mikebuck Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 I have seen a few people talk about folding nails on here and I was just wondering what that meant. I have done a few searches on it and cannot find anything. It seems from the few times I have seen this mentioned that it is considered cheating. Is this the general opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Folding is bending. There are different styles of bending. Try them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebuck Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 I did find a thread on this very subject. Bending versus folding, a special subforum. September 17, 2004. Now I understand a little better. Any information on the differant styles would be appreciated. I have read the article on the Deasel site so I know about DO and DU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Folding is bending. There are different styles of bending. Try them all. ← Folding is bending using Old Guys terminology. Folding is not bending using Brookfield's and my own terminology. There is thus no straight answer to this question. Try styles other than double overhand if you want to put the emphasis on wrist/hand strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Folding is the optimal technique for using full-body strength to bend a nail for most people. Because of the high hand positioning and the angle of exersion onto the ends of the nail, most people can transmit power through their body to influence the nail best this way. Jedd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbjr Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Funny, whether you bend or fold you end up with the same product.....A BENT NAIL....... Double OH just happens to be the most efficient tech out there to bend a nail...Mikeal is right on about other styles requiring more wrist strength. Is it considered cheating? By some yes, the majority of us I think would say no... But most of us benders dont compete, we just do this stuff for fun. We all know that DO is easier than other techs, it allows us to bend bigger and badder steel than ever thought possible before... Try several different styles, maybe pull a Praydis and come up with your own style, but have fun with it, otherwise whats the point.....Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 I am going by the dictionary definitions of folding and bending. Brookfield means nothing to me. He is not a board member, and does not compete, so who cares what style he uses? I myself am stronger using the DU method, so why on earth would I adopt a way that was harder for me? I do not put my shoes on the wrong feet to make walking more challenging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 I myself am stronger using the DU method, so why on earth would I adopt a way that was harder for me? I do not put my shoes on the wrong feet to make walking more challenging. ← I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say. I do understand the shoe bit though. I am glad you like the DU style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeP Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 MikeBuck, I think most people define folding as taking an extreme grip at the ends of the nail and just pushing on the ends. You can do this with good wraps but not rags. The other extreme would be holding your hands together at waist level and bending with pure wrist strength. That is what most people do when you ask them to bend a nail, and they fail Personally, I have found I do better with my hands nearly touching, hands high on the chest, and about 50% push/50% bend down with the elbows. This seems to get it going best. If I just push on the ends of the nail I can't get it to start and if I just bend with my wrists (also known as Slim style) I can't do anything. Even Slim told me when he first bent a 60d like that, The Mighty Atom told him "nobody can do it like that boy" and showed him how to do it DU. He said it felt akwayrd and since the "you can't" comment pissed him off, he bent it with pure wrist strength out in front of his body. The Atom said he had never seen anybody do that before. To each his own. BTW, I also bend DU and I can easily do G8's DO and do G5's DU, so I'm not too far behind. Haven't tried anything harder DU for awhile, I'll give it a try and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamidon Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Folding is bending using Old Guys terminology. Folding is not bending using Brookfield's and my own terminology. There is thus no straight answer to this question. ← Well maybe you know Brookfield better, but his words appear on the IM Red Nail certification page in the article about the Red Nail and how to bend it. He clearly mentions that it is legitimate and that it puts more emphasis on other muscle groups. He also mentions that the double overhand was also one of Charles Atlas's 10 feats of strength. So it is not clear to me that you are correct in your assumption that John Brookfield agrees with you. Please show me where he has recanted his statements about the article written by him on the IM site. Try styles other than double overhand if you want to put the emphasis on wrist/hand strength. ← This I can agree with, each style hits your wrists in a different way. I remember you once said that the way to get rid of DO was to use shorter bars, if you disagree with me that you said this I will take the time to find your post. I do believe that you were partially correct when you said this, as you use the double overhand to get shorter bars you increase the dependency on your wrist to get the bar bent. When I show someone how to bend I try to show them to use as much wrist as humanly possible on each bend. As their upper body gets stronger, their bending gets stronger. As their wrists get stronger their bending also improves. This is much more efficient than just letting one set of muscles do all the work. Last, I would like to mention that you portray yourself as an expert on bending. I am unclear as to what your qualifications are to be such an expert. Organizing a contest and writing the rules does not exactly make you an expert. I do NOT consider myself an expert either. I do consider David Horne, Pat, and others to be experts and they have not publicly supported your personal opinions. People have agreed that there is varying levels of wrist involvement, this