George Jowett feat?

[1stCoC]

I had a nice conversation with Randy Strossen today and told him how much the Little Big horn tool felt like a real anvil. I personally like it and if you cant get an old anvil this will do a good job filling the bill. He was kind to mention he had me in mind when he developed the piece .Yeah,it's money well spent.

[Sybersnott]

That seals it for me.  I'm getting one!  :p

BTW... did ole Randy decide to develop the LBH because of the various posts about anvils and anvil lifting on this forum?  Makes me wonder....

[Roark]

Mike Graham, who has temprary custody of the Jowett

anvil sent me some photos of the anvil, and the exact measurements.

As soon as I can get these on disk, I'll email them to

Wannagrip who has agreed to post them- probably in the

May 3rd edition of Iron History, and no doubt at the Gallery.

To whet the appetite:

The anvil weighs 168 lbs.

Overall height: 11"

Overall Length: 24.5"

Length of base: 12.25"

The round part of the horn where one could grasp is 6.5" long

and 4.5" from the tip of the horn the circumference is 8.5"

which is 2.70" in diameter.

From 4.5" to 6.5" from the tip of the horn the circumference

expands to 10.5" or 3.34" in diameter.

So two matters to ponder: Was this the anvil that was featured in the photos of Jowett lifting a 168 lb anvil, and at

what point along the horn did he grasp it?

One thought: Lifting an anvil by the horn and holding the top

of the anvil parallel to the floor is similar in form to a Weaver

stick lift, although of course was does not pause in this position while cleaning an anvil.

Quite frankly, after Mike provided the photos and measurements of the Jowett anvil, I am convinced that

the only way any man could clean this anvil with one hand

is to use a brush and some good solvent.

[Bill Piche]

Quite frankly, after Mike provided the photos and measurements of the Jowett anvil, I am convinced that

the only way any man could clean this anvil with one hand

is to use a brush and some good solvent.

AAHAHAHAH! Joe, I continually come back to thinking you missed your calling as the stand up comic for the strength world!

[Sybersnott]

Today, I pulled 150 pounds on my "anvil lift".  This is a 50 pound anvil, with 100 pounds of weight on it.  It came up rather easy.  I am ready to try the Jowett anvil.... bring it on!!

I haffta agree with Roark on this one - cleaning it would be something I'd pay to see.  Just lifting it would be a challenge!  :p

[Roark]

Sir Snott,

Comparative thinking. The anvil weighs four pounds less than the Inch. If the globes on the Inch could be slid together, so

that the 4" handle were protruding from one end, does anyone

really think that there is, or was, a man who could have

grasped the Inch so formed and brought it to the shoulder,

even with the 4" shorter length involved, hence better lifting

leverage?

unknighted Joe

[Guest baldy]

Joe, basically you are saying a 2.38" vertical bar clean with 172 lbs total weight, right? I think that some people here have the grip to do it. Jim and Tou pull some really huge numbers on a 2" vb according to their posts here. Richard Sorin or David Horne too, no doubt (I haven't seen the exact weights for them).

The overhead portion would still be a whole new story. My 54 lb anvil is very simple to clean, but pressing it is by the horn (for me) is more awkward than twice that weight on my IDB. If the anvil was pressed by the flat face that is one thing, but pressed by the horn? It would take some David Horne style wrist strength to handle that (IMHO).

[Roark]

I believe they deadlift on the V bar, not clean it, right?

And we can all deadlift more than is cleanable.

[Guest baldy]

Yes, they deadlift it on the vertical bar lift. But they are deadlifting 100+ lbs more than the weight mentioned (172 lbs). I think that Jim and Tou were both doing around 300 lbs on a 2" bar. Richard and David would do more. Therefore I feel safe saying they "have the grip to do it". In this case "it" would be the Inch DB handle and 172 lbs scenario you described. The Jowett anvil would be much harder because of the taper, though I think all of them could at least convincingly deadlift it.

However, there is obviously more than grip issues here. Just because you can hang on doesn't mean you can clean 172 lbs to your shoulder, especially loaded in such an awkward fashion. Then there is the overhead by the horn (here talking about the anvil, not the Inch scenario), which (IMHO) is out of the question for 99.9999% of people.

I hesitate to say anything is "impossible", but it is surely improbable. I am sure that many would look at Richard Sorin's 100 lb anvil and say it was impossible to put it overhead, but he has snatched it. I don't think that many people will repeat that feat either.

[Roark]

The men you mention would be capable of lifting the Inch

bell composed the way I described. In a V bar lift- they could

add many, many pounds to the Inch and V bar lift it. No doubt

in my mind.

But that is not the issue.

No one has correctly lifted 25 lbs on the Weaver stick movement. But even children can hold 25 lbs on a Weaver stick in a V bar fashion (I know the length of the stick would

require climbing a ladder or somesuch to avoid resting on the

floor). The difficulty comes when the movement goes from V

to horizontal. At that point the children, and world class grip

masters will be humbled by the 25 lbs.

I have a 96 lb anvil, and I can deadlift it with one hand- hardly world class (hardly neighborhood class), but my point

is, when I make ANY effort to bring the anvil away from the

hanging-straight-down position, I can hear it laughing, because entire sets of other muscles must come into play

against the newly imposed torques.

Regarding the overhead press part of the anvil lift, the Jowett

anvil is 4.25" wide at the flat part which would be against the hand. Balance as well as inordinate amount of strength would

be required for success. Plus, unlike a 'bar' implement where

half the weight is above the hand and half below, in the anvil

lift all of the weight is about the hand making for incredible

torque factors.

Just try this experiment. Make up a V bar lift. Go to your

maximum deadlift. Now using that same amount try to clean

it. You will fail. Next, decrease the amount of weight on the bar, but still using the V bar technique, try to clean it. How

much weight must you remove from your maximum V bar lift, so that you can have a successful clean?

