky thru that middle position into the more biomechanical efficent positions.

[underdawg]

You've got some great advice here. The only thing I can add is check out Dan John's website. He's got some great pointers on the movement. It's a tough exercise, but it's done more for my flexibitlity than any amount of stretching.

Just something to think about, some people's marker for being strong in this movement is BW for 15 reps!

[Starkmann]

Luke - I will try that. Is this a lift you are familiar with. If so I may have you watch me, even with just a broomstick, next time I come up ( I was thinking jan 8).

Chris - Shoes, lowtop Chuck Taylors. Not quite olympic shoes but, lacking a heel. I love these things. If anyone reading this does heavy squatting and doesn't understand the value of them Go to Zappos.com and buy a pair, they are only $40 and comes in lots of looks. Try them out for lifting, they are worth the $40.

For the rest of this I want to add some info and hoepfuly get a little feedback from you. I do have the tight shoulders from benching (how do you ever guess? ). How narrow would you consider a fully develioed OHS grip? I have also been meaning to ask about foot placement. You are coorect that I tend to take a wider than normal stance, letting my knees flair out. I figured this was incorrect. I figured it was more of any olympic style squat. Do you think it is more of a habit issue or and issue of some kind of flexibility issue? I do find some tightness in my achilles and ankles. I suppose the best method here is to practice narrow squats unloaded and do the standard wall stretches. Any other thoughts?

The between your feet thing, I think I have seen that referenced my Dan John so will try to check his site and see if I can learn. It is basically the idea that the body is "slung" between the legs and you should sink the body lower between while bending the knees, if I recall. I think the 1/2OHS issue ma resolve itself as I work on these other issues.

John - sounds like good thoughts and an incredibly challenging goal. I can barely power squat that.

All - I have not been updating this as much as I should. The only real change is that I did not do these yesterday. I took the day off because after a tough day of squatting I was really sore. The other change was a mental one that I noticed caused a change in my form. I have been reading Pavel's Naked Warrior. He teaches the Pistol, a type of one leg squat, in it. One thing he talked about was trying to activtivly pull your hips in, forcing them to fold up rather than just giving into gravity.

I think that covers it all for now. I will definitly go check Dan John's site. I will keep working on it and keep checking this thread. Thanks for all the info.

[climber511]

Try another pair of shoes for this one lift - YOU ARE NOT DOING A POWER LIFTING SQUAT ANYMORE - this is an Olympic lift and CHUCKS SUCK. Now I love my Chucks as well but they simpley are no good for this or any Olympic lift. Do me a small favor and just try it please with a pair of boots or shoes with heels(about 1" or so) - trust me on this one please. Let us know what happens.

[Starkmann]

Glad to try. What qualifies? regular running shoes?

[climber511]

Running shoes are soft and "mush" out - try some work shoes or boots with a stiffer sole and heel.

[underdawg]

Dress shoes with a small heel works well too.

[Starkmann]

Dress shoes with a small heel works well too.

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Damn, all my dress shoes are either slingback or 2" heels or more.

[underdawg]

Make those overhead squats Fabulous!

[Luke Whippo]

Luke - I will try that. Is this a lift you are familiar with. If so I may have you watch me, even with just a broomstick, next time I come up ( I was thinking jan 8).

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Jan 8 should be okay, yes I use the overhead squat as a warm-up exercise for every session, I drop into the overhead squat by doing a "powersnatch" or "drop snatch", I feel this exercise gives me a great burst of energy and flexibility for my heavier training, (bring the shoes over (if you get them) and we'll work on it).

I read that 15reps with bodyweight also I only hope to get at least 1rep with my bodyweight by the end of next year 2006:D

[Starkmann]

thanks Luke. I look forward to getting my ass kicked again.

[shootinfor3]

Stick your chest out and "expand" your chest. Don't rotate your shoulders too far foward, this tends to happen if the bar is too far back. Try to keep your shoulders back. The bar should be directly over your head. As you go down, move the bar slightly foward and as you go up, move the bar slightly back. This might help keep your balance. And of course always keep the arms straight. Rotating your elbows foward or back can help find the right spot.

hope this helps...works for me so far