I also believe. Perhaps if you were to tell us your current bending capability we can decide if in fact you are a decent bender in your own right. You use derogatory comments about the bending style that I use, you once called it an "abomination". As if bending the way I do is a personal insult to the history of bending. Please see if Mr. Atlas would be horrified by what I do. You go ahead and setup your contests the way you like, I have no negative feelings about that. I like that most contests have different rules, it makes it interesting. I think anyone who sets up a contest can set the rules as he wishes. I am just tired of listening to you make it seem as though bending a 4" red double overhand is not impressive. That it would be an abomination, or that it takes no wrist strength. If it is so easy, try to beat me. Otherwise tone down your argument, set your rules the way you like, and stop insulting me, and those who BUST THEIR ASSES bending steel you couldn’t dream of moving. Greg Amidon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 (edited) ....He clearly mentions that it is legitimate and that it puts more emphasis on other muscle groups. ......So it is not clear to me that you are correct in your assumption that John Brookfield agrees with you.... It's legitimacy depends on the rules in place. Maybe I am wrong about Brookfield's usage of the term "folding". That is possible I suppose. Last, I would like to mention that you portray yourself as an expert on bending.... That is your oppinion. I have never stated that I am an expert on bending. I like to discuss it, yes, but no one forces you to read it. Why do you worry about what I have to say about bending styles? ....I do NOT consider myself an expert either.... I am glad to hear that, considering you bent steel for less than a year. ...If it is so easy, try to beat me. Otherwise tone down your argument, set your rules the way you like, and stop insulting me, and those who BUST THEIR ASSES bending steel you couldn’t dream of moving.... What I do or don't is not for you to decide. I will try to make it to the DieselCrew's GGC 2006 if it is held that year so that you have the chance to beat me in a full on grip competition. That would probably please you and surely would not be much of a challenge for you. Edited March 25, 2005 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMunger Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 (edited) eh, to hell with it. Buh bye. Edited March 25, 2005 by CMunger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 WOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeGripper Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 For me, folding is harder because I lack the shoulder flexibility to keep my arms high under my chin - when I get past the initial kink via DU, I assume a semi-fold position, but it is at mid chest height because if I pull my arms higher it feels like my shoulder will be hurt and I can't generate enough power. Do I wish I could try folding - yes, but would I do it exclusively - no. Just as with the article by Greg and Dave, it pays to develop strength in both styles if you can, and why would one be worse than the other? As kerbjr, you end up with a bent nail either way, and as long as you're not bracing during the bend you're getting the same effect either way. Every lift for the most part has its degrees of variance, so why can't bending in a different style still be legit even if it isn't the one that everyone else prefers? Maybe we need to set up bending organizations like in powerlifting where everyone can dictate their own preferred rules: Bender 1 - "My organization only allows single-wraps!" Bender 2 - "Well, mine's better because they don't allow DO folding!" Bender 3 - "I'm a raw bender - no padding, no folding, only bending at waist level!" :D We can make this as silly as we want it to be, but to me, a bend is a bend no matter how you do it. As for Greg not being an expert, I'd say that anyone who has destroyed 100 reds in one sitting is enough of an expert to give advice my way any day. 'Nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Styles Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 I personally found my shoulders are not robust enough to withstand starting a bend with double overhand. My body is much happier with a reverse grip for the initial kink, switching to double overhand for the crushdown only. When I started I couldn't bend a white. My best bend either way was a Yellow, using 2 shop rags for pads. I bent for about 4 months before stopping. I quit because either way, crushing the nails down is painful on my hands and hurt my grippers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorGrip Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Well it appears that bending styles are very near and dear to people around here. Greg if you haven't bend bending for a year and are performing the feats of bending you do, then if you can't be considered an EXPERT BENDER then you should damn sure be considered a PROFESSIONAL BENDER in my book, maybe you don't perform a strongman act but you have accomplished some awesome things and are always willing to help the newbie as well as the accomplished alike. So thanks for what you bring to the board. My 2 cents: If people want to bitch and whine about someone’s unbraced bending style as being an abomination or insinuate that a certain style make it so easy it is almost cheating. I say if they don't like the fact that others are running right up their tail pipe as far as being close to or even bending the same material they are bending then change to their style to the abomination style and you should be able to bend light years ahead of them and secure your position as the top dog for a while longer. This is basically a bitch fest because their egos are hell of allot bigger than what they are bending and they don't like the fact that with hard work others might be able to equal or overcome their level of bending. If it is within the parameters of a contest that only a certain bending style be used fine, but don't expect everyone at home or even other contests to (BEND YOUR WAY) to gain your approval. I guess bending styles are like assholes everyone's got one and theirs is their favorite of course, but don't be wiping off others. Let them use whatever technique they want to use and worry about keeping your own ass clean. Man I hate