Obviously, the shorter the V bar the more chance you will

have at success, but for this experiment use 24" for the bar length. Let's say you can V bar max lift 150 lbs. I estimate you

will not be able to clean 40 lbs on a 2" bar.

By definition it is impossible to V bar clean the amount that you can V bar deadlift. Let me know if you try this.

[AP]

could a person lift the anvil in the vertical manner and shrug hard- kind of a vertical bar high pull? if you could pull the anvil high and then catch it somehow you would not have to weaver it out parrallel to the floor which is what seems most impossible. how you could catch it would be the hard part- you may be able to bear hug it in your arm and shoulder but you'd probably have to watch out for your head! also a person could even dip down into a full clean so that they would only have to pull the thing about lower-chest height.

if someone can deadlift 300+ on a handle that's shaped *exactly* like this dumbell, i think they could clean it...

That's not to say that jowett could have...

[Sybersnott]

Roark,

Did Jowett ever reveal his training method to lift that anvil like that?  I'm pulling 150 pounds on a 50 pound horn, and it's a dickens to get up!!  And that's just deadlifting it off the floor!!  Then.... he cleaning it AND pressed it overhead?  Huh?  I'm I missing something?!?  ???

[Guest baldy]

Joe, I think that I have not been clear at what I have been getting at. Regarding the The 4 people I mentioned: I stated that I feel they "have the grip" to clean the Inch in the configuration you described. Nothing more, nothing less. I did not state that they can clean the weight on a barbell, or a dumbell, or a vertical bar, or an anvil, or a barbecue grill, or a 1964 Chevy Impala, or anything else. David is still working on getting the Inch to his shoulder, and that would be much easier than what we are talking about here. I don't think David's grip is the weak link there either, I think he "has the grip" to do that too. I think he is just working on the technique, and getting the rest of his strength up to speed for that movement. We seem to be talking about different things. The guys on here who do deadlift lockouts with over 1100 lbs "have the grip" to deadlift at least 900 lbs. However, that does not mean they have the total body strength required. Tom Black recently told the story about some guy lifting a large amount on his IDB (160 lbs if I remember) but failed a suitcase deadlift of 185 lbs on a normal Olympic bar. That guy clearly "had the grip", but lacked the body power. Hope that clears up my side of the discussion.

As for your experiment: I am about to send you a private message on that. I cannot deadlift 150 lbs on a 2" vbar, though.

I also think that AP is on to something, no surprise since he trains and competes Olympic lifts. I think there is a lot in the technique.

[Guest baldy]

Joe, I had a nice message all typed up and your inbox was full. I will get back to you later.

[Roark]

Baldy,

Sorry about the full inbox; those fitness women just won't

leave me alone! Or, I could have forgotten that 'sent' messages count on the total...

Please try again when you have time.

Joe

[Sybersnott]

Question for the all-knowing Mister Roark...

Where in the book, "Of Might And Muscle" does Jowett talk about cleaning and pressing the anvil by the horn?  I can't find that reference anywhere.  Thought you could help....

Side note:  if you're "Mister Roark", can I be Tattoo??  :p  :p  "Look Boss, de plane, de plane!!"  :p  :p  Er, better yet.... I'm happy with "Sir Snott"!!  

[Guest RobbyTooSlobby]

I would also like to mention that it is pretty cool how he got dressed up in a shirt and tie to lift that anvil.  One of the dick clark good groomer grippers to be sure    

[Roark]

Sir Snott,

I don't have that book filed, so I would have to scan it to

determine if he mentions it. You have already done that, and

I don't have the time right now. He was not known for specific

details in regard to his lifts and claims. As I recall, he does not

even mention the weight of the anvil, does he?

The other two questions that are relevant:

1. When did photos first appear of him lifting the anvil?

2. Did he claim to have done this lift only once (and a

  photographer just happened to be handy)?

[Sybersnott]

Robby,

Jowett probably had the whole "suit-and-tie" bit set up just for taking the pics - he's in street clothes, and therefore it is more impressive than being in workout clothes.

Roark,

The book is "The Key To Might And Muscle".... and Jowett jumps from one point to the other.  He mentions lifting the anvil (c&p) by the face, but he doesn't say he cleaned and pressed it by the horn.  At least.... I haven't found that reference in the book.  Uh, maybe it's in another book - one that I don't have.  He wrote several.  The search continues....  

[Roark]

Sir Snott,

His books are not on my 'must have' list.

Some would describe his writing style as

'roman a clef'.

Good luck in your search, though.

[Sybersnott]

Roark,

I'll keep you posted if I find anything interesting.  It was a book that I got because I wanted to find out more about Jowett, instead of reading about him through third parties.  Plus, the book has some really cool pics of strongmen at the turn of the century!!  Anyhow, I'll see what I can find.  

[paul valpreda]

I think Jowett was being unclear on purpose, like our friend Mr. Inch. Look at all of the confusion he creates! This way he didn't have to be an all-out liar by clearly stating something that he couldn't do.

[Tyrannosaurus Dave]

Someone asked about Jowett's training method.  I read in an old magazine that he claimed to have apprenticed as a chain-maker, which back then meant adding and closing the links one at a time with pliers while holding the rest of the chain with tongs or pliers in the other hand.  Kind of a blacksmith type job.  Sounds effective to me.  Apparently, he claimed this made him quite an arm-wrestler, as well.

[OldGuy]

Read what Chas. A Smith had to say about Jowett. He knew the man in person. He has a series of letters posted on the Naturalstrength board. He mentions Jowet in some of them such as this one.

http://www.naturalstrength.com/features/casmith/chas2.htm