it when someone jumps in a post and says something they know will draw in the drama then stands back to see what happens, then claims innocents when someone calls them a shit stirrer. Some people just like to be controversial just to make themselves appear unique and get some attention good or bad they don't seem to care as long as eyes are on them: angry: By God Greg I hope you accept this challenge and squeeze some of the cockiness out of those self-proclaimed bending purists. Of course you will never win fair and square in their eyes because again you may not have used their style. Better yet use thier style and whoop thier ass at thier own game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Some people believe Gamidon to be the best nail bender there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Man I hate it when someone jumps in a post and says something they know will draw in the drama then stands back to see what happens, then claims innocents when someone calls them a shit stirrer. Outstanding Gator! Yes Greg is and expert bender as well as a huge list of fellas on this board. Unless your John Brookfield you have no business pissin' and moaning about how people bend. Hell, even Brookfield doesn't piss and moan, he just said it was harder down at waist level. -HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamidon Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Some people believe Gamidon to be the best nail bender there is. ← I honestly appreciate your kind words but I would hate to drag this there... There are soo many great benders on the board that trying to identify the top dog is going to create bad feelings. Erik M, Pat P, Steve M, Dave M, Clay E and others all have strengths and weaknesses. I don't think I could pick any one of them as the best each has special strengths that I am VERY impressed with. Mikael I am not hinting that you are an easy person to beat in a competition. Your hand and wrist strength is terrific, and your Vbar is very impressive to me. This is about how you say things about the double overhand style. If you don't like it that is great, but you take every opportunity you can to say it. You continue to spiral up the venom in your argument and insult people for what they are passionate about. I could care less about a wrist strength competition. If you care so much about it have a weaver stick competition. You have taken the term steel bending to somehow be only an indicator of wrist strength, when in fact wrist strength is only a portion of the movement. Scrolling steel does not overly tax the wrists but it is still bending steel. I honestly believe that if you try to double overhand a 3.5" 60 penny nail you will agree that your wrist is the limiting factor. My avatar is a 3.5" 60D and the nail was actually a manufacturing mistake so it actually has a point on it not cut to 3.5" I am not saying any of this to impress you for I know it will not. The truth is that as you progress in double overhand, eventually wrist strength becomes the limiting factor. The strongest benders will have great wrist strength. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebuck Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 Mike P, thanks for your description of folding. This is what I was looking for. It seems this is my preferred style of bending. Ever since the NOS III I have been ate up with bending. I still have the grade 5 that you gave me and it is still straight as an arrow, but not for long. I have gone through quite a few grade 2 bolts and every now and then I can bend 6"X1/4" crs. BTW I can also bend grade 2's DU. I can tell I am getting stronger at bending as well as my technique is progressing. As I have read from most of you on the topic of bending, it is indeed addictive. Thanks to everyone else for all of the information you have given me in this thread as well as on the whole board, I have learned a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 By God Greg I hope you accept this challenge and squeeze some of the cockiness out of those self-proclaimed bending purists. Of course you will never win fair and square in their eyes because again you may not have used their style. Better yet use thier style and whoop thier ass at thier own game! ← Why don't you step up to the challenge yourself and all the rest of you who complain so bitterly that I don't fancy your precious DO bending. Many of you would beat me in bending if DO is allowed and you should (I would hope) be able to use this hand and wrist strength to pulversive me in an allround grip competition. I am more than willing to travel to DieselCrew's GGC next year to give you all a glorious opportunity to prove a point. I am 42 years old and weigh 180lbs. Sweet victory is at hand for you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Some people believe Gamidon to be the best nail bender there is. ← ....This is about how you say things about the double overhand style. If you don't like it that is great, but you take every opportunity you can to say it. You continue to spiral up the venom in your argument and insult people for what they are passionate about..... ← No, I used to take every opportunity to argue against folding as a good test of hand/wrist strength but not anymore. Most of the insults are actually done by the people who object to my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Mikael- Once again, you have managed to ruin another interesting thread. I don't think people care about beating you in a comp. Hell, most probably don't even care about competing. We are hear to learn and spend time in a pursuit we all enjoy: Grip. What people don't care for is you piss poor attitude. You have great ideas and we all share the same passion. Why do you have to always bring this up? We all know your view, you have every right to 'em. Nobody is trying to change your view and we all agree that bending at the waist is harder. Let it go man. -HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Mikael-Why do you have to always bring this up? ← Once again. I used to bring it up on a regular basis but not anymore. Ruin interesting threads? People used to find these threads absolutely irresistible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 I'M DONE WITH THIS! I WASH MY HANDS OF THIS! I've updated my sig. -